Sparky_Hughes
I am Shitbeard.
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2008
- Messages
- 17,539
I'm not sure I follow?Once he starts buying them from his own pocket then maybe he'll have a right to do that. Up until that moment they're both employees of the club.
I'm not sure I follow?Once he starts buying them from his own pocket then maybe he'll have a right to do that. Up until that moment they're both employees of the club.
Without a manager having close to absolute power with in reason. You inevitably invent a culture in which the players have the power and they can easily turn on a manager who demands perfection and discipline from them. Allowing them to hide behind the manager when they under perform, safe in the knowledge the pressure is on him, never them.Why?
A manager is worth a lot less than even an average first team. There's no way a manager is worth more than a squad of 23 players who cost about 400m to assemble.
The cornerstone of SAF's reignfecking bang on, the players should be keeping the management happy not the other way round, gaffer ain't happy, you are on the bench. Gaffer still ain't happy, you are out of the door.
SAF drew a clear line in the sand, all of the players knew what was expected of them and if they crossed that line, very often there was no way backIf that's the case why is it that Fergie didn't use a one size fits all attitude in regards to handling his players egos?
Very true.Without a manager having close to absolute power with in reason. You inevitably invent a culture in which the players have the power and they can easily turn on a manager who demands perfection and discipline from them. Allowing them to hide behind the manager when they under perform, safe in the knowledge the pressure is on him, never them.
Easily revolting any time they don't have their way.
When players know they can NEVER be allowed to cross a manager. They all stay in line.
The principals are the same whenever someone tries to command a group. Authority comes from handling the power the right way.
And who judges the gaffer?fecking bang on, the players should be keeping the management happy not the other way round, gaffer ain't happy, you are on the bench. Gaffer still ain't happy, you are out of the door.
I agree with this but this is hard to implement at United. We have players who are way overpaid and we can’t shift them as no club are willing to give them the same wages. We’ve fecked ourselves not just with Sanchez but with offering stupid contacts to average players.fecking bang on, the players should be keeping the management happy not the other way round, gaffer ain't happy, you are on the bench. Gaffer still ain't happy, you are out of the door.
Yes dealing with players earning massive money and not really caring can be really hard. You can try to push them, but if they are not trying hard enough you can't do much. Bench them and let them play with the reserves I guess could send a message. I guess Mourinho did that with Bastian although strange he sent him there from the start.I agree with this but this is hard to implement at United. We have players who are way overpaid and we can’t shift them as no club are willing to give them the same wages. We’ve fecked ourselves not just with Sanchez but with offering stupid contacts to average players.
The CEO. It's just unfortunate we have a clueless arrogant chinless Chucky banker wanker jizz stain as CEO.And who judges the gaffer?
Not sure why. Maybe because we are not performing and they think that will help. Although Mourinho is that iron fist manager and it didn't work out that well.
Nobody's even saying that managers shouldn't be allowed to shout at players and you absolutely have to keep the players happy just like you should seek to keep the coaches, trainers, groundskeepers and other staff happy.
This reductive old-school nonsense has to stop. Why is it that people are so hard-up for some sort of autocratic regime where the manager rules absolutely with an iron fist?
Just like they took the former managers of Barcelona and Real Madrid seriously?Unfortunately, Ole has so far shown that he’s only really of any use as a cheerleader. No player at this level is going to take the former manager of Cardiff and Molde seriously when things are going wrong and he’s shouting at them.
What do you expect from a scouser? Absolute vile speciesAnyone hear this cnut before the game try and downplay Rashford's achievements?
'Everyone is talking about Rashford and what's he's done but Trents been doing charity work not just over the last month but for a while'
Fecking cnut
Thought the exact same thing.Anyone hear this cnut before the game try and downplay Rashford's achievements?
'Everyone is talking about Rashford and what's he's done but Trents been doing charity work not just over the last month but for a while'
Fecking cnut
He needs to think more about re-arranging his bookcases than downplaying the amazing work done by Rashford.Anyone hear this cnut before the game try and downplay Rashford's achievements?
