In fairness zionism is an enemy of peace because it requires the violent displacement of people
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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Not true.
Zionism requires/d the displacement of people. Unless you live in a fantasy universe in which every single one of those people willingly moved/ could be paid off/have their land purchased etc, then that displacement will have to be coerced. This is done through force.
Can only assume that level of response reflects the level of thought put into it.
The argument that the Zionist project could ever have been implemented without disruption to the peace is in the same ballpark as Mogg and Boris claiming Brexit would be easy. The British very quickly realised that within a decade of announcing its intent.
I'd agree Burgen is an idiot who shouldn't discuss these matters though. We all have to pretend that party of British history doesn't exist especially politicians.
This forum would never side with zionism in the manner it happened if done now.
I support Israel’s right to exist. Do you?
Let’s not forget why Israel was felt to be necessary.
Yes, but not their current right wing government and methods which are open for criticism.
Israel's Current Right-wing government has learned a lot from the Nazis.
Not a helpful or constructive comment.
As unpalatable as it is to hear, Isreal is dabling with facism.
Firstly. I am not anti-semitic.
But I have serious problems with the current Right wing government and what it is doing. They have forgotten their own history of Jewish persecution.
By their acts they are promoting even more acts of terrorism around the globe.
Innocent people are paying the price with their lives.
It always ends well when things start out like that.
It's the sort of comment we need to be careful about making, because a lot of anti-semites will use harsh criticism of Israel to mask their own anti-semitism, but there have been plenty of instances where the Israeli government have utilised fascist rhetoric. The tweet below, for example, is like something straight out of a fascist handbook:
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cannot look back.
Both Israelis and Palestinians have a right to be there now.
They need to get to a peace process. But that's not going to happen with Trump is it?
Both Israelis and Palestinians have a right to be there now.
They need to get to a peace process. But that's not going to happen with Trump is it?
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True politician of the people right there...
tweet doesn't exist.......
Diane Abbott necking a mojito on the bus.
As it stands of course, it's original formation? Probably not, I'm not religious and so I'm not persuaded around claiming religious land. I don't think many liberals would if criticising zionism didn't have a backlash.
From the British side it was deemed neccesary due to needing a sphere of influence in the region. It was only a good bit later that it became more about fleeing the persecution across Europe and the British limited such immigration while it remained under our control. We actually turned boats back.
If there was a push now for another group of people who wanted to claim an area anywhere for themselves due to religious reasons and it required displacement of peoples there wouldn't be a single vote at the UN supporting it and no one would pretend it could be peaceful. So your question of supporting Israel's right to exist now is a completely different matter to the point i was trying to make, prehaps badly
My knowledge on the subject is limited, but according to it, it was the other way around: Religious motives only played a minor part in the formation of modern Zionism (Herzl was a decidedly secular Jew, for example), and their upsurge in mainstream politics is a later development. Afaik, modern Zionism was in essence about the political emancipation of the Jews through a national movement, which was seen as the only solution to escape the antisemitism that didn't disappear in the developing modern societies (as it was hoped for), but simply modernized along with them. Actual religious Zionism - while always having been a minority branch inside the spectrum - developed into a major political player much later, well after the foundation of Israel.
That's just based on what I came to know, and it may well be missing something. Corrections are appreciated. In general, I think this is one of the subjects on here that suffers the most from a lack of actually informed knowledge (as I said, myself included), with the gaps getting filled up in all kinds of ways.
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(For anyone wondering...https://www.timesofisrael.com/enjoy-your-bread-uk-labour-in-passover-faux-pas/)
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Relentless assault what a fecking idiot
Agreed, a pretty idiotic response and extremely unhelpful.
feck me the ott response to the passover message makes our football forum look calm and considered. Anything to keep Teresa May in power I suppose.
Bad faith response from people acting in bad faith
It’s hard to tell whether some of these rich right wingers grossly misinterpreting tax rates are full on sociopaths willfully trying to con the public, or just idiots with so many dodgy lawyers and accountants they haven’t so much as looked at a tax return in several decades...
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Slightly off-topic but Bernie was asked, in full seriousness, by a Harvard student:
"Your free college plan is popular. But it is based on taxes. Once we graduate, if we get good jobs, won't we be paying taxes?"
4D Checkmate
the best and the brightest
I reckon if you just rebranded certain high end taxes as “Elite Executive Membership fee” or “Platinum band Fellowship dues” a lot of really rich idiots wouldn’t notice them.
Alan Sugar is right wing? I always thought he was a Labour Party supporter.
He is a Labour peer, just goes to show one of the most capitalist businessmen in the country forgot this to become a Lord.
Also, wtf is that Tweet? The man is an idiot.
Labour takes clear lead across 10 Westminster polls
Sometimes I have to remind myself that the UK still has nobility. The Black Death got rid of almost all of ours, and we never got around to making any more. Lord Sugar must be the prime argument against the idea of the superior nobility.
The lead somewhat masks a fall in Labour support though. Support for both parties has been falling steadily since the start of last year, when they'd both been averaging over 40% for 6 months. The twists and turns of Brexit means that each day's headlines can hurt one party more than the other, so they take it in turns to take the hits. At the moment its the Tories, given the extension to A50. But I think increasingly we see that Remainers and Leavers are each unhappy with both parties' positions, and its hard to see that changing. Wouldn't surprise me if both parties kept falling a few more points in coming months.
He's not really nobility in the sense of being aristocracy though, he's a lord because was made one during his lifetime. In a way I think it makes his political stances worse as they come through wilful ignorance rather than a lack of experience. His views on class politics and social mobility are entirely rooted in vanity; he wants to believe that his achievements are entirely and wholly down to his own skill and hard-work and therefore unilaterally denies that peoples' lives can be influenced by factors outside of their own control. From that point his logic is easy to follow; "I've become so rich on the back of my own work and nothing else. Therefore everyone should be able to achieve the same and if they haven't they're lazy and if they're complain they're lazy and jealous"
Unfortunately, facts get in the way. His working-class childhood experience sounds positively utopian today. His parents rented a council property in London for the equivalent of £100-200 quid a week in today's money and were able to raise 4 kids on a single, modest income. A family of 6 attempting to do similar in any part of the country today, never mind in London, would be in severe poverty. The time when you could leave school at 16 and walk into a Civil Service job is long gone, as are the days when an average income would leave you enough money to start a business after living costs. The days of a relatively small company being able to carve out a significant slice of an emerging market by undercutting their competition with low quality products are long gone and if he'd come through in the marketplace of the 1990s or 2000s he'd be no-one now. He's a dinosaur with no understanding of normal life, and who isn't willing to try and learn because it would bruise his ego.
"My parents are paying for my college but I don't want to pay for others by paying any extra taxes."