Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

[MikeUpNorth]

They have only been given refugee status which is temporary

Yes, but Merkel didn't acknowledge this until the end of January, which was a major blunder.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-seekers-that-German-refuge-is-temporary.html

 

[Frosty]

So in your opinion it's fine for MPs to go against the memberships will but it's not okay for the elected leader to put in place MPs who align to the mandate he was selected on? That's a ridiculous position to take

If Corbyn wins again then it's time for a party split. Let the wider electorate decide

What is ridiculous is this proposed return to the 1980's days of Leftist infighting and ideological purity.

First, I would question what exactly the 'membership's will' is. All members? Or just those which turn up to the CLP meetings? What exactly does that mean? Secondly, constituency parties have always been able to select and deselect members if they so wish. likewise, MPs, as representatives, have always been able to exercise their consciences independently of instructions from constituents. Are we really wanting MPs to follow the idea of a nebulous 'will of the members'? If that was the case no Tory MP would have voted for same-sex marriage.

Second, a leader of a political party is not a monarch. He or she cannot simply appoint acolytes to follow his or her whims.

Labour supporters were complaining from the rooftops about Blair and Brown's use of the Whip to stifle dissent. This is exactly the same thing. It opens the door for the faithful to staff key positions and dictate policy. Recall by-elections? For what reason? This opens the door for punitive measures against any who do not tow the leader's line.

If the Labour Party fractures then we return to 1983 and the SDP split, except that instead of ushering in 15 years of Tory rule, it will likely usher in 25.

 

[Mozza]

Yes, but Merkel didn't acknowledge this until the end of January, which was a major blunder.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-seekers-that-German-refuge-is-temporary.html

That was their status all along, not just from January. The war is Syria has been going on for for 4 years, who knows how much longer it will last. Temporary in this case could be 5+ years.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

That was their status all along, not just from January. The war is Syria has been going on for for 4 years, who knows how much longer it will last. Temporary in this case could be 5+ years.

You're being deliberately obtuse. I'm talking about Merkel's acknowledgement of the limits of their refugee status, or rather the lack of acknowledgement until it was too late.

Her shift in tone at the start of this year has been widely discussed in Germany and is seen as a blunder, so I don't see why you're pretending there's no issue with how it's played out. You asked what Merkel could have done differently, and that's your answer.

 

[Mozza]

You're being deliberately obtuse. I'm talking about Merkel's acknowledgement of the limits of their refugee status, or rather the lack of acknowledgement until it was too late.

Her shift in tone at the start of this year has been widely discussed in Germany and is seen as a blunder, so I don't see why you're pretending there's no issue with how it's played out. You asked what Merkel could have done differently, and that's your answer.

It would not have changed the number of refugees coming signifcantly. There war has been going on 5 years. Your clinging onto a minor matter like its the answer to the refugee crisis

 

[MikeUpNorth]

It would not have changed the number of refugees coming signifcantly. There war has been going on 5 years. Your clinging onto a minor matter like its the answer to the refugee crisis

We were discussing how to mitigate the negative reaction from the public to accepting a large number of refugees. Explaining their temporary status and the reluctant short-term necessity in taking large numbers of people would have been a much better PR approach than her initial 'open door' explanation of the situation.

 

[decorativeed]

I just saw the Vice documentary. And I cringed. It is not a competent Leader's Office.

regarding de/reselection:

Tim Bale, a politics professor at Queen Mary University of London, has carried out a survey of Labour members and registered supporters who signed up after the 2015 general election, as part of a research project into party membership, and he has found that the newcomers are not particularly active. Here’s an extract from his paper.

"What is fascinating, however, is that if Labour is to win, it may have to do it largely without much practical help from its new members and registered supporters. Confirming the complaints of many a Labour MP and ward secretary, the newbies might talk (and tweet) a good game, but they don’t necessarily turn up to do the hard yards.

Just over two-thirds of Labour’s post-GE2015 members and supporters (68%) have retweeted, posted or forwarded a message supporting the Labour party on social media and nearly nine out of ten (88%) claim to have signed a petition on behalf of the party. But only 15% of them have participated in door-to-door or telephone canvassing of voters or helped out at a party function, and only 28% of them claimed to have delivered leaflets. Indeed, some 63% said they had put in no time at all on behalf of the party during recent local, mayoral and devolved elections.