'Everyone is talking about Rashford and what's he's done but Trents been doing charity work not just over the last month but for a while'
Fecking cnut
Racist.What do you expect from a scouser? Absolute vile species
The irony is that these certain antics which were common back in the day (ie drinking after training, throwing punches at team mates, going AWOL during a WC campaign) would ruin a player's career. Balotelli for example is considered a bad boy and a persona non grata in football and yet he's a boy scout compared to football legends such as Maradona, Gazza and Best. Players had become more professional rather then less professional. They are more aware about what to eat, the need to give their body a proper rest etc. Many employ their personal fitness team who work in tandem with that of the club. I remember the surprise back in the day of people like Giggs and Baggio doing yoga to keep themselves fit. These days such things are the norm.From what I've read, even many Liverpool fans struggle to get on board with John's views about a number of things.
His complaints mentioned in the early part of the thread just seem like yet another instance of 'old pro can't understand & doesn't like the behaviour of young pros' (see Souness, Keane et al).
Not sure I follow this logic. There was a joke about three guys attacked by a bear, two decide to take a stand, while the last one opts to run.The irony is that these certain antics which were common back in the day (ie drinking after training, throwing punches at team mates, going AWOL during a WC campaign) would ruin a player's career. Balotelli for example is considered a bad boy and a persona non grata in football and yet he's a boy scout compared to football legends such as Maradona, Gazza and Best. Players had become more professional rather then less professional. They are more aware about what to eat, the need to give their body a proper rest etc. Many employ their personal fitness team who work in tandem with that of the club. I remember the surprise back in the day of people like Giggs and Baggio doing yoga to keep themselves fit. These days such things are the norm.
Can you imagine the likes of Barnes or Robson doing yoga? This is the sort of professionalism they had back in the day
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/liverpool-legend-john-barnes-reveals-13985268
Asked if the verse was recorded in one take as the legend goes, Barnes told planetfootball.com : "I was p*****!
"How does anyone know, we were all drunk and just did it. It’s not a hard thing to do, is it?
Oh but it wasn't forgiven. In fact Napoli kicked Maradona out of Italy just as Gazza was kicked out of Lazio and that after he barely made any money there due to fines. There were standards in terms of professionalism back in the day as well and many British players in that generation broke them. From Rush who refused to learn Italian while playing in Italy right to blatant use of alcohol who used to shock any non British football journalist commentating on England games during World cups.Not sure I follow this logic. There was a joke about three guys attacked by a bear, two decide to take a stand, while the last one opts to run.
"You can't outrun a bear" they tell him.
"I don't need to, I just need to outrun you", he replies.
The level of football then and now doesn't make much difference, as what players then and now need to do is be at a better level than the majority of other players in the league. They need to work harder, smarter and have better attitudes than players now not in the past.
If a player has issues, but is still delivering it will most likely be overlooked. If the perfect professional is not delivering on the pitch, chances are they'll be shown the door.
Maradona did what he did, but it was forgiven because he was the best in the world. Ballotelli was not because it affected his quality.
What Barnes is saying make sense, a manager should be allowed to 'manage' his players. I don't see how that's even controversial.
This. Can you imagine if this lockdown had happened in the 80s. The restart would probably look like a game of zorb football.Oh but it wasn't forgiven. In fact Napoli kicked Maradona out of Italy just as Gazza was kicked out of Lazio and that after he barely made any money there due to fines. There were standards in terms of professionalism back in the day as well and many British players in that generation broke them. From Rush who refused to learn Italian while playing in Italy right to blatant use of alcohol who used to shock any non British football journalist commentating on England games during World cups.
So having people like Barnes discussing professionalism when their generation used to turn drunk and out of form almost anywhere they went does stink of hypocrisy. These days players are far more professional then players back in the day.
