Isn't that the point though? It's not the joker we know because it's about who he was before he became the him and how he got there.
Film Joker (2019)
- Thread starter Ahsan_6386
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As many other blokes, I just don't buy that this guy becomes the Joker mastermind, the worthy foe of Batman and agent of chaos and insanity.
The director said it could be taken either way in an interview (He can be the Joker or he could have inspired the Joker).
That's a very important distinction.
yeah I didn't really buy it either, to be honest, but its still a thoroughly enjoyable movie and interpretation of the Joker
Really? That's ridiculous if true. But.... the age gap in the film between Joker and Batman could make it plausible.
I feel though he probably said that after some questions he couldn't answer
Can’t tell if your serious?
People seem to forget that this movie is mainly focused around the life of Arthur Fleck. He’s the ‘joker’ for all of about 10 minutes he isn’t going to be a criminal mastermind at this point that would be absurd.
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You are missing out. It's great. By the way Phoenix is about 10000000000x better joker than Leto.
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So you haven't seen it but you don't like it?
I've read the plot.
Don't know man, Leto's has assault rifles, lamborghinis and Margot Robbie on a leash.
I've read the plot of another movie and it sounded terrible - 'shark eats girl, shark eats boy, 3 men on a boat, the end' turns out it was pretty awesome when I watched it.
A plot is at least 4-5 paragraphs long.
I just view DK as a very entertaining but somewhat empty rip off of Michael Mann Heat. But yes more importantly BANE IS THE GOOD ONE!!! Might have been a Zizek review that points out the only person in the Rises who commits a ethical human act is Bane when he save the child from the prison pit.
Nolan is clearly a very smart bloke when it comes to film making etc but that doesn't mean it will translate into politics. My reasoning being when people tried to point out this vague socialist revolution backdrop to him, he had no idea what they were on about. To him it really might just be about funny sounding muscle man fighting batman and oh no big bomb! Which would be great as I quite like the idea that Nolan has no idea how deeply reactionary his films are.
And that this potential right wing message would have real world effects. While WB clearly played into this with their marketing, the reaction to the film has been the most interesting thing about it. Just a few years ago we all would have laughed at the ''moral'' conservative talking about the effects of video games and movies on our society but within the last week the New York Times has been asking similar questions.
There's a great Chapo episode featuring Patton Oswell talking how hollywood reacts to certain american presidents(@berbatrick might know it). And the Joker again the reaction to it makes it the perfect Trump era film(You can read more about this in my guardian piece here - Why the clown emoji will be Corbyn downfall). The fact everyone is basically in a constant state of terror or at the very least being told to be in a state of terror, that the news is always breaking, every minute of every hour its breaking, it never stop breaking yet everything is still the same. If all it takes is one tweet from a certain someone to turn the world into shit then of course people are going to go crazy after watching 2 hour clown movie.
A clown movie as you said has more of a left wing message.
I have no time for superhero movies and the only one I think I've ever seen is the Heath Ledger Joker Batman movie years ago.
Does that matter?
Guessing and hoping it doesn't as this looks utterly immense.
Does that matter?
Guessing and hoping it doesn't as this looks utterly immense.
It only probably matters to Heath Ledger fans worried that their Joker bubble will be pricked. But to most it's just a standalone .one off, interpretation of the Joker origin story.
Doesnt matter at all - it's probably the most un-superhero type comic book movie ever made.
Ledger was fantastic however for me, Phoenix's Joker is potentially much more unsettling and scary than Ledgers.
Because one is an entirely plausible human character while the other is a comic book super-villain just very well acted.
Agreed. Ledger’s joker is still my favorite, but Phoenix’s is definitely scarier, because his descent, the things he did, that could literally be anyone at all.
Nicholson still better than all of them.
I watched an interesting analysis which basically says...
The blending of reality and imagination becomes severe after he loses access to his medication. From that point onward he becomes an extremely unreliable narrator and everything could be in his head. Not only the moment of him being lifted out of the police car, which seems extremely implausible to begin with.
How likely is it that any of the following events are real...
- Him getting a spot at Pogo's, in-spite of his condition.
