He’s kind of like a budget Carrick. Not sure he’s that good, although I like the type of player he is.
Jorginho | Arsenal player
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Why some good football brains trust jorginho more than any one else always puzzle for many including me.
Sarri trusted jorginho and his ability to play under pressure he used him as link of defense and attack at Napoli. Or at least that's what I was told when questioned about him.
Sarri s Napoli one of the fluid attacking unit with jorginho as metronome of that unit. Pep wanted him in his team but he chose chelsea then opted for rodri once again better football brains wanted him in his team.
Mancini took Italy job and jorginho was ever present in his team though veratti,locatelli,barella, pessina are options in his team.
Tuchel came in and with jorginho he won champions league as starter in every match except a.Madrid home game because he was banned.
I still don't know what he is good at. But who am I to judge him after all better football brains simply trusted him and with him they created winning units too.
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Wouldn’t mind him if we could get him on the cheap - could be a useful squad player for us. Seems like the sort of player that would be grateful we’re in for him and really play for the shirt.
It's amazing we've won the UCL with so many (according to you) average players.
Tuchel must be even better than I thought.
I haven't always loved his game at Chelsea. We sometimes get too easily overrun in league games, but It's difficult to argue with his impact in the Champions League and the Euros this year. He just needs to help Chelsea to a great league campaign to shut the doubters (myself included) up completely.
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Quality penalty taker. One of the best "5th" penalties I've seen.
Apart from THAT one I can't recall a match point penalty ever being missed/saved.
It's probably/obviously happened but I genuinely can't recall it outside of Moscow.
Sorry. Which one?
I feel like it's probably the biggest "missed" penalty of all time right?
People miss to lose finals (Baggio being the prime example)but I'm fairly certain Terry is the only one to miss a big final (i'm talking CL / World Cup) pen that would have won the game. I haven't done a deep dive into penalty shoot-outs though, so don't quote me on that!
He also beats Declan Rice last season on every stat going. I like Jorginho, he has had a very good season. The only problem i have with Jorginho is his lack of physicality, especially in a back four and when the game gets opened up his lack of speed gets badly exposed, In a back three it doesn't get exposed as bad.From twitter:
Most interceptions at #EURO2020
Jorginho - 20
Kante - 14
Most Interceptions at Euro 2020 per 90 (3 apps or more)
Kante - 3.2
Jorginho - 3.1
Best midfielders in Europe. pic.twitter.com/YNHwoCUEM9
— J5(@ChelseaJF5) July 6, 2021
You don't know the half of it.As far as winning penalties in a shootout go, it was cool.
But not as cool as Abreu against Ghana, eh @antohan?
His nickname is El Loco and the last time he had been in a shootout was in a Copa vs Brazil. Had done the panenka, got it saved, game over.
As ge took the long walk to the penalty box we were all like "oh shit, he is going to do a panenka again, isn't he?". Even the commentator said "Surely can't? If the Ghana goalie did any research that's the one penalty he would have seen from him!"
fecker goes and calmly does a Panenka, then celebrates like the absolute lunatic he is while we jump around with a heavy weight in our pants.
The closest i can recall was Asamoah Gyan missing a last minute penalty in regulation play then Ghana losing the shootout.
In shootouts i genuinely cannot recall another match point penalty missed.
Chelsea did well signing this fella, he's had a good tournament too.
His posts in the football forum are literally always the same.
It’s amazing you didn’t also win the league with the way Chelsea fans rate their players.
But it wouldn't hurt like before 2012 though.May be we could lead cl trophy count more than m.utd if Terry not fecked it up.
Any excuse
He’s hardly leaving the Champions League-winner and London to move to a club in Manchester managed by an amateur compared to what he’s already got. Jeesh, lose the attitude. It’s 2021, not 99.
Strange player isnt he? He works best playing deep because he is press resistant. You can’t high press Chelsea because Jorginho is always two steps ahead of the press and he has unlocked the gateway to beating your press. This is why he is so important to teams, especially teams who are set up with a Registra.
He would be much more appreciated if he went to Manchester City under Pep. The City Machine under a Registra like Jorginho would be as close as you can get to the dominant Barcelona team under Pep.
He isnt flashy, he doesnt need to be it is not his role. However, holding and recycling the ball in tight situations when the opposition is pressing high, can lead to counter attacks and gaps in their defending.
Having Kante next to him however, works perfectly because with Jorginho it is similar to having a Pirlo in your team. Meaning when your team is high pressing, Kante does the work for 2 and can cover someone with less athleticism like Jorginho. This is why Pirlo always had a “partner” in the ilk of Kante/Vidal.
In my opinion Jorginho is best in a 4-3-3 like he was playing at Napoli. This allows him to sit deeper and control the game, while having two other midfielders in front of him. Youre able to implement possession football with someone like Jorginho in your team.
He would be much more appreciated if he went to Manchester City under Pep. The City Machine under a Registra like Jorginho would be as close as you can get to the dominant Barcelona team under Pep.
He isnt flashy, he doesnt need to be it is not his role. However, holding and recycling the ball in tight situations when the opposition is pressing high, can lead to counter attacks and gaps in their defending.
Having Kante next to him however, works perfectly because with Jorginho it is similar to having a Pirlo in your team. Meaning when your team is high pressing, Kante does the work for 2 and can cover someone with less athleticism like Jorginho. This is why Pirlo always had a “partner” in the ilk of Kante/Vidal.
