It's the same people who strangely rate Welbeck more than they rate Sturrudge, despite the latter's season. Start talking about intangible attributes like "intelligence"
Javier Hernandez | 2013/14 Performances
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1. Yes he has, but he's not been able to maintain a level of consistency that you would want from a centre-forward. It was only in 10/11 that he showed that he can lead at a decent level for us. Why did Fergie play Welbeck ahead of him in 11/12? Why did Van Persie play ahead of Welbeck in 12/13?
2. This isn't true at all. Welbeck isn't overrated or underrated on here. Welbeck does offer more than Hernández. He has better link-up and hold-up play, is a better passer, has a better touch, and contributes more to our overall play. Why did Fergie not start with Hernández against West Brom in 11/12? Why did he persist with an inferior goal scorer in Welbeck? Limiting football to merely goals scored is ridiculous IMO. What about the games when your centre-forward has an awful touch and can't hold the ball up to good effect? Do we hope that he somehow gets on the score sheet? Look at Giroud, for example. He has been poor for a few months now - you risk attacks breaking down because of these players.
3. Which team wouldn't want Hernández bar your Barcelonas? He's a great squad player to have. If he's managed properly, you can get 20+ goals out of him every season. He's a lethal poacher and every team in England (I imagine) would want him in certain circumstances. Most people know what he's capable of.
4. That's the point of the argument. Teams are looking for better players. Watch Mandzukic this season and you'll know exactly why Guardiola doesn't rate him highly enough. Bayern Munich had a classic poacher in the form of Gomez. They upgraded to Mandzukic (pressing genius). Now they're upgrading to Lewandowski. Real Madrid had Higuaín, who is a better finisher than Benzema, but that didn't stop Mourinho from opting for the latter. Hernández is inferior to Welbeck and Van Persie in elements that we need him to be strong at consistently. If he had shown a good level of consistency this season, he would have started more games.
Too good to be a perpetual reserve, not good enough to displace the players in front of him regularly. It'll be a shame if he goes but we have to be fair to him if he does want a chance at playing every week.
I'm sorry but to compare Ole to Hernandez is unfair to Hernandez himself. Ole's finishing was miles better than Hernandez and he also has better ball control. When he was at his peak, he was like an ox on the ball, Hernandez has been playing in England for 4 years(?) and he still get barged down easily. When we played Ole on the wing he showed us that he actually has a wicked cross on him. What does Hernandez offer outside of the box? Granted that Hernandez's play outside the box has improved a lot ever since he came here, but lets face it, it is still not United quality.
Hernandez's attitude really fits our club's image, and I'll definitely keep him if possible. But he's not the starter I'd want for team challenging for honours.
Hernandez's attitude really fits our club's image, and I'll definitely keep him if possible. But he's not the starter I'd want for team challenging for honours.
Against Villa Hernandez came on and offered what he always does: movement and purpose. The other strikers all have something on him, but not one moves with that cutting edge he does--not one. Javier injects verve into the side, and that's something we've all been desperate to see this year.
I think we need to consider what starter is in the modern game for a top club. Bar next year [and horror of all horrors, the next couple few years] United need quality depth that can kill off mid and lower-table opposition without relying on the top starters. If the tactics improve, that's absolutely Hernandez--and yes, Welbeck too. He'd only grow to the point he could push the starters, that healthy squad competition the club needs.
He's unquestionably a talented player with upside to go yet. It'd be a real shame if the club cut bait with him at this point.
I think we need to consider what starter is in the modern game for a top club. Bar next year [and horror of all horrors, the next couple few years] United need quality depth that can kill off mid and lower-table opposition without relying on the top starters. If the tactics improve, that's absolutely Hernandez--and yes, Welbeck too. He'd only grow to the point he could push the starters, that healthy squad competition the club needs.
He's unquestionably a talented player with upside to go yet. It'd be a real shame if the club cut bait with him at this point.
I'll miss Chicha if he goes, there have been some great memories. If he wants more football (understandable) and we can't give it to him, then he needs to go.
That said, I've found myself groaning at times when he's come off the bench. Welbeck is almost always a better option. I think Hernandez's overall play is far too inconsistent, and not good enough to be quite honest. His poaching is superb and it will get him goals wherever he goes, and is always a great option to have in any squad in the world.
That said, I've found myself groaning at times when he's come off the bench. Welbeck is almost always a better option. I think Hernandez's overall play is far too inconsistent, and not good enough to be quite honest. His poaching is superb and it will get him goals wherever he goes, and is always a great option to have in any squad in the world.
Apart from the top clubs then.
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I'll wish good luck at his future club and hope he plays well in another league (preferably La Liga). I would hate to see him score vs us for another english club. His services have been well and truly appreciated.
