Jordan Henderson: overrated/underrated?

RedDevilCanuck

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An unfit player, even if really good, is a liability.

See Kane in the CL final, Rooney a few world cups.
 

Liver_bird

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Should never be on penalties ever. Not sure what went through his head with that. The main bonus being it’s a friendly and he’s an intelligent lad, he won’t repeat the trick twice. If he can get himself fit he will be an asset
 

Devil81

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Classic Keane.

So right as well, I'd understand if this guy was Messi or Ronaldo but it's Jordan Henderson, how can he benefit anyone half fit.

Disgusting taking that pen off DCL today as well, going into a tournament surely you want your striker firing. Selfish.
 

Rozay

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Perhaps can’t blame them as it’s more of Southgate’s call, but I do think he and Maguire have been a bit selfish taking spots in this squad when not fit. Especially Henderson. He’s not even that good and for me, doesn’t get into England’s strongest XI anyway. But when considering he’s been out for 3 months, I think someone else should be in instead.
 

FatTails

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Imagine your tournament hopes hanging on the fitness of Jordan fecking Henderson :lol: Jesus wept.
 

nokillingmoths

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Perhaps can’t blame them as it’s more of Southgate’s call, but I do think he and Maguire have been a bit selfish taking spots in this squad when not fit. Especially Henderson. He’s not even that good and for me, doesn’t get into England’s strongest XI anyway. But when considering he’s been out for 3 months, I think someone else should be in instead.
Henderson yeah but if England are to stand any chance they need maguire.
 

marktan

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He's a class player and England will be weaker for not having him fit in the midfield. Prowse is good at set pieces but he's nowhere near the same level in all round play.
 

Statue of Limitations

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He might be a good character to have for leadership qualities to have in the squad, but doesn't mean that he should be in the XI.
I don't doubt he is a good (not great) player, and he won't be missed too much on the pitch, can still help out off the pitch imo.
 

Liver_bird

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Yes let’s criticise one of the few players we have in the squad who has won a league and CL for.....Harry Maguire?

Football tribalism never ceases to amaze. Penalty debacle aside, the side needs both of them.
 

Figgins

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Yes let’s criticise one of the few players we have in the squad who has won a league and CL for.....Harry Maguire?

Football tribalism never ceases to amaze. Penalty debacle aside, the side needs both of them.
Henderson played like that guy who chases a girl who says no, and ignores his mates.

To some up your argument;

  1. if you've won a league and CL you should be in the England squad;
  2. Compare players in difference positions;
  3. Ignore selfish, awful decision making;
  4. Label those who don't agree with you tribalists.
Henderson's not fit, if Southgate wants a clown entertain the team he has his "pick me". Three and half months out and he's ready the Euros? If he was a game changing, once in a lifetime talent or shortages in the area I'd agree, he's not. He's become an embarassing distraction.
 

SecondFig

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Yes let’s criticise one of the few players we have in the squad who has won a league and CL for.....Harry Maguire?

Football tribalism never ceases to amaze. Penalty debacle aside, the side needs both of them.
Mate, David May won the Champions League. Or, if you want a less extreme example, Rafael Da Silva (who I really liked) won the league 3 times. Does that make him a better RB than Carragher?

I agree that a fit Henderson should 100% be in the squad. But I also agree that, unlike Maguire, a fit Henderson still isn't a guaranteed starter. That's not because Henderson is worse than Maguire, it's because the one area of the squad England have no real quality in depth is CB. Maguire is, like it or not, England's best CB. Stones is quality but also prone to awful errors, and good God, did you watch Mings last night? Coady is bang average, White is talented but young and inexperienced.

So I can understand and agree with England taking a half-fit Maguire in the hope that he'll be fit for the knock-out rounds.

In CM, I agree Henderson is one of England's best (more for what he brings off the ball) - but I won't lose much sleep if Bellingham plays instead of him, or even JWP.

