Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[villain]

Yeah, a self help/guidance book basically which highlights how your behaviour needs to change as you go up the career ladder to achieve success because the game changes.

Re Jose, I think he was the perfect manager to take over from Sir Alex, would have been a dream. Pretty much a great choice to take over from LVG too. He had the authority to change things at the club, forced the suits to spend to revitalise the squad, bought well, made our squad better, got us a taste of trophies again etc. Ideally, he'd have won us a league title too but City had a freak season. He's done a good job so far, even his harshest critics would have to admit that.

Thing is, he comes with a package. Everyone has always known that. He does not believe in a proactive style of football to impose on games. He doesnt believe in keeping the ball and dictating how games go. Has streaks of his personality which arent great either. He's always been reactive, a guy who will suffocate the opposition first if he has any doubt that the gulf in quality isnt big enough to risk positive play. All of this is fine as long as you deliver results, people, especially ones in our situation, will accept the package. But, when you make everything about the result, you need to make sure you deliver because if you don't, discontent will always simmer through.

I believe the club needs a different manager to take the next step from here. Jose has done well so far, I probably wouldnt mind another summer window with him because he has a keen eye in the market and has the balls to go out and spend big so we'll have a better squad than what we had now. But, post that, the club needs someone with better, fresher ideas and a more proactive way of playing football. Someone who can coach the team better and extract more out of what we have. He isn't the guy to do that and take us to the next level. We have some fantastic talents at the club and they are capable of so much more than what we've been served so far. A club with our resources can buy the best around and when you can do that, you want to see more bang for the buck you're spending. Also, just stockpiling good players is neither feasible nor enough. There's too many clubs with too much money and managers capable of producing a sum of parts greater than the individuals. We need someone similar who can take this squad and make it hit the heights its capable of in a proactive manner.

I agree to a fault, I don't think Jose long term is the right manager for us and if he came after Fergie it would've been perfect - he would've taken over a title winning squad, and helped phase out the deadwood and introduce a younger more dynamic team and instill the defensive stability we were lacking at the time.

But, we are where we are now - and I believe he's got 2 more years with us personally, he's not going to leave without winning us at least 1 title and having a positive CL campaign (I would be disappointed if we don't make the Semi's at least), I think all of that will happen in the next 2 years.
At that point, our team will be much more settled and we can introduce a new manager with a more progressive approach, but I do appreciate the groundwork that Mourinho is placing down now, it sucks right now after that defeat but it will reap rewards.

Also, I'm going to put that book on my list, thanks!

 

[JG3001]

I’ve no idea how people can say stuff like that with so much certainty.

Even then, the best defence of him is there is nobody else that would be ‘available’? Not good enough.

Agree, piss poor excuses, these people sound like a 60 yo widower who thinks back alley Jane is as good as it gets now. I’d have no problem at this point giving a chance to someone with a positive approach and 2/3 years to see if there is progress. We’ve now had 5 years of negativity and it’s mentally draining to watch.

Yes we’ve had the trophies and I’m grateful, but our league performances have been cack, and we could still drop in position this season (though I think top 4 is a certainty at this point).

I said to someone else on here a while back that my issue is I believe we could be in a similar position to where we are now with a more attack minded approach, that doesn’t mean we have to copy Klopp or Pep to the nth degree.

 

[MightyRedz]

It was an extremely poor choice of words after that performance though. Extremely poor!

The thing with Jose is that no matter who he's in charge of, and no matter what they do/don't achieve the story will always be about HIM.

I understand that you need marque managers, and that after the virtual anonymity of Moyes and LVG United needed to raise the profile of their manager - but Jose was always going to be a big risk. If United do well, it'll be "look at whay I've done", while every loss will be someone else's fault - the board, the players, the referee, the weather.

I can't think of any other top manager, past or present who so elevates himself above team and club - and that should be a real worry to all United fans, but the problem is what to do now - looking around I don't see another manager out there who could quickly transform United to compete in style and substance with City, Spurs and Liverpool, so I guess that United fans might have to settle for another year or two of anti-football (but results-wise reasonably successful) until he's built a squad that he'll trust to play expansive, front foot winning football.

 

[JohnnyKills]

We're not, at least not right now and haven't been for ages.

In fact, even under SAF, you could suggest that we underachieved in Europe. We had a brilliant period from 2007-2011 and won the competition once. Prior to 2007, we made one semi final since the win in 1999.

Right now we're not, clearly, but we're definitely part of the European elite if you look at our history. But this is starting to sound a bit RAWK so I'd better stop!

 

[The Man Himself]

How do you know what he meant?

