Jordan Henderson: overrated/underrated?

giorno

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I mean, the POTY right now is De Bruyne and it's not particularly close

But if you want to keep giving it to liverpool players, there's at least 4 better choices than Henderson

Come on :houllier:
 

The Don

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Was he captain of the European, World and soon to be League Champions. If not then I don’t see the comparison.
You're holding his potential win of POTY as some sort of example as why he's an amazing player. I'm saying Scott Parker won it, playing in a shit team, with shit players, who won feck all.
Also, to me, they are similar level of player.
 

Judas

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Liverpool fans thought everything about their club was amazing when they were crap, now they're actually good, they're somehow still over the top?
 

Nou_Camp99

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Never once seen him play for England and thought 'Wow...this guy is special'. Not once.

So my opinion is he's just playing in a fantastic team under a top manager and being made to look better. let's see how good he does in the Euros. My guess is not very.
 

PickledRed

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What kind of criteria is that
Well...does it not indicate something good about Henderson? He's captaining the best side in the world. That might indicate he's better than 'decent'.
 

giorno

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Well...does it not indicate something good about Henderson? He's captaining the best side in the world. That might indicate he's better than 'decent'.
Oh yeah, he's an excellent player

POTY candidate is a joke though
 

PickledRed

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Oh yeah, he's an excellent player

POTY candidate is a joke though
A joke? I agree there's a debate around the subject but he's been very good this season and has been in the form of his life since Christmas in a team that wins every week without Fabinho alongside him.
 

The holy trinity 68

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Best player in La Liga: Messi
Best player in Ligue 1: Mbappe
Best player in Serie A: Ronaldo
Best player in Bundesliga: Lewa

Best player in the Prem: Henderson

:lol:

How can we argue that the PL is the best league in the world if Henderson wins player of the year. He isn’t even in the top 5 players on Merseyside.
 

Nou_Camp99

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Best player in La Liga: Messi
Best player in Ligue 1: Mbappe
Best player in Serie A: Ronaldo
Best player in Bundesliga: Lewa

Best player in the Prem: Henderson

:lol:

How can we argue that the PL is the best league in the world if Henderson wins player of the year. He isn’t even in the top 5 players on Merseyside.
He won't though. He's nowhere near that good. Liverpool have 5/6 better players themselves.

I do think a hybrid of City/Liverpool with perhaps 1/2 others from other PL clubs would beat any La Liga/Serie A/Bundesliga combined side though. Comfortably.
 

giorno

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A joke? I agree there's a debate around the subject but he's been very good this season and has been in the form of his life since Christmas in a team that wins every week without Fabinho alongside him.
He's not even been the 4th best player on his own team. Nor does have the outsized impact and importance of Van Dijk last season. A good run of form, during which he was still not your best player anyways, should not be enough to make him a POTY candidate

All of which should be academic anyways given De Bruyne has been levels above everyone else so far and is really the *only* player that should be considered for it right now
 

_00_deathscar

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I mean, the POTY right now is De Bruyne and it's not particularly close

But if you want to keep giving it to liverpool players, there's at least 4 better choices than Henderson

Come on :houllier:
Am I the only one who doesn’t think De Bruyne is as good as painted? Like he’s clearly phenomenal, absolutely world class etc - but many of his best performances seem to be when teams, for some utterly bizarre reason, give him the complete freedom of the pitch (Arsenal, there was another team as well a few weeks ago). He struggles a fair amount when not given this freedom to operate. He typifies Man City in many way - they can absolutely obliterate a team 9-0, 4-0 etc but then will struggle to pull something out when really needed.
Not saying he isn’t world class etc he clearly is, but I don’t think he’s ahead of any key LFC player for POTY.
 

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If people are talking about Player of the Year then he most certainly gotten back into the "overrated" bracket. He has fluctuated a bit over his career, generally I think he's underrated on here and I certainly think he's a good player, he wouldn't be in such a high-performing Liverpool team if he wasn't. But Player of The Year? Nah, not quite that tier.
 

giorno

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Am I the only one who doesn’t think De Bruyne is as good as painted? Like he’s clearly phenomenal, absolutely world class etc - but many of his best performances seem to be when teams, for some utterly bizarre reason, give him the complete freedom of the pitch (Arsenal, there was another team as well a few weeks ago). He struggles a fair amount when not given this freedom to operate. He typifies Man City in many way - they can absolutely obliterate a team 9-0, 4-0 etc but then will struggle to pull something out when really needed.
Not saying he isn’t world class etc he clearly is, but I don’t think he’s ahead of any key LFC player for POTY.
It's a league. Every game is equal. De Bruyne has been levels above everyone else individually with the possible exception of Mahrez, who played half the minutes. He's in the midst of an 14/15 Hazard, 17/18 Salah kind of season

No liverpool player individually has been as good as that.
 