I also think a few players (Rashford springs to mind!) need to take a long hard look at their fitness and injuries, and be honest as to whether they're actually going to be anywhere near 100% fit. England have paid the price for players being "England's brave boys" in the past - they don't need crocks hobbling about ineffectually for 60 minutes, they need players who are fit and ready to play at their best for 120 and penalties
 

big rons sovereign

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He's shite, never got the fuss about him. 2 yard sideways passes or hoofs out of play, that's it.

Aside from scoring a worldie against Chelsea and making a face at Diego Costa, I can't think of anything he's ever done.
 

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He isn't fit, should be nowhere near the team. Our management are acting like he's Messi and must play at any cost to ensure we'll have any chance of success.

JWP performed well yesterday and is still facing missing out on selection, I know who I'd rather take!

it isn't Henderson
 

JJ12

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If he’s rated any higher than shite then he is overrated.
 

Devil81

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Yes let’s criticise one of the few players we have in the squad who has won a league and CL for.....Harry Maguire?

Football tribalism never ceases to amaze. Penalty debacle aside, the side needs both of them.
The threads about Henderson though, if Maguire was mentioned then I'd say something similar, unfit, can't go.

The increased squad was due to the efforts the players have put in during the club season, Southgate has taken advantage of it and is using it rehabilitate players. I wouldn't be happy if I were a fringe player left out.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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He is one of the few world class midfielders that England got. Not worth wasting a slot on him if not fit though.
Is Maguire even fit as well?
 

bsCallout

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Absolute bonkers talk about leaving him out. If he's only there for experience and mindset he's an asset. Both Maguire and Henderson should be there because they are leaders and the squad is big enough to accommodate them. Of course neither should feature if not fit though.
 

bsCallout

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He isn't fit, should be nowhere near the team. Our management are acting like he's Messi and must play at any cost to ensure we'll have any chance of success.

JWP performed well yesterday and is still facing missing out on selection, I know who I'd rather take!

it isn't Henderson
While we are taking four RBs its not a question about whether we should leave our an experienced CM fit or not.
 

Pexbo

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He is one of the few world class midfielders that England got. Not worth wasting a slot on him if not fit though.
Is Maguire even fit as well?
He’s nowhere near world class. He’s a Gary Neville.
 

AshRK

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He is one of the few world class midfielders that England got. Not worth wasting a slot on him if not fit though.
Is Maguire even fit as well?
If he is worldclass then I fear for the standards of the game. He is just an ok midfielder who is fortunate to be part of an amazing setup under Klopp.
 

tomaldinho1

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Southgate can't make difficult decisions. Bin him (Rice and Philips are fine, Bellingham should play in MF too, bring JWP in).

Also bin DCL for Watkins and lose one of the 14 FBs
Never has it been so evident with an England coach in my opinion. Big names over form, reputations over ability.

Watkins offers a lot more than DCL, JWP should go, Bellingham should really start on form, White should have always been in for Mings in my opinion. Even if people disagree with each other preferences, it's ridiculous to take Henderson and Maguire and not give the places to 100% fit players.
 

bsCallout

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Never has it been so evident with an England coach in my opinion. Big names over form, reputations over ability.

Watkins offers a lot more than DCL, JWP should go, Bellingham should really start on form, White should have always been in for Mings in my opinion. Even if people disagree with each other preferences, it's ridiculous to take Henderson and Maguire and not give the places to 100% fit players.
Why is it? The other players wouldn't play in such a big squad. You want your two most experienced players and leaders there irrespective of whether they get game time. There is no one else good enough to demand a spot and if they were they would take a RB spot.
 

krentz

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I just had heated debate with 2 liverpool supporters yesterday, I can definitely say that liverpool fan must be the most shameless bunch of football supporters that ever exist. The length they could go to just to defend Henderson's antic yesterday is quite staggering. "If Hendo wants to take the PK then it's within his right to take it?" Like i mean who gave them the right? Guess i can finally understand how salah won the puskas award in 2018 and Klopp winning manager of the year in 2020. shameless liverpool supporters voted them like crazy. :houllier::houllier::houllier:
 

tomaldinho1

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Why is it? The other players wouldn't play in such a big squad. You want your two most experienced players and leaders there irrespective of whether they get game time. There is no one else good enough to demand a spot and if they were they would take a RB spot.
I guess I agree with Keane - obviously he exaggerated - but what value, really, are two players like that going to bring to on field performances? Yes they can encourage other players but surely you'd rather 2 fully fit players who can actually play? From what we saw last night, JWP could probably push to start to be honest and we're light in CM anyway, Watkins surely would be a nice option from the bench if we're chasing a game?