His quotes were left open to interpretation, and, he is either being an idiot, or is naive to think that fans / media wouldn't raise eyebrows at those quotes.

If Moyes had said that (and he said things similar), he would have got hammered.

We shouldn't have gone out to Seville the way we did, the buck stops with him on that. No shots, no passion, no creativity - all sounds very Van Gaal to me.

I know it because of what he said prior to controversial statement. It had followed the comment, "It is not end of the world." Besides, it is common sense to know that a manager who knows he is going to be in job for some time and is responsible for results will not try to distance himself from result. I know because the things Mourinho said to team as per Times is not indicator of what you are deducing from the comment.

Again, nobody is defending performance. The quote could have been better worded but it wasn't an attempt to distance himself from team or as many are saying foolishly, attempt to "troll United."

Moyes didn't have results to back anything. On this topic though, I was telling people on caf back then too not to look too much into quotes which may sound very defensive. If Mourinho ultimately fails on targets, that will see him go, not the comments. Moyes was not sacked for saying we aspire to be like City. It is the ultimate results which were too far from targets. I can't believe you are comparing these two.

 

[royboy16]

Well, IMO, Jose was to blame for that match result.
In saying that, just because we went out of the CL, having got to the last 16 for the first time in several years, does not mean that Jose is not the right man.
I am fully behind our players and manager who as a team, are getting better every year.
There is clear progression compared to last season and I expect further progression next season.

Some of the younger fans in here, need to learn that when teams progress, the progression can take time.
I have seen a time when back in the early 90s, MUFC were whipping boys of the CL. When teams needed an easy win, they'd play us and we'd get beat. I saw Barca (which included Romario), put 4 goals past us (I think it was).
I also watched as we improved and learnt as a team (fans, players and manager), how to improve and push into the latter stages of the CL. I also saw that some 6 years later, we won the CL.
I also later learned that for the first 4-odd years, SAF's MUFC were not impressive, were going nowhere and he hung onto his job by the skin of his teeth.

For the youngsters out there, who expect results immediately - this won't happen. During the Moyes/LVG era, we went backwards. Our team lost the winning mentality. Jose has come in and is slowly changing the mentality of players.
In his first season he won 2 trophies - more trophies in his first season at MUFC than any other MUFC manager managed in their 1st season.
In his 2nd year, he is cementing 2nd place. The highest league position, since SAF departed....beaten only by a record breaking MCFC side.

Get behind the manager and our players. By all means, shout ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK! Give our players the backing and confidence that we want to see them put a team to the sword and as humans, they will most likely attempt to do so.
But to suggest that players should be sold or manager sacked is short sighted and shows absolutely no forward thinking or intelligent planning.

If Jose were to leave in the Summer, the new manager would need at least 18 months or so, to adapt his team to his own playing style. This would mean another 2 years (minimum) of transition and not winning the title. Jose on the other hand, is ready to challenge for the title next year, as he already (for the most part), has the team of his choice in place.

Well said Bob.

Also to touch on the part in bold,I remember when we got JM some people on here were saying we would win the league in his first season(a minority) or he always wins the league in his second season as manager -sure with a team that was also groomed to win titles he might.

Ive been saying from day one since he signed for us he probably had a 3 year plan to mould this team into his own and the current team isnt the finished article also some of his signings haven't worked out,it happens.

I think we over achieved last season winning 2 trophies in his first season and he might just win 1 trophy this season.

I'm not happy with the style of football played at times but Il be happy with finishing second in the league and hopefully an FA CUP this season.

 

[Neuron]

Very recently Conte and Ranieri won the title in their first season.

 

[walkinhop]

I think he should be given one more year to close the deal. He'd have been given enough resources and time to win the title. If he doesn't properly attack and win it in his 3rd year, i don't see why would he be given more time.

A new manager would need time to mold the team anyway, so might as well start the preparations for the possible change now. Talk to a few people, get an idea of what they think, restructure...

 

[Borden]

Mourinho must be delighted that there are so many fans who are willing to continually shift the goalposts for him.

He himself talked about challenging for the title in his first season. That went tits up, we crashed to our worst league finish since Moyes, and he barely rescued CL qualification with a scrappy EL win against cannon-fodder, which was then promptly talked up as a big achievement by the same manager and fans who have ridiculed the competition in the past. Then we were told that he needed the first season for the rebuild, and that expectations should be much higher in his second season because that’s always when his teams truly come together. Well, again we haven’t been close to challenging for the league title, have crashed out of CL with a whimper against a second-rate team, and haven’t remotely looked like a team with the mentality and quality to be able to challenge for major honours or compete with the very biggest clubs. More often than not we look completely and utterly clueless, incapable of keeping the ball for any sustained period of time, and so sloppy and lethargic that you begin to question whether the players and the manager really give a shit. We’ve become a laughing stock around Europe for the quality of our football after all that money spent.

