January 29 US Army helicopter / American Airlines Crash in DC | Medical plane crash in Philly
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Absolute non-event and sensationalist nonsense to even report about it. Go-arounds because another aircraft wasn't able to expedite its takeoff is something that happens dozens of times every single day.
Spot on, media scaremongering at its worst
NTSB preliminary report is out:
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Documents/DCA25MA108 Prelim.pdf
As a result of the preliminary investigation two urgent recommendations regarding helicopter routes have been issued to the FAA (as the NTSB itself does not have the authority to order anything),but they don't mention what exactly they are. If it's not a secret maybe you could ask your uncle, @Carolina Red ?
edit: scratch that, found it: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AIR2501.pdf
The two recommendations are:
A part that I found quite remarkable is towards the end:
And apparently helicopters regularly exceeded their altitude restrictions in these events, and the majority of these events was at night. From the recommendation report:
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Documents/DCA25MA108 Prelim.pdf
As a result of the preliminary investigation two urgent recommendations regarding helicopter routes have been issued to the FAA (as the NTSB itself does not have the authority to order anything),
edit: scratch that, found it: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AIR2501.pdf
The two recommendations are:
A part that I found quite remarkable is towards the end:
More than 15200 seperation incidents between helicopters and commercial planes, eighty-five of them extremely close calls with less than 1500 feet horizontal and less than 200 feet vertical seperation, and yet nothing changed. It's almost a miracle it took this long until it bit them in the arse.
And apparently helicopters regularly exceeded their altitude restrictions in these events, and the majority of these events was at night. From the recommendation report:
Last edited:
https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/northeast-philadelphia-plane-crash-ntsb-report/
https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/199630/pdf
The CVR likely hasn't been recording for years.
https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/199630/pdf
The CVR likely hasn't been recording for years.
The real scandal, which the article doesn't spend a word mentioning, is how many of those stupid wankers grabbed their bags before evacuating. They're risking the deaths of themselves and others to grab their junk.
An engine fire is very scary for sure, but apparently not scare enough for those folks.
You know it takes like 3 seconds to grab a backpack, right?The real scandal, which the article doesn't spend a word mentioning, is how many of those stupid wankers grabbed their bags before evacuating. They're risking the deaths of themselves and others to grab their junk.
An engine fire is very scary for sure, but apparently not scare enough for those folks.
Even if it takes only three seconds, that's three seconds too many. That's not considering stuff getting in the way, straps are snagging on seats and other obstacles, etc. And I bet you anyhting you want that plenty of those bags were grabbed from the overhead compartments, taking way longer than "three seconds" to grab while blocking the aisle.
So kindly feck right off with that "it's only three seconds" hurrdurrdurr - it's an emergency, the aircraft is on fire and people have been ordered to evacuate - explicitly without taking any stuff. Risking people's lives for replaceable material crap is not acceptable.
Absolutely spot on, they have endangered the lives of fellow passengers and the crew
Hear hear. And 3 seconds isn't just 3 seconds. That's causing a delay for each and every person behind it. And that's assuming no one else grabs anything - which clearly happened too. Anyone who s gone through any kind of emergency training knows every single second is one too many.
Yes things can change in a split second and grabbing some of your stuff in a such a scenario really needs to be drilled out of the general public. Be it in a burning plane, building, coach or train...
However I find it a lot more interesting that these people are sent onto the wing of a burning plane, why weren't they evacuated via the slides the other passengers used to evacuate? Seems a bit more critical than the bags.
However I find it a lot more interesting that these people are sent onto the wing of a burning plane, why weren't they evacuated via the slides the other passengers used to evacuate? Seems a bit more critical than the bags.
Everyone who evacuated with a bag should be put in do not fly list permanently.
If you watch the video, they got sent out onto the wing and kind of just left there for a few minutes because they had no way off the burning plane.
I would have thought that a more dangerous part of the whole thing that some fo them grabbing their bags.
I would have thought that a more dangerous part of the whole thing that some fo them grabbing their bags.
Two things can be wrong. Like the burning engine incident a month ago or whatever it was (wasn't that in ATL?), there are some serious safety lapses in American aviation lately.
From what I read and see in images there were problems with the slides. For some reason only the aft right slide could be deployed, which is really bad because a) it's on the side of the burning engine, you would normally really want to use the slides on the opposite side, and b) it takes unacceptably long to evacuate the entire aircraft via just one slide. So opening the overwing exits on the side opposite to the fire was the best option available to get the aircraft evacuated quickly.
The 737's wings are relatively low to the ground (which is also why the overwing exits don't have slides, unlike for example the similarly sized but taller A320) and the wing opposite the fire is a pretty safe location to be while somebody fetches some stairs to get people off. And if push comes to shove, it's not so high as to be truly dangerous to slide off from, especially if ground crew help catching people.
So overall, no it's not unsafe (unless people do stupid shit like trying to climb down via the engines) and I'd say it was the safest option in that moment. Why only one slide was deployed, and on the side of the burning engine on top of that, certainly needs to be looked at of course.
Yup, absolutely. Flying is a privilege, not a right, and if they can't play by the rules and think their handbag is more important than people's lives, then they don't deserve that privilege.
That it can be done differently was shown in the A350 accident in Japan last year, where a way larger aircraft with 367 passengers aboard was evacuated with nobody bringing their luggage with them, which investigators stated to have been a huge factor in how quickly the aircraft had been cleaned out of people.
I get your point but you can't expect people to just turn off their instincts.
hurrdurrdurr
The Japan Airlines A350 incident proves exactly the opposite, the reality is that some people are just self-centered and full of entitlement
Japanese have a different mentality. I'd say this "let me grab my stuff" instinct would kick in in all western countries.