The difference is we've not exactly got a wealth of talented wingers to displace the likes of Young and Valencia. And you're being disingenuous I've been saying for ages that he's simply not good enough to start up top for us. That's based on my observation...that doesn't mean folk who don't rate him are sheep. He'd do great for a club outside the top four(he he he...).
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Purely in the 22 matches the two have started as a pair, Welbeck has scored 12 and Rooney 23. Which also gives lie to the notion that Rooney can only be prolific when there's no other striker around. They've also combined well several times after one or the other was subbed on. Just this season they got five minutes together against Swansea, and Rooney set up a Welbeck goal, and they got half an hour together against West Brom and both scored. They very clearly bring out the best in each other, and in the attack as a whole.
And anyone who can't see that Welbeck is a vastly superior footballer to Hernandez is at least a little deranged. I love the guy, but he's a finisher, not a footballer. The best thing would be to keep both, one to start and the other on the bench (with some variation based on form and opponent), but if the club aren't willing to force Chico to stay and continue in that role then what can you do.
edit: I'm willing to bet Hernandez has scored in a substantially higher proportion of his substitute appearances than Ole. There really hasn't ever been a player like him for it that I can think of. And that's been a vital weapon for us in recent seasons, which we really ought to be loath to lose.
Is the correct answer. Welbeck, Kagawa, Hernandez and Rooney all got shafted to varying degrees by that signing, and we even managed to score less goals and win the exact same number of points.
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The opposite. A vastly superior footballer to Hernandez would be Iniesta, not Danny fecking Welbeck. "Bambi on Ice" anywhere inside the box.
That's last season's stereotype, mate.
Bold claim, but there's a good argument that its true. When we finished level on points and behind on goal difference, every Red I knew thought that our midfield was the problem.
Of course the fact that Fergie thought that another striker was the answer is probably part of what made him such an exciting manager.
RVP has nothing to do with Welbeck or Hernandez. Welbeck has played a lot of games in the last two seasons. Granted sometimes on the wing, but he's also moved infield during the games.
Hernandez for me isn't a top tier striker. If we get £15m-£20m in the summer for him then we should take it. Behaved like an idiot this season on social media and his celebration at the weekend summed it up. And to think people were calling him a model pro and saying how he doesn't say anything whilst sitting on the bench for Fergie.
He was given chances, when RVP and Rooney were injured. Did nothing whilst Welbeck went on a scoring run.
Hernandez for me isn't a top tier striker. If we get £15m-£20m in the summer for him then we should take it. Behaved like an idiot this season on social media and his celebration at the weekend summed it up. And to think people were calling him a model pro and saying how he doesn't say anything whilst sitting on the bench for Fergie.
He was given chances, when RVP and Rooney were injured. Did nothing whilst Welbeck went on a scoring run.
Chances? I don't think Hernandez has started two games in a row all season.
Won't be too bothered if he goes. He isn't good enough to play more often for us, and if he's making waves about wanting a move then there is no way we should stand in his way.
I really think that it is almost impossible finding non-United fans who rate Welbeck higher than Hernandez. The only reason Welbeck is so overrated here - rated higher than Chicharito FFS - (almost as much as Cleverley before people realized that he isn't that good at all) is because he is an academy player.
How on Earth is Welbeck overrated, half the forum want him sold every single time he goes 90 minutes without scoring.
Get real, there are lots of things Welbeck does better than Hernandez. I like Chich but the only real thing he has over Welbeck is that he is a better finisher. It's pretty daft how you moan about people overrating him and then proceed to significantly underrate him yourself. Both Ferguson and Moyes have preferred Welbeck to Hernandez for United.
Welbeck is rated higher because he's a better footballer. There's nothing more to it than that. I don't think there's a manager at a top club in Europe that would plump for Hernandez over Welbeck. Welbeck as a striker offers goals plus so much more. Hernandez struggles to trap a football week after week.
If that was the case, then half of Caf would have wanted him sold every game in last season.
Comparisons with Henry, him better than Sturridge (that only recently has stopped) and him better than Hernandez are just some of the things he has been overrated. He is a decent player, but nothing special. His all round game is still very bad, and his composure (while better this year) still isn't on the right level. I am pretty sure that half of Europe would go for Hernandez on the summer, while I really doubt that any big club would go ever for Welbeck.
I just don't understand why Hernandez isn't happy to stay as a super-sub with us. He literally was close to quitting football, and now he plays for Manchester United, where he's loved by the fans to a ridiculous level. Despite somewhat mediocre talent, late-development and a laughable first touch, he has a solid role as 3rd string striker for one of the best clubs in the world.
Why wouldn't he be alright with that? He's not good enough to be a starter for any 'comparable' teams to United.
Why wouldn't he be alright with that? He's not good enough to be a starter for any 'comparable' teams to United.
Welbeck's all round game is excellent and far better than that of Hernandez. What are all the things you think he does wrong?