Now we’re being told that next season is when we should be expecting to see Mourinho’s vision (whatever that might be, it’s still not clear) somehow magically come to fruition. Somehow I find myself doubting that.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Mourinho must be delighted that there are so many fans who are willing to continually shift the goalposts for him.

He himself talked about challenging for the title in his first season. That went tits up, we crashed to our worst league finish since Moyes, and he barely rescued CL qualification with a scrappy EL win against cannon-fodder, which was then promptly talked up as a big achievement by the same manager and fans who have ridiculed the competition in the past. Then we were told that he needed the first season for the rebuild, and that expectations should be much higher in his second season because that’s always when his teams truly come together. Well, again we haven’t been close to challenging for the league title, have crashed out of CL with a whimper against a second-rate team, and haven’t remotely looked like a team with the mentality and quality to be able to challenge for major honours or compete with the very biggest clubs. More often than not we look completely and utterly clueless, incapable of keeping the ball for any sustained period of time, and so sloppy and lethargic that you begin to question whether the players and the manager really give a shit. We’ve become a laughing stock around Europe for the quality of our football after all that money spent.

Now we’re being told that next season is when we should be expecting to see Mourinho’s vision (whatever that might be, it’s still not clear) somehow magically come to fruition. Somehow I find myself doubting that.

Great post. He's been full of bullshit so far.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Mourinho must be delighted that there are so many fans who are willing to continually shift the goalposts for him.

He himself talked about challenging for the title in his first season. That went tits up, we crashed to our worst league finish since Moyes, and he barely rescued CL qualification with a scrappy EL win against cannon-fodder, which was then promptly talked up as a big achievement by the same manager and fans who have ridiculed the competition in the past. Then we were told that he needed the first season for the rebuild, and that expectations should be much higher in his second season because that’s always when his teams truly come together. Well, again we haven’t been close to challenging for the league title, have crashed out of CL with a whimper against a second-rate team, and haven’t remotely looked like a team with the mentality and quality to be able to challenge for major honours or compete with the very biggest clubs. More often than not we look completely and utterly clueless, incapable of keeping the ball for any sustained period of time, and so sloppy and lethargic that you begin to question whether the players and the manager really give a shit. We’ve become a laughing stock around Europe for the quality of our football after all that money spent.

Now we’re being told that next season is when we should be expecting to see Mourinho’s vision (whatever that might be, it’s still not clear) somehow magically come to fruition. Somehow I find myself doubting that.

What did you expect him to say?

That was obvious, we deluded ourselves into thinking that we could win the league after the shit-storm we went through the previous three years.

Don't necessarily disagree with the rest but quite clearly there's a winning mentality growing after being inconsistent losers for four seasons on trot.

By who? The fans? These are just opinions. Would it make you feel better if I told you we'll be aiming to be relegated next season?

 

[Greck]

He also said we were going to attack in the second half of this season. We probably overlooked that he has a different interpretation of the term attack.

 

[Smithy_123]

Mourinho after knocking us out with Porto:

“I understand why Ferguson is a bit emotional, he has some top players in the world and they should be doing a lot better than that. You would be really sad if your team gets as clearly dominated as that by an opponent who has been built on maybe ten per cent of the budget.”

Oh, Jose!

 

[Andersons Dietician]

‘Jose is not the manager we thought he was,' said one senior source on Wednesday night. 'We are worried. We know the fans hate the football, and we won't win the league for three or four years. He's also too insecure and gets involved in things away from the football.'

If this is actually a true statement from someone on the board I have to wonder what kind of manager did they think we were getting? As he’s been very Jose scince he walked in the door. The tactics, his demeanour, nothing reallly seems that different about him.

 

[Adisa]

‘Jose is not the manager we thought he was,' said one senior source on Wednesday night. 'We are worried. We know the fans hate the football, and we won't win the league for three or four years. He's also too insecure and gets involved in things away from the football.'

If this is actually a true statement from someone on the board I have to wonder what kind of manager did they think we were getting? As he’s been very Jose scince he walked in the door. The tactics, his demeanour, nothing reallly seems that different about him.

Sounds like bull.
Where is it from?

 

[endless_wheelies]

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Hate to say "told you so" - those post-match comments did exactly what they were supposed to.

 

[Pyro19]

Mourinho must be delighted that there are so many fans who are willing to continually shift the goalposts for him.