Without social media and constant information overload what we know today is probably just the tip of this iceberg.This. Can you imagine if this lockdown had happened in the 80s. The restart would probably look like a game of zorb football.
I'm not defending bad behavior by players, ex or current. Behaviors that are frowned upon are frowned upon for a reason, that they affect a players, and by extension the team's performance.Oh but it wasn't forgiven. In fact Napoli kicked Maradona out of Italy just as Gazza was kicked out of Lazio and that after he barely made any money there due to fines. There were standards in terms of professionalism back in the day as well and many British players in that generation broke them. From Rush who refused to learn Italian while playing in Italy right to blatant use of alcohol who used to shock any non British football journalist commentating on England games during World cups.
So having people like Barnes discussing professionalism when their generation used to turn drunk and out of form almost anywhere they went does stink of hypocrisy. These days players are far more professional then players back in the day.
Ole has shown that streak in himself. Shouting at lingard from the sideline and is also ruthless in removing players that he feels are bad seeds.Agree with most of those points but if it isn’t in a manager’s nature to bawl out players, he can still be ruthless in other ways. Also, coaches can do a bit of shouting, although ours don’t appear to be shouters, either.
Yes, managers are very like teachers, in many ways. The one who has to constantly shout and scream doesn't necessarily have more control than the one who is very quiet, usually less in fact, and that kind of approach wears off very quickly. It can be small things too. Mourinho in his younger days had good looks and charisma which seems to have gone by the way side, so players seem less interested in responding to his approach. Ranieri became peak Ranieri when he became slightly older and more uncle-y, which perhaps gave him a little more gravitas. Veeery pop-psychology I know, but fun, given this is a forum for random football ideas. Ultimately, what a manager needs is respect, and that comes from players buying into a project and seeing the steps to progress and success at each step.Managers will ultimately manage differently and we never really know what goes on behind closed doors, I mean look at Ranieri, he seems like he’d get walked all over but he won the league.
Let me share a personal story with you The team at my local town plays at 1st division level. However they have one of the finest youth academy in the country. That's down to the dedicated people at the club + also its down to the town was fairly young which meant that there were many kids running around at the time. Anyway back in my time, many kids would sign with the local club and do very well. Unfortunately due to budget issues the local club lacked an U18-21 squad. That meant that by the time you hit 18-19 you are either good enough for the first team or else you're basically fecked. The team won't play you, the club won't release you and any club interested in your services would have to pay good money to sign you. Contracts would run down and yet you're still owned by the club. I've seen dozens of very valid 18-19 year olds who were forced to retire from football because of that. That's pre Bosman ruling for you.I'm not defending bad behavior by players, ex or current. Behaviors that are frowned upon are frowned upon for a reason, that they affect a players, and by extension the team's performance.
Old school players were less professional in some ways, more professional in others compared to today's players. But that's an argument for another day.
I have no idea what Barnes was like as a professional, or what his motives are for what he said, but he is right in his assessment.
Liverpool really see everything as an attack on them right?Anyone hear this cnut before the game try and downplay Rashford's achievements?
'Everyone is talking about Rashford and what's he's done but Trents been doing charity work not just over the last month but for a while'
Fecking cnut
I agree entirely about players need to take their own responsibility. In the end, they are the ones directly performing on the football field. Managers can only help them so much if they have the proper mindset.Good interview.
Basically,
https://www.thesportreview.com/2019/05/man-united-news-john-barnes-solskjaer/
- United players need to have better attitude.
- They have to perform all the time (not just when everything going well and Mourinho is gone).
- The manager has to be allowed to shout at you.
- Cub and fans need to give the manager power to take every decision and keep the focus off players.
- They (Pep and Klopp) are powerful managers.
- They don’t have to keep the players happy – the players have to keep them happy.
- If Club's first priority is to keep players happy = recipe for disaster.
- Ole should be allowed to shout at players.
- Stop blaming manager and put more pressures on players = consistency which Liv and City showed.
Maybe few bias here and there, but generally that's very fair and have strong points.