In my opinion Jorginho is best in a 4-3-3 like he was playing at Napoli. This allows him to sit deeper and control the game, while having two other midfielders in front of him. Youre able to implement possession football with someone like Jorginho in your team.
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Nah you won the champions league with a lot of good players which contributes to having very good attacking depth. That isn't even controversial, you don't have any truly world-class players but not many dross ones either.
I think Kanté and Thiago Silva are definitely proven world class. If Mount, Havertz, Jorginho and Rüdiger confirm the level they've displayed under Tuchel so far, they're world class, too, IMO. James, Pulisic and Werner at least have the potential to get there. They have a very balanced high quality squad that fits very well to the philosophy of their coach if you ask me.
Don't take that too serious - I believe the guy is taking the piss a bit, have a slight feeling this is a parody account
Just browse his posting historyKante is possibly the only debatable one for me. He's not my type of player thus not world-class, but I can see the argument. Thiago Silva was world-class but isn't any longer, he's been good for Chelsea but not phenomenal. Agreed with some of their young players particularly Havertz, James and Mount who have the potential for more growth, but I don't see Jorginho getting any better than he already is (i.e a simple, good player). Rudiger was average before Tuchel arrived because he's error-prone and rash but he's been covered well by the system in a back three. The way I see it they have a good squad, with a good manager which means they can look at performing well... good.
You don't think Kante is world class? Obviously the definition of world class is different to all but to me it's the top 3 or so players in each position
Just seen your comment above
Yeh, I'd say by most peoples metrics Kante is world class. I have always found him a tad overrated though personally and he wouldn't make a dream team of mine (I'll add nor would his profile of player).
I think this is a pretty balanced take. What I'd say though to bring the thread back on topic a bit is that for me the key innovation Tuchel has made with Jorginho is playing him in a pivot - he's looked far better when pressing vertically and recovering than sitting at the base and trying to move laterally. Italy have copied this to some extent - although they line up as a 4-3-3 in possession and against opposing transitions they're almost always more of a 3-2-5 as Barella is stepping up.
For me this has helped Jorginho immensely - his defensive numbers are actually quite good; the problem for him is he is utterly incapable of asserting himself physically. But in terms of ball recoveries and distance covered, he's actually quite decent:
I agree that he's unlikely to develop further personally, but I do think his ceiling is higher when his strengths are maximised and his weaknesses hidden - he's the sort of player who needs to be put into a position to succeed by a smart manager, if that makes sense. In that way I do think Tuchel has elevated Jorginho beyond what he'd shown previously at Chelsea.
I love this player
To be honest I think it is hard not to include Kanté in the world class category. The guy is a specialist but so, so good at what he does. I also think Thiago Silva is more or less the same player he used to be only a bit more injury prone. I absolutely love Jorginho though. He's just such an intelligent player and he's so reliable at advancing the player. Takes the easy decision when there's only risky options at hand but also reliably plays the difficult vertical passes without attempting Hollywood stuff.
Thing is, in the end Chelsea has already performed more than just good last season, they were exceptional and deserving winners in the CL final. Players always only look as good as the system allows them. Of course Tuchel gets the best out of them but he can't just create class out of nothingness. Rüdiger for instance looked like a world class defender. He might not look like it in a different system but that's true for almost all world class players out there, isn't it? The distinguishing factor is the period of time over which you confirm it, so if those players maintain this level for another season, they definitely belong into this category, IMO.
I actually agree with most of that apart from Silva, I know we've been here before but I really feel you and others are sleeping on him a bit because of his age. He's also smashing it in the Copa aswell.
As you rightly point out Rudiger has been helped a lot by Tuchel's system, Silva played in Lampard's system and was also fantastic.
Think he might be better.
I wonder how he'd be perceived had he went to city like pep wanted instead and played in a possession based system with de bruyne/silva etc
Hes never had that with us.
Hes never had that with us.
Disagree, Thiago Silva was something of a freak athlete in his Milan & earlier PSG days. He's lost the top end of that and plays more conservatively as a result. But to me he's still one of the world's best, as his massive allround quality as a defender & on the ball is still there.
(I also think too much is made out of sheer pace in general. Anticipation, decisionmaking, skill are more important.)
Yes, that's a fair point.
For Chelsea this season he will be brilliant for 2 or 3 games and then have 1 absolute fecking shocker where he is the sole reason why we've been beaten.
managed by an amateur that finished above Chelsea in the league. Okay MikeLUHG
Possibly True. He has to compensate for less size and pace than Carrick
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Not from what I've seen. Carrick remained a better reader of the game, was taller and more physical. Better off of both feet too while I think also better at passing between the lines. Carrick was a massively underappreciated player but he held down the Utd midfield for years pretty much alone and we still kept winning. I do like Jorginho as a player and particularly his profile of player but he's a class below for now. It is worth mentioning that Carrick actually got better with age and really was still top class into his 30s so Jorginho still has some time in that regard.
His performance in the first game was absolutely brilliant and one of the best invidual performances in the tournament, similarly in the second.
Spain snuffed the midfield and man marked him pretty much that he hardly got the ball
Spain snuffed the midfield and man marked him pretty much that he hardly got the ball
Crazy you do so much business together.
I always forget who has the most rivalry with who with London clubs but United doing anything with City or Liverpool is unthinkable.