- That he went to the Wayne residence, found a placid Bruce, picked up Alfred by the scruff of the neck and nothing happened
- Thomas Wayne, an aspiring politician, calling poor people "clowns" and "sick people"
- Newspapers running with titles "Kill the Rich"
- The Murray show playing his Pogo's clip and then inviting him onto the show while also letting him dress up as Joker
- Him being an inspiration to rioters and riots that conveniently spring up.
Compare that to the chances that he shot the finance bros, got apprehended not too long afterwards and ended up in a psychiatric ward due to his conditions. The rest, him waging a successful war against anyone that he feels has wronged him, could just be a movie playing in his head.
And what is more, the ending shows him in a session with a psychiatrist who has same sex, race, glasses and hairdo as the one in the beginning of the film. Albeit a different person. Making you question if the whole movie is not just an altered version of reality, entirely of his own making.
How likely is it that any of the following events are real...
- Him getting a spot at Pogo's, in-spite of his condition.
- That he went to the Wayne residence, found a placid Bruce, picked up Alfred by the scruff of the neck and nothing happened
- Thomas Wayne, an aspiring politician, calling poor people "clowns" and "sick people"
- Newspapers running with titles "Kill the Rich"
- The Murray show playing his Pogo's clip and then inviting him onto the show while also letting him dress up as Joker
- Him being an inspiration to rioters and riots that conveniently spring up.
Compare that to the chances that he shot the finance bros, got apprehended not too long afterwards and ended up in a psychiatric ward due to his conditions. The rest, him waging a successful war against anyone that he feels has wronged him, could just be a movie playing in his head.
And what is more, the ending shows him in a session with a psychiatrist who has same sex, race, glasses and hairdo as the one in the beginning of the film. Albeit a different person. Making you question if the whole movie is not just an altered version of reality, entirely of his own making.
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Nah it's fine, it's not even a superhero film anyway. But I wouldn't go in expecting something "utterly immense", those are big expectations.
It's amazing how you manage to be more wrong with each passing post.
And I see you keep confusing personal opinions with "right or wrong" facts.
Nicholson's Joker is still the most accurate of the comic book version of Joker.
You haven't seen this one, how can you have an opinion on it? Cos you've seen the trailer or read the plot?
Man I loved titantic!
This is sick man
Yes technically you are right, but there is no defenitive version of the Joker and this adaptation brings something new to the table, not just in regards to Joker but it's something fresh and original when compared to the other superhero stuff out there. As I've said multiple times in this thread, there is no right or wrong adaptation of the joker, there is no accurate portrayal of the joker. Each adaptation showed a different side of the joker and each version has its fans.
It's class isn't it!
I really didn't like the plot I read tbh so I skipped it, shit film.
I cannot for the life of me work out the sense in reading film plots as a mechanism for deciding on whether or not it's worth watching.
What is the best case scenario here? "Oh my god the plot for that film I've just read the ending of sounds amazing - can't wait to watch it!"
What is the best case scenario here? "Oh my god the plot for that film I've just read the ending of sounds amazing - can't wait to watch it!"
Do you realize most movies are not greenlighted to enter pre-production if the plot summary (treatment) is bad or unconvincing?
The whole approach to this "mama's boy with medication Joker" and the
idea that Thomas Wayne might be his father
Well, ehem, Bob Kane disagrees with you!
There's no room for growth if everyone sticks to the forensically accurate origin story & personality of a character.
Those decisions are made by professionals who have the ability and experience of turning scripts into movies to know what they're looking at. Not some eijit on the internet with a comic book collection and delusions of grandeur.
Oh my 
Ok we get it you aren't interested - why keep posting about it then? Nobody cares if you see it or not, this thread is for those interested in the movie and have seen it or plan to see it.
Felt the other way round. They're both very good. But Ledger's was the more intimidating and charismatic, whereas Phoenix's portrayal was more like a regular (albiet nuts) Joe playing the Joker.
Don't see why Ledger's joker is implausible. Just becuase he isn't a dunce or displaying weaknesses, and is at the top of his game, doesnt mean he isn't a human character. It's just more writing material and spotlight for this version of Joker.