He himself talked about challenging for the title in his first season. That went tits up, we crashed to our worst league finish since Moyes, and he barely rescued CL qualification with a scrappy EL win against cannon-fodder, which was then promptly talked up as a big achievement by the same manager and fans who have ridiculed the competition in the past. Then we were told that he needed the first season for the rebuild, and that expectations should be much higher in his second season because that’s always when his teams truly come together. Well, again we haven’t been close to challenging for the league title, have crashed out of CL with a whimper against a second-rate team, and haven’t remotely looked like a team with the mentality and quality to be able to challenge for major honours or compete with the very biggest clubs. More often than not we look completely and utterly clueless, incapable of keeping the ball for any sustained period of time, and so sloppy and lethargic that you begin to question whether the players and the manager really give a shit. We’ve become a laughing stock around Europe for the quality of our football after all that money spent.

Now we’re being told that next season is when we should be expecting to see Mourinho’s vision (whatever that might be, it’s still not clear) somehow magically come to fruition. Somehow I find myself doubting that.

This is pretty depressing to read actually.

It's all true also.

 

[United_We_Stand]

Sounds like bull.
Where is it from?

From Chris Wheeler's article on the Mail

"Jose is not the manager we thought he was,' said one senior source on Wednesday night. 'We are worried. We know the fans hate the football, and we won't win the league for three or four years. He's also too insecure and gets involved in things away from the football.'

"The feeling in the United camp afterwards was that Alexis Sanchez and substitute Paul Pogba, in particular, had let the team down in a limp display.
Some players also feel that Romelu Lukaku is short of being a world-class striker even though the Belgian scored his 24th goal of the season to briefly revive United's hopes"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...d-figures-questioning-Mourinhos-approach.html

 

[#07]

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[Minimalist]

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Hate to say "told you so" - those post-match comments did exactly what they were supposed to.

Those quotes are fecking stupid if that's what he really told them.

 

[Minimalist]

From Chris Wheeler's article on the Mail

"Jose is not the manager we thought he was,' said one senior source on Wednesday night. 'We are worried. We know the fans hate the football, and we won't win the league for three or four years. He's also too insecure and gets involved in things away from the football.'

"The feeling in the United camp afterwards was that Alexis Sanchez and substitute Paul Pogba, in particular, had let the team down in a limp display.
Some players also feel that Romelu Lukaku is short of being a world-class striker even though the Belgian scored his 24th goal of the season to briefly revive United's hopes"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...d-figures-questioning-Mourinhos-approach.html

So some of our players are apparently discussing the short comings of Lukaku despite him being one of the few that can honestly say they've done well during the season (certainly for the awful service he's got). I'll hope that's a load of nonsense.

 

[endless_wheelies]

Those quotes are fecking stupid if that's what he really told them.

You wanted him to stick the knife into traumatised players further?

 

[Minimalist]

You wanted him to stick the knife into traumatised players further?

Genuinely laughed at that. Well done.

 

[Borden]

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Hate to say "told you so" - those post-match comments did exactly what they were supposed to.

Make him seem like an arrogant bellend?

 

[Adisa]

From Chris Wheeler's article on the Mail

"Jose is not the manager we thought he was,' said one senior source on Wednesday night. 'We are worried. We know the fans hate the football, and we won't win the league for three or four years. He's also too insecure and gets involved in things away from the football.'

"The feeling in the United camp afterwards was that Alexis Sanchez and substitute Paul Pogba, in particular, had let the team down in a limp display.
Some players also feel that Romelu Lukaku is short of being a world-class striker even though the Belgian scored his 24th goal of the season to briefly revive United's hopes"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...d-figures-questioning-Mourinhos-approach.html

Sounds like one of those fluff pieces we get after a loss.
"Senior source"...could be the security guard.

 

[endless_wheelies]

Genuinely laughed at that. Well done.

You think they were crying with laughter?

Make him seem like an arrogant bellend?

In a nutshell.

 

[endless_wheelies]

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Seems Mourinho's lapdog thinks Jose wants to play more expansive football also.

 

[crazylegz]

improved midfield, mourinho got his way to get pogba and matic for his ideal midfield, why give him more when he can't get it to work and I don't buy the he needs more time and money because he's let down by supposedly poor defence (who's choice was it to buy lindelof and play young at left back?) when you would have to ask is liverpool's or city's defence better than what we have?