Finally, 61% of Labour’s new members say they have never attended a party meeting – which could mean that MPs worried about their obvious enthusiasm for deselecting those hostile to Jeremy may have less to fear than they might think."

The bolded part really pisses me off, to be honest. As a member, I get countless messages inviting me to events and meetings - primarily at weekends. Do you know why I can't go and help out? Because I'm fecking WORKING! Working in one of my three jobs that has no guaranteed hours or even paid sick leave, never mind holidays! That's why I'm a member of the Labour Party, paying my subs so that people can campaign on my behalf. I'd imagine the vast majority of new members are in the exact same boat.

 

[decorativeed]

In terms of the EU referendum, it's unclear what Corbyn's personal views are, though his campaigning was pretty pitiful. It seems likely that he supported 'remain' because it was what the majority of the party wanted, and then his poor performance can be put down to either his lack of media skills, his personal disaffinity with the EU, or his poor campaigning abilities. None are really positives.

Can anyone name any Labour MP who prominently campaigned for Remain? I know Alan Johnson, how many can the average member of the public name? Especially during a campaign that 80% of the print media was on the side of Leave, giving far less prominence to the remain side? It's easy to single out Corbyn as the leader, but where were the rest of the Labour Party over the last 6 months?

 

[Gambit]

Problem is, No Corbyn and a return to Neo Liberal Blairite Labour and we will guaranteed, end up with the Far Right taking over.

 

[Penna]

The bolded part really pisses me off, to be honest. As a member, I get countless messages inviting me to events and meetings - primarily at weekends. Do you know why I can't go and help out? Because I'm fecking WORKING! Working in one of my three jobs that has no guaranteed hours or even paid sick leave, never mind holidays! That's why I'm a member of the Labour Party, paying my subs so that people can campaign on my behalf. I'd imagine the vast majority of new members are in the exact same boat.

I feel a little like you - although I'm retired and so (theoretically) have lots of time, for all sorts of reasons I don't go out that much and I don't have lots of time. When I was young, I was an activist. Now I just field endless requests for money from the Labour Party.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Can anyone name any Labour MP who prominently campaigned for Remain? I know Alan Johnson, how many can the average member of the public name? Especially during a campaign that 80% of the print media was on the side of Leave, giving far less prominence to the remain side? It's easy to single out Corbyn as the leader, but where were the rest of the Labour Party over the last 6 months?

Labour don't have many big hitters left who can get column inches. The party basically made the mistake of disowning all the successful cabinet members from the Blair/Brown era rather than embracing them as 'party grandees' who can help to sway opinion in the media and give some shine to the new crop.

 

[Badunk]

He really needs to be making speeches all over the shop, letting people know what he thinks about everything under the sun. Get on Question Time, get on Graham Norton's show, get soundbites out there. I understand he's more left wing than recent labour leaders, but I don't really know what he stands for. I don't go out of my way to listen to Cameron, but I've got no choice coz he's everywhere. He's the PM, so I appreciate that he'll be in the news a lot, but so should the leader of the opposition.

Kinnock shouted from the rooftops. Blair used the media. It seems like Corbyn expects things to just fall into his lap without trying.

 

[Mozza]

We were discussing how to mitigate the negative reaction from the public to accepting a large number of refugees. Explaining their temporary status and the reluctant short-term necessity in taking large numbers of people would have been a much better PR approach than her initial 'open door' explanation of the situation.

But thats always been the case with refugees, she wasn't saying anything new

 

[Flamingo Purple]

Anyone got a source for the 2/3rd of Labour voters voting remain thing? Thanks

 

[MikeUpNorth]

But thats always been the case with refugees, she wasn't saying anything new

Well, Merkel belatedly realised her mistake, even if you don't.

 

[Rams]

Labour are in deep shit. It's getting to the stage where it might be a good thing if the party breaks up so that the left and center can start a fresh. The same could be said about the Tories. In fact the whole first past the post system needs rethinking.

 

[GloryHunter07]

Problem is, No Corbyn and a return to Neo Liberal Blairite Labour and we will guaranteed, end up with the Far Right taking over.

Disagree completely.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Labour are in deep shit. It's getting to the stage where it might be a good thing if the party breaks up so that the left and center can start a fresh. The same could be said about the Tories. In fact the whole first past the post system needs rethinking.

You can't succeed with a split in a first past the post system and it's not going anywhere soon.