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It's a league. Every game is equal. De Bruyne has been levels above everyone else individually with the possible exception of Mahrez, who played half the minutes. He's in the midst of an 14/15 Hazard, 17/18 Salah kind of season

No liverpool player individually has been as good as that.
De Bruyne might well be the best player in the league on his day, this season he is having is nowhere near the 17/18 Salah. That was a very special season, broke the record for most goals in a 38 game season, totaling 43 goals & assists combined. De Bruyne is having a very good season, that's about it.

Jordan Henderson for a good couple of months now has probably been Liverpool's best player, always in the top 3 players coming off the pitch and is absolutely driving the team forward. He's been exceptional, and just because you think his ability on the ball is less than those around him doesn't take away from his performances. Someones intensity, drive and power is near impossible to judge unless you are watching the games week in week out. But when our backs have been against the wall this season Henderson has been there every time, stepping up and taking back control of the game for Liverpool. He's been special, even if his on ball ability doesn't match up to the likes of De Bruyne, Hazard ect.

In my opinion he's been the best player for a team that is smashing through records, some people may feel he hasn't been the best player which is fair, but if you are looking at it objectively at the very least you'd recognise that his performances have been right up there with the best players this season, and if he isn't the player of the season he certainly one of them. There can be no arguments if he continues these performances and picks up player of the year.
 

taribhumpu

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Best player in La Liga: Messi
Best player in Ligue 1: Mbappe
Best player in Serie A: Ronaldo
Best player in Bundesliga: Lewa

Best player in the Prem: Henderson

:lol:

How can we argue that the PL is the best league in the world if Henderson wins player of the year. He isn’t even in the top 5 players on Merseyside.
Bar Ronaldo, he had defeated all of them recently. I would definitely force our players to watch that second leg of the dippers vs barca just to fire them up.
 

Rob

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Henderson is not and will never be the best player in the Premier League. He’s a great player, mind you, who’s having a phenomenal season with his team and is by all accounts a fantastic captain, but there are several players I’d rate above him.

Even if his team is trailing, de Bruyne is the best the league has to offer. After him comes guys like Salah, Mane, Van Dijk, Laporte, Sterling.

Henderson is somewhere further down the line.
 

Stick

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It's a league. Every game is equal. De Bruyne has been levels above everyone else individually with the possible exception of Mahrez, who played half the minutes. He's in the midst of an 14/15 Hazard, 17/18 Salah kind of season

No liverpool player individually has been as good as that.
Has De Bruyne been at that level consistently for all the games of the season? It could be argued that De Bruyne's form has fluctuated much like cities but that Henderson's form is consistent and from when I've watched him he is a driving force behind Liverpool's successful run. Technically I would place De Bruyne as a better player but it's not all about technical ability. I would have thought the player of the year would have to come from liverpool this season because to be fair they are 22 points clear of the pack which suggests they are head and shoulders above others. If you look at the team and the consistent performers you would look at Allison, TAA, VVD, Henderson, Mane, Salah and Firmino. I would select any one of these for POTY but then I'm biased.
 

giorno

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Has De Bruyne been at that level consistently for all the games of the season?
Most of them

I would have thought the player of the year would have to come from liverpool this season because to be fair they are 22 points clear of the pack which suggests they are head and shoulders above others. If you look at the team and the consistent performers you would look at Allison, TAA, VVD, Henderson, Mane, Salah and Firmino. I would select any one of these for POTY but then I'm biased.
Considering Salah won it in 17/18, it seems an incredible individual season still trumps other considerations

De Bruyne is having one such season
 

Gio

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Didn't Scott Parker win player of the year, once?
Nice link. If Henderson is a genuine contender for Player of the Year, then it's basically following the same campaign that saw Parker win when a few ex-professionals and journalists collectively decided he was underrated and, as a proper English pro playing the best football of his career, should be recognised appropriately.
 