It's not like the England camp will fall apart and be crying out for leadership if Henderson and Maguire don't go? You've got a load of City and Chelsea players in there who have just won the two biggest prizes, you've still got Kane as captain, Trippier just won LL, Rashford is influential, plus all the coaching staff. I don't think they're really lacking in leadership or experience.
 

bsCallout

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I guess I agree with Keane - obviously he exaggerated - but what value, really, are two players like that going to bring to on field performances? Yes they can encourage other players but surely you'd rather 2 fully fit players who can actually play? From what we saw last night, JWP could probably push to start to be honest and we're light in CM anyway, Watkins surely would be a nice option from the bench if we're chasing a game?

It's not like the England camp will fall apart and be crying out for leadership if Henderson and Maguire don't go? You've got a load of City and Chelsea players in there who have just won the two biggest prizes, you've still got Kane as captain, Trippier just won LL, Rashford is influential, plus all the coaching staff. I don't think they're really lacking in leadership or experience.
They won't feature though. Watkins or JWP won't get any minutes. It's kind of irrelevant. There are already plenty that won't get minutes. So you might as well have your squad leaders there for training, for the dressing room or for the big games if we get there and theyre fit.
 

Rooney in Paris

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I mean beyond the fact that he's not even that good to begin with, the whole bringing him along and the debate over whether he can make it for the Euros is just bonkers for me; there is no way that a player, after 3 months out, having played 45mns of a shit friendly, will be anywhere near ready enough at any point of the competition to have any impact. It's even crazier when you realize that even at his best, his impact is very limited. It's a very different debate than the Maguire one for me, cos Maguire is of much better quality in the position he plays, was injured more recently (so might not need that long to get up to speed), and the quality we have in his position is too low generally speaking. Having said that, I wouldn't have taken Harry either unless it was clear that he would be able to play sooner rather than later at a high level.

But that we're sweating over the fitness of Jordan fecking Henderson is just insane. Southgate really has no courage.
 

tomaldinho1

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They won't feature though. Watkins or JWP won't get any minutes. It's kind of irrelevant. There are already plenty that won't get minutes. So you might as well have your squad leaders there for training, for the dressing room or for the big games if we get there and theyre fit.
Disagree re Watkin, you're probably right on JWP. In both cases though it's about optionality and not taking injured players for the sake of it - JWP offers specialist set piece taking (so actually offers a lot from a defensive training perspective over Maguire or Henderson) and is a good option for cover across multiple positions. Watkins is a good striker for depth and offers something different to Kane and DCL...I personally just think you only take 100% fit players to a tournament that start in a few days.
 
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Disagree re Watkin, you're probably right on JWP. In both cases though it's about optionality and not taking injured players for the sake of it - JWP offers specialist set piece taking (so actually offers a lot from a defensive training perspective over Maguire or Henderson) and is a good option for cover across multiple positions. Watkins is a good striker for depth and offers something different to Kane and DCL...I personally just think you only take 100% fit players to a tournament that start in a few days.
normally I’d agree - but it’s a risk worth taking when you have 26 players. There’s an argument to say it’s better than taking 26 fit players, as you have to leave 3 out of the match day squad completely which could be demoralising…
 

El Jefe

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Ahhh I see the usual caf tradition of shitting on an opposing player after one bad match and pretending they were rubbish all along is back. This is a pointless bump.

Henderson while not the greatest CM is someone who knows what it's like playing at a high level and does bring quality despite what people say. Bellingham, Rice, Phillips and JWP are all pretty inexperienced. Henderson has to be included.