 

[Rams]

You can't succeed with a split in a first past the post system and it's not going anywhere soon.

Depressing isn't it.

 

[Ubik]

So tomorrow is PMQs. Which was going to be absurd anyway. And now it looks like the SNP are going to try and become the official opposition

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I laugh but I'm crying.

 

[Shamwow]

Did everyone get this or just his constituency? Guessing everyone.

Dear Member,

I thought I should write to you about the recent events involving the Labour leadership, much of which you may already know from the very extensive coverage in the press.

You will probably know that a vote of no-confidence in Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership was passed this evening by Labour MPs. This is quite staggering news but as chair of the Parliamentary Labour Party I have to conduct our affairs in line with rules and precedence.

Margaret Hodge moved the motion at last night’s weekly PLP meeting which then led to the ballot today.

I checked back to the 1970s to ensure that both the motion was in order and that the ballot was properly conducted. I did not release the actual figures of the vote; these were leaked, by whom I do not know.

I did not vote as I must remain neutral, as chair.

I am not sure where we go from here. I would seem that a challenger might emerge in the next couple of days who will stand against Jeremy. In my view this would have been the more straightforward way of conducting things but I was not consulted by the motion’s supporters before they released it.

I will report to you again on future developments.

Best wishes,

John Cryer

 

[shabz]

Although Corbyn was voted in only last year, the change in the political landscape between now and then has been monumental. There have been and will be many casualties because of the referendum and not just in the Labour party. How many of the MP's who voted that they had no confidence in Corbyn came from constituencies/territory where 'Leave' was the majority vote? I'd be interested to see those figures.

 

[Smores]

Can anyone name any Labour MP who prominently campaigned for Remain? I know Alan Johnson, how many can the average member of the public name? Especially during a campaign that 80% of the print media was on the side of Leave, giving far less prominence to the remain side? It's easy to single out Corbyn as the leader, but where were the rest of the Labour Party over the last 6 months?

That's the hilarious thing because it was Hillary Benn and Angela Eagle who were the two prominent faces aside from Johnson and theyre the orchestrators of the revolt. They clearly take no blame for their failures in the campaign where they were both unconvincing.

 

[Shamwow]

The biggest challenge for the PLP won't be convincing Corbyn's supporters that there are better options - it will be trying to win back their trust. They've really gone and fecked this up.

 

[Penna]

Did everyone get this or just his constituency? Guessing everyone.

I've not had that. I am getting lots of emails from Momentum, though.

 

[Dobba]

Margaret Beckett, pro-bombing Syria, pro-Iraq War, anti-investigation into said war and who couldn't be arsed to stand against welfare cuts, is really sad about Corbyn. D'aww.

 

[Shamwow]

I've not had that. I am getting lots of emails from Momentum, though.

Are you a member of momentum? I never get emails off them.

 

[Ubik]

Piketty quits as a Labour economic adviser.

He is obviously now a Blairite neoliberal.

 

[Sweet Square]

Piketty quits as a Labour economic adviser.

He is obviously now a Blairite neoliberal.

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Although he was critical of Labour EU campaign, for what it's worth

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— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Smores]

Piketty quits as a Labour economic adviser.

He is obviously now a Blairite neoliberal.

You jest but it's incredibly naive to think they're not involved in this revolt.

People bang on about the power of Momentum but what never gets discussed is the groups that want Labour to go back to the Blairite vision, obviously only lefties have splinter groups huh?. Conor McGin Sky reported is one of the main individuals orchestrating the timing of the resignations for maximum effect , guess what he alongside Margret Hodge is part of Fabian that is full of blairites including Alistair Campbell. Alistair Campbell is also head of one of the PR groups that delivered the gay pride corbyn clip to the media.

The Labour MPs have not done this without significant planning as much as they'd like to just pretend it was a sudden matter of conscience.

 

[Ubik]

You jest but it's incredibly naive to think they're not involved in this revolt.

People bang on about the power of Momentum but what never gets discussed is the groups that want Labour to go back to the Blairite vision, obviously only lefties have splinter groups huh?. Conor McGin Sky reported is one of the main individuals orchestrating the timing of the resignations for maximum effect , guess what he alongside Margret Hodge is part of Fabian that is full of blairites including Alistair Campbell. Alistair Campbell is also head of one of the PR groups that delivered the gay pride corbyn clip to the media.