Stick

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Most of them


Considering Salah won it in 17/18, it seems an incredible individual season still trumps other considerations

De Bruyne is having one such season
If all games are equal as you state then I would say that De Bruyne's consistency has not been there for all of the games. He has had absolutely superb games and then fallen short in a few. It could be that the POTY is selected on the basis of an outstanding season. De Bruyne has about 8 goals and 14 assists this season but Salah had almost a goal a game in the 17/18 season. I dont think De Bruyne has hit that level this season. There is of course still time but I think the consistent excellent performance of some of the liverpool players this year is just ahead of all other players.
 

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Hilarious how much the media and public react to a couple of goals. If he hadn't scored them he wouldn't even be near the discussion. He's having a very good season but he shouldn't really be near POTY.
 

Stick

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Hilarious how much the media and public react to a couple of goals. If he hadn't scored them he wouldn't even be near the discussion. He's having a very good season but he shouldn't really be near POTY.
If I was cynical I'd say it fits the narrative for the media at the moment.
 

RedRover

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He does a good job for Liverpool, and personally I think that's as much to do with Klopp than anything else.

Liverpool's back 4 is excellent as a unit. Their forward players likewise. There's less obvious quality in midfield but overall, the system works. He's not their most important players but he's arguably as important in the system as the vast majority of the others.

Good sides are rarely superstars 1 - 11. He's doing a great job and deserves any plaudits he receives but in my opinion, he wouldn't be as effective in other sides.
 

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He does a good job for Liverpool, and personally I think that's as much to do with Klopp than anything else.

Liverpool's back 4 is excellent as a unit. Their forward players likewise. There's less obvious quality in midfield but overall, the system works. He's not their most important players but he's arguably as important in the system as the vast majority of the others.

Good sides are rarely superstars 1 - 11. He's doing a great job and deserves any plaudits he receives but in my opinion, he wouldn't be as effective in other sides.
Decent post, it's good to see some people can recognise the qualities he brings to this Liverpool team and how good he has been, without having to be on a par with the likes of De Bruyne ability wise. He is thriving in a system designed to get the most out of the front 3 and full backs, and he has been one of the driving forces behind an excellent team this season.
 

B20

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Think he'd be effective in any midfield where he is not supposed to carry the main creative burden, tbh.
 

Classical Mechanic

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He won player of the year once, 2010-11 season
FWA Player of the Year you mean. I thought you were talking of the PFA award voted for by the players. I don't pay much attention to the FWA award as it can be sentimental.

Fergie was angry when Ginola won for a few bits of sexy football here and there, Klinsman won it in 94-95 when he didn't deserve it (Shearer 34 goals 13 assists & league winner). Sheringham was no way player of the year when he won it either.

It has been more acceptable recently however. Parker being an outlier really.
 
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Halds

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Henderson is not the most technical gifted and he doesn't offer many goals/assists. And he is not as good defensively as Fabinho. But still.. I think his importance to the team is a bit underrated. He is having the season of his life and the other players talk very highly about him. He is our undisputed captain and leader on and off the pitch and I believe he is just as important to the team as the rest of our better players.

He is kind of an odd choice for player of the year though. Him being mentioned among the favourites must be because neither of our better players are having a standout season like Salah 17/18 or van Dijk 18/19.
 
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giorno

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If all games are equal as you state then I would say that De Bruyne's consistency has not been there for all of the games. He has had absolutely superb games and then fallen short in a few. It could be that the POTY is selected on the basis of an outstanding season. De Bruyne has about 8 goals and 14 assists this season but Salah had almost a goal a game in the 17/18 season. I dont think De Bruyne has hit that level this season. There is of course still time but I think the consistent excellent performance of some of the liverpool players this year is just ahead of all other players.
De Bruyne has 15 assist and is almost certainly going to break the PL single-season assists record, he's THE best playmaker and creator in the world and has been consistently the best player on the pitch in more games than anyone esle. He's having an historical season for an attacking playmaker in the PL, the best we've seen in two decades so far
 

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Everyone looks at players like KDB, Aguero for the goals/assists they do. Henderson is a different player - he is one of the unsung heroes of the Liverpool team, with the amount of work he puts in and along with Fabinho and Wijnaldum is why Liverpool dominate so many games.

You don't have to be the most skillful player to win POTY - its the reward for biggest contribution to the team. Which is why De Gea has won it 4 times for Man Utd, Herrera has also won it - and why Pogba never will.
Liverpool are spoilt for choices - you could also name Allison, Mane, VVD, or TAA.