This should give him negative points
Ferguson preferred Welbeck over Hernandez only in 2011-2012 season (when Chicha didn't have a rest because of the Cup in North/Central America, missed the entire pre-season and then got injured in the beginning of the season). Even in that season it was more a sharing position rather than Welbeck a starter and Chicha a sub. Last season Chicha was certainly preferred on the striking position.
Neither Hernandez or Welbeck are that special. One is quite limited (e.g Hernandez who is a top finisher but not much else) and the other STILL struggles to stay on his feet much of the time when receiving a pass and doesn't have much composure in front of goal.
If one wasn't home grown and the other a smiling little Mexican we'd all have near the top of our "If I were a gay..." lists, they'd be in for some fair criticism the pair of them.
If one wasn't home grown and the other a smiling little Mexican we'd all have near the top of our "If I were a gay..." lists, they'd be in for some fair criticism the pair of them.
I have no idea how people that apparently watch United play can come to this conclusion.
Your point about his all round game is simply odd, but the stuff about his composure is funny in light of him being one of the best finishers in the league this year.
Because he hasn't been used as a super sub. He has barely used even when we had RVP and Rooney injured. If Moyes would have used him as much as SAF then I guess he would have been happy.
His first touch is still a bit shit, he has no idea to use his body in order to defend the ball, his composure isn't good, his long range passing isn't that good. It is a myth that his all round game is that good. The only thing he excels in all round game is short passing and doing pressure on the opposite team.
In 2011-12 Welbeck was absolutely fantastic with Rooney - indeed the most significant positive was how he complimented Rooney and brought the best out of him. He was in that side out of merit, not because Hernandez was tired.This should give him negative points
Ferguson preferred Welbeck over Hernandez only in 2011-2012 season (when Chicha didn't have a rest because of the Cup in North/Central America, missed the entire pre-season and then got injured in the beginning of the season). Even in that season it was more a sharing position rather than Welbeck a starter and Chicha a sub. Last season Chicha was certainly preferred on the striking position.
You're not serious. Hopefully.
Hernandez played much more on the second half of the season than in the first half. In the first half Welbeck almost didn't have any competition because Chicha was either tired or injured. And despite Chicha played less than him, they still finished with the same amount of goals.
I've never understood this. He's not rated highly because he's an academy player, I refuse to believe that. Look at his misses against Chelsea, Everton, and Cardiff for example. Lots were abusing him. This forum isn't full of Welbeck supporters, it's split up fairly IMO. Why did Fergie play him in 11/12? He does so much good for the team. He holds the ball up better, links play better, better dribbler, better touch, better passer, better control, and more likely to contribute to something outside the box. Hernández is a poacher who lacks very good technique - that's why he's not started many games since his début season. One criticism of Moyes I do have - with regards to the treatment of Hernández - is why he hasn't started him more in a system that encourages crosses?
Watch this video:
I feel like people who don't think Hernandez is that good really undervalue what he does. Yes, he's a pretty poor player overall, but he is a striker that scores goals consistently for club and country, and that's what strikers are meant to do. It's actually amazing how many goals he has scored for us without ever really being a first choice player, and sometimes without really getting good service either. A good club that really valued Hernandez and played him consistently could get 30 goals a season from him
It wasn't my opinion, mate, it was a statement of fact. Top five for goals per minute, top five for chance conversion, top five for shots to goals. Danny's failing is not getting into the box enough, which is partly his fault and partly the fault of managers playing him out wide or often not at all.
It is still not a big sample to give him the 'one of the best finishers in the league' label. He is joint 17 on terms of goalscorers in this season.
I literally said he'd only been so this year, you even bolded it in your own post.
Edit: Yeah. If you can't tell the difference between a highlights reel from a whole career and one from a month you're clearly not worth the hassle.
Edit: Yeah. If you can't tell the difference between a highlights reel from a whole career and one from a month you're clearly not worth the hassle.
I know he is a better finisher, Hernandez will always score more goals than Welbeck because that is what his game is centred around. Welbeck is the complete opposite, he's a player who starts because of his impact on others. Gaz was absolutely spot on in his analysis after the Pool game and the difference that Welbeck had against Olympiakos, his workrate and movement is constant and most importantly he makes selfless runs - the type which drag defenders away even when you don't get passed the ball. We need someone like Welbeck in our side, he is vital in stretching the defence and allowing others the space to play properly.
He is also just simply a better footballer than Hernandez. Although Chich has improved considerably in this respect Welbeck is much better in possession. He's a better dribbler and a better passer.
I do think Welbeck is overrated on here, hilariously so by some, but I do think he is having a good season and he has looked generally good when he has played.
He would score goals, but would the team be better as a result of those goals? Or, would less goals and a better footballer contribute towards better results? I'd argue the latter.
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