The Labour MPs have not done this without significant planning as much as they'd like to just pretend it was a sudden matter of conscience.

People of a Blairite persuation are of course involved. As are the Brownites. As are the soft-left. That's the point, it's everyone. Corbyn has the confidence of 40 MPs ffs, this can't be spun as "a handful of MPs" anymore, as McDonnell likes to. Blanchflower also left as an economic adviser because he doesn't want to be involved in the shitshow. Richard Murphy has basically disowned Corbyn. There's nothing left for him to lead. This is one of the few times where the Downfall meme is actually a pretty accurate representation of what's going on in his office.

EDIT - And now the person he appointed as shadow education sec the other day has resigned as well.

 

[Sweet Square]

You jest but it's incredibly naive to think they're not involved in this revolt.

People bang on about the power of Momentum but what never gets discussed is the groups that want Labour to go back to the Blairite vision, obviously only lefties have splinter groups huh?. Conor McGin Sky reported is one of the main individuals orchestrating the timing of the resignations for maximum effect , guess what he alongside Margret Hodge is part of Fabian that is full of blairites including Alistair Campbell. Alistair Campbell is also head of one of the PR groups that delivered the gay pride corbyn clip to the media.

The Labour MPs have not done this without significant planning as much as they'd like to just pretend it was a sudden matter of conscience.

Craig Murray with a great article on that https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/06/news-agenda-set/

Also looks like they where at it again at the protest a few days ago(Murray again) https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/06/another-media-setup/

 

[Drifter]

Pat Glass as resigned already.

 

[Sweet Square]

Pat Glass as resigned already.

Jesus.

 

[Smores]

People of a Blairite persuation are of course involved. As are the Brownites. As are the soft-left. That's the point, it's everyone. Corbyn has the confidence of 40 MPs ffs, this can't be spun as "a handful of MPs" anymore, as McDonnell likes to. Blanchflower also left as an economic adviser because he doesn't want to be involved in the shitshow. Richard Murphy has basically disowned Corbyn. There's nothing left for him to lead. This is one of the few times where the Downfall meme is actually a pretty accurate representation of what's going on in his office.

EDIT - And now the person he appointed as shadow education sec the other day has resigned as well.

You were mocking people for the mere suggestion of an orchestrated Blairite movement the other day. Obviously not everyone who's jumped is a Blairite and that term does get banded around without meaning as most are Brown allies as well however this is a planned action from then and people are going to hedge their bets in order to keep their jobs.

Nearly always this political manoeuvring ends up being public knowledge and when this does on top of the Chilcot report it's going to lose Labour support. Your opinion on Coryby aside, are you confident that a new leader will regain enough of the Scottish/UKIP/Leave voters?

I wish I was but I can't see anything but disaster here.

 

[Coxy]

Labour's appeal has to go beyond a the young and the middle class intellectuals of the left. They will be decimated in an election without broader left of centre appeal and much better leadership. Corbyn has failed. The reasons for failure don't matter. I'm sure, had he the right leadership skills to get Labour into being a proper opposition and contend for government, the PLP would have supported him.

 

[Shamwow]

Pat Glass as resigned already.

Ah feck.

Time for Corbyn to go. He's lost this battle. The membership has lost this battle. I think the only way we have a chance of getting a good left wing candidate in the next leadership election is if Corbyn doesn't run. Otherwise it will be Corbyn vs the "unity candidate", in which case either outcome will lead to disaster.

The people abusing Pat Glass on Twitter for resigning are cnuts .

 

[rcoobc]

This time last election cycle, wasnt miliband laying out an alternative proposal to every conservative idea.

I'm not sure I could name a single labour proposal right now

 

[Drifter]

Cameron even telling him to go.

 

[Sweet Square]

Ah feck.

Time for Corbyn to go. He's lost this battle. The membership has lost this battle. I think the only way we have a chance of getting a good left wing candidate in the next leadership election is if Corbyn doesn't run. Otherwise it will be Corbyn vs the "unity candidate", in which case either outcome will lead to disaster.

The people abusing Pat Glass on Twitter for resigning are cnuts .

No chance that going to happen either way. If Corbyn doesn't run then people will just leave the party and maybe more importantly he's the guy the Unions are backing, so they can't afford a loss, well they can but this would be a big one. And then after this mess the PLP(Most those on the right) will try their best to get the weakest left candidate possible.

Although that's my guess anyway.