 

[OldSchoolManc]

I think this season is another step in a long term plan. The previous 2 managers had taken us so far down blind alleys, that we had to learn how to play winning football again.
Jose has made us a solid unit once again (barring the massive blip vs Sevilla) and has a great platform for us to build on.
My hope is that now we have that solid base, next season will be the one where Jose let's his horses run free.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

So some of our players are apparently discussing the short comings of Lukaku despite him being one of the few that can honestly say they've done well during the season (certainly for the awful service he's got). I'll hope that's a load of nonsense.

Yeah that sounds a bit like what him and his mates say down the pub, doesn’t it.

I’d love to know who in our squad feels in a position to look down on Lukaku. Utter bollocks.

 

[#07]

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[Tosicsleftpeg]

Next season is where we need results. I really feel that if next season we fall massively short of domestic success then that will be the end for Jose, I do like him but it only works if we are winning otherwise his personality of not accepting blame and lashing out at others is incredibly self destructive.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

Oh well, i have calmed down a bit now. He fecked up against Sevilla, shite happens. Now we focus on winning the FA cup and staying in 2nd spot.

I have hope that next season we will see a more consistent United, a more settled XI and a more functional team overall.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Contrary to what others feel, I’d be more confident if Jose felt he wanted four or five new players in order to get to where we want to be.

Realistically we need two top class fullbacks. We’re one of the biggest and richest clubs in the world so why shouldn’t we have comparable quality with the other elite clubs. I’d say we definitely need two midfielders and possibly a right-winger.

I know we can’t sign this number of players every season, but the squad is getting old and tired in a number of areas.

As a club we really are stuck in a deep rebuilding situation. We have a number of good young players yet to develop consistency and reach their potential. The others have been decent servants but we need to be bringing in quality replacements who are ready to perform at the highest level. There’s not one player in this team who is at their peak performing to the required standard. Regardless of who is the manager.

I appreciate people don’t want to see us chucking money at Galacticos with no thought to how we use them. There are players out there, however, of the necessary quality and at the right age. We have the resources to bring them in and really need to be doing it quickly.

 

[Borden]

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These dudes know nothing.

Also the notion that Mourinho needs to have signed every player for it to be considered a 'Mourinho team' is laughable.

 

[Ramshock]

I have to say I usually back whoever the manager is and I will continue to do so with Jose but that result and his post match comments have really shook my belief in him. He really needs to win the PL next year I think to keep his job.

 

[buckooo1978]

Mourinho must be delighted that there are so many fans who are willing to continually shift the goalposts for him.

He himself talked about challenging for the title in his first season. That went tits up, we crashed to our worst league finish since Moyes, and he barely rescued CL qualification with a scrappy EL win against cannon-fodder, which was then promptly talked up as a big achievement by the same manager and fans who have ridiculed the competition in the past. Then we were told that he needed the first season for the rebuild, and that expectations should be much higher in his second season because that’s always when his teams truly come together. Well, again we haven’t been close to challenging for the league title, have crashed out of CL with a whimper against a second-rate team, and haven’t remotely looked like a team with the mentality and quality to be able to challenge for major honours or compete with the very biggest clubs. More often than not we look completely and utterly clueless, incapable of keeping the ball for any sustained period of time, and so sloppy and lethargic that you begin to question whether the players and the manager really give a shit. We’ve become a laughing stock around Europe for the quality of our football after all that money spent.

Now we’re being told that next season is when we should be expecting to see Mourinho’s vision (whatever that might be, it’s still not clear) somehow magically come to fruition. Somehow I find myself doubting that.

can't disagree with a word of that

 

[Axkiko]

The people celebrated

These dudes know nothing.

Also the notion that Mourinho needs to have signed every player for it to be considered a 'Mourinho team' is laughable.

Same thought. Defining the player who he signed only to be considered as “Mourinho team” is one of the most ridiculous thing i have ever seen. No manager signed the whole squad within 2 years but some of them still did well.

 

[iamherenow]

improved midfield, mourinho got his way to get pogba and matic for his ideal midfield, why give him more when he can't get it to work and I don't buy the he needs more time and money because he's let down by supposedly poor defence (who's choice was it to buy lindelof and play young at left back?) when you would have to ask is liverpool's or city's defence better than what we have?

What was our midfield options before pogba and matic?,we have now realised both can do the work alone because pogba doesn't want to do the box to box work needed.we now have to get more midfield options and better fullbacks..

 

[Cliche Guevara]

The people celebrated

Same thought. Defining the player who he signed only to be considered as “Mourinho team” is one of the most ridiculous thing i have ever seen. No manager signed the whole squad within 2 years but some of them still did well.

Sorry, but it happens more often than not and is quite a common observation.

You have to take into account the strength of a team and whether the existing players fit the manager’s preferred profile.