Would take generations of compelling the American population to have a fraction of the order and politeness of the Japanese, especially in emergency scenarios.
No doubt it would but of course it'll never happen
True but "self-centered and full of entitlement" is equally true - as someone else already said, the people who do this should be put on no-fly lists, flying is a privilege not a right, if you can't abide by the rules you don't get to participate
As an airline pilot, the grabbing of stuff really fecks us when trying to safely and calmly get people off a plane in an emergency.
Trying to grab your stuff from under your seat or the overhead bins slows things way down. Smoke inhalation becomes extremely problematic the more delays we encounter. It doesn't take much to sap all that oxygen away and you pass out. Now, in extremely low visibility we have to walk the cabin. Having someone lying on the floor unconscious without oxygen can turn this into a fatal rather quickly.
So kindly, get up, leave your stuff and listen to the direct commands of the flight attendants. You'll get all the stuff back in an insurance payoff.
I have learned my lesson.
Regarding the original topic of the thread, the FAA has now announced some more corrective actions:
Furthermore they are reevaluating other charted helicopter routes in cities throughout the country.
https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-statement-ntsb-recommendations-dca
Furthermore they are reevaluating other charted helicopter routes in cities throughout the country.
But it's not 3 seconds. If it's a fit and able youngish person that has quick access, then maybe. But hundreds of people are all grabbing stuff while there is smoke and fire. Some older people getting in the way. Some dropping stuff. Some idiots arguing because one idiot is panicking and threw the other idiot's bag on the floor. Some people are going against the flow of people because their bag is not in the locker above their head. It all turns into chaos and it's no longer 3 seconds. If there is a fire and smoke and Im trying to get my kids off the plane and some idiot is standing in the way rooting around the locker then there might be some shoving and shouting involved
It's also additive; not all people grab their bag in the same 3 seconds. The people furthest from the exits might be delayed by minutes. It's similar to a traffic jam.
Damn, even airplanes suffering from obesity.
US investigators say Alaska plane was overweight for icy conditions in crash that killed 10
https://apnews.com/article/bering-air-crash-unakleet-nome-alaska-5238e35540135e7f7ee7f14e4dfbc86b
US investigators say Alaska plane was overweight for icy conditions in crash that killed 10
https://apnews.com/article/bering-air-crash-unakleet-nome-alaska-5238e35540135e7f7ee7f14e4dfbc86b
This is the absolute key point. And you can maybe argue it isn’t immediately intuitive. But I bet if you played through a few evacuation scenarios with some people collecting their bags, you’d get some really significant delays.
Full preliminary report here: https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/199662/pdf
Almost a thousand pounds overweight is just... wow. That's some incredible overshoot, and I can't imagine that the pilot wasn't aware of it. It's not even that the pilot had to remember to decrese the maximum take-off weight due to icing - according to the prelim it's the same number as for non-icing conditions. And the aircraft did carry a mobile scale to weigh the cargo. No way he went almost half a ton over his maximum without knowing.
Happy to read this being done as well. Especially in places like NYC it seems like it could be a disaster waiting to happen as well. The proximity of three larger airports is already kind of silly.
I tell you what's really weird in NYC, being in the observation deck of the Empire State building and seeing airliners flying past you that are lower down than you are!
Or seeing a big ape climb past you!
Speaking of observation decks. ...last time I was there I went up the renewed top of the Rock in town by myself for a short time and spent the entire time guzzling reasonably affordable beers (by NYC standards) while standing there watching golden hour happen before me. Magical. Now I want to go back and just do that again.
The ape was well before my time
The Golden Hour is real special, I've seen a few times, another memory there that I don't wish to repeat is I once walked down, there was a problem with one of the main elevators and they told us we could walk down a few floors to avoid the over-crowding, me and my mates just kept going, (as did a few others) I was young then, it'd kill me if I tried it now!
Helicopter crash in Hudson River kills all 6 aboard
Six people died when a helicopter crashed into the Hudson River Thursday afternoon.
The incident happened at around 3:17 p.m. near the Holland Tunnel ventilation shaft in Jersey City, not far from River Drive South and Newport Parkway, near the Water's Soul sculpture.
New York City Mayor Eric Adams said three adults and three children were killed, including a family of five from Spain and the pilot. Their bodies have been recovered, he said.
"Our hearts go out to the family of those who were on board and all six who were on board of the helicopter," Adams said.
CBS News New York has learned that five of the six victims are Siemens executive Agustin Escobar, his wife, and their three children, ages 4, 5 and 11.
Six people died when a helicopter crashed into the Hudson River Thursday afternoon.
The incident happened at around 3:17 p.m. near the Holland Tunnel ventilation shaft in Jersey City, not far from River Drive South and Newport Parkway, near the Water's Soul sculpture.
New York City Mayor Eric Adams said three adults and three children were killed, including a family of five from Spain and the pilot. Their bodies have been recovered, he said.
"Our hearts go out to the family of those who were on board and all six who were on board of the helicopter," Adams said.
CBS News New York has learned that five of the six victims are Siemens executive Agustin Escobar, his wife, and their three children, ages 4, 5 and 11.
Gearbox failure?
No idea why people get on Helicopters unless they have to for work reasons. I hate going offshore on helicopters
I saw the video of that last night, bloody terrifying.
It looked like the chopper had lost its rotor, it was upside down.
It looked like the chopper had lost its rotor, it was upside down.
Two American Airlines jet have had a minor collision on the ground at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport - just three months after a deadly crash near there.
The Federal Aviation Administration said the wingtip of one aircraft struck another on the taxiway on Thursday afternoon. Six members of Congress were aboard one of the jets.
The Federal Aviation Administration said the wingtip of one aircraft struck another on the taxiway on Thursday afternoon. Six members of Congress were aboard one of the jets.