Home and away matters less without fans, but it still matters. And you, not me, were one who introduced the subject of United's superior xG - drawn from the vast sample of a single game - as a piece of bizarre evidence that Spurs can't win the league title.
Jose Mourinho | Spurs manager
- Thread starter roonster09
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You are not reading mate.
I was making a point that I believe Mourinho needs at least 4 world class players and experience defense to win the league like how he built his Inter’s team with Millito, Eto’o, Sneijder, Cambiasso. Spurs have world class attackers in Kane & Son but your midfield are nowhere near Sneijder & Cambiasso and also worse than Liverpool midfield.
I only used the stats to give the idea that you don’t have Sneijder type of midfielder like Bruno to create top quality chance for your attackers but your attackers are very clinical enough to convert those low xG, I actually gave massive credit to your attackers quality, I don’t know why you are being salty with me giving the credit.
United not being top of the league is irrelevant to the fact that Spurs doesn’t have Sneijder and Cambiasso quality midfield.
It was one of our midfielders, Ndombele, who created the chance for Son to score our first goal yesterday. And it was another midfielder, Lo Celso, who scored our 2nd goal.
Hojbjerg, Ndombele, Lo Celso, Sissoko,and Winks form a set of midfield options that is much stronger than you credit.
That Amazon Doc was either 1 season late or 1 season to early no matter what way you look at it.
This season Spurs have a massive chance of winning the league with Jose. Just need to survive the spell when Kane inevitable get injured.
This season Spurs have a massive chance of winning the league with Jose. Just need to survive the spell when Kane inevitable get injured.
You don’t know what I’m talking about mate.
My point wasn’t about creating chances but actually the quality of the chances. Clinical finisher like Kane & Son can score good amount of goals from lower quality chances, imagine if they get higher quality chances (xG) from someone like Bruno, they would have score even more goals.
My point still stands that you still don’t have Sneijder & Cambiasso quality midfielders. Unless if you are one of those deluded spurs fans that believed Eriksen was on the same level as KDB then I won’t be surprised if you think your current midfield are on that Sneijder & Cambiasso level.
But should you as a Spurs fan really talk about who's a top club?
Your trophy room is about as empty as my hairline.
Sheffield Wednesday has more league titles than you!
You do realise, I suppose, that Spurs chose to pursue the signing of Ndombele in preference to Bruno. I doubt that many Spurs fans think we made a mistake in so doing, because he fits well with our team, as doubtless does Bruno with United.
Talking about Sneijder & Cambiasso, in a different era and a different league, proves little. Nor is anything proven by your random choice of four as the supposed needed number of world-class players.
The preference is irrelevant to the fact that Bruno created higher quality chance xG than Ndombele, beside Ndombele isn’t Mourinho signing so may be he would have sign Bruno or different player to Ndombele. The higher quality the chance xG is the higher the chance for clinical attackers will score, this is not rocket science.
You are missing the point of Sneijder & Cambiasso those two are top or world class quality midfielders. It’s similar to Liverpool’s Thiago & Fabinho. You don’t have that which brings my opinion regarding your limit that can prevent you winning the league as there is that difference between you & Liverpool.
He had longer stint at Chelsea compared to most of their coaches cause they are a sacking club anyway , meanwhile Florentino Perez actually likes him and won't have any problem to hire him back. Most of the players he had beef with end up apologizing to him ( Such as Hazard , Casillas ) when they realize Mourinho were right about them , i won't be surprise if Pogba also end up apologizing to him in the future, he was the one playing like crap yet blamed the coach for benching him. I can see why he chose Spurs after all that issue, not only because Spurs has good squad , but also because they have their leader , best player ( Harry Kane ) an obedient and humble person who doesn't play social media, must be a heaven for any coach to work with. People are saying "wait till Harry Kane or Son get down injured" yet ignoring what makes them injured in first place. It's because Poch told them to harrass and press as much as they can till they are all knackered , Mourinho play with a style that have the least chances of getting players injured. He also has another striker as cover so Kane and Son doesn't have to play all games.
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Son Heung-Min scored total 12 goals/31(8) games in PL in 18/19, and 11 goals/30(2) games in 19/20. This season with Mou as head coach he has 9 goals/9 games. I don't remember anyone use "world class" to describe Son during Poch's era. Of course people will not give credit to Mou for Son's increase in output. It is Son himself suddenly becomes world class.
May be you want to take into account that majority attackers normally hit their best at 27-30?
As much as I hate Mourinho, like Jamie Carragher said on MNF a few weeks ago, it would be an interesting tale should Mourinho prove all of the doubters (both fans and pundits) wrong by winning another title his way after pretty much everyone agreed that he is finished as an elite manager.
His style is obsolete too many.
It might be a good wake up call for United as well. Our previous manager winning something of note shortly after leaving.
His style is obsolete too many.
It might be a good wake up call for United as well. Our previous manager winning something of note shortly after leaving.
You're dreaming. Even Liverpool winning the Premier League didn't wake our board up one bit.
Ndombele is refreshing. Carries the ball with ease and damn near impossible to dispossess while also able to pass with both feet. No need for set pieces and penalties to be good, one of those players that is just good at football.
If you analyze the game through stats and spreadsheets you wont rate him, you have to watch the game to understand why he is good
Keano didn't split defences with his passes but he was one of the best midfielders as regards to workrate. I would prefer to have 2 Keano's in my midfield with 1 Fernandes.
Espn's bias towards Mourinho is infuriating.
Stevie Nicol is an absolute idiot.
Stevie Nicol is an absolute idiot.
Think he's actually done a very very good job so far. We've actually played some very good football at times and there's a clear style of play.
At times, the bottom level of performance is utterly appalling (Everton and Antwerp this season for instance) and he will shithouse in some of the bigger games for sure but frankly, after more than a decade without any kind of trophy and decades since any kind of significant one, I'll take that if he can rebuild and win a trophy.
Any title talk is a little premature for me, can re-assess in a month or two. This season is throwing up some crazy results though so far.
At times, the bottom level of performance is utterly appalling (Everton and Antwerp this season for instance) and he will shithouse in some of the bigger games for sure but frankly, after more than a decade without any kind of trophy and decades since any kind of significant one, I'll take that if he can rebuild and win a trophy.
Any title talk is a little premature for me, can re-assess in a month or two. This season is throwing up some crazy results though so far.
This is pretty much where I am, I have seen a lot of people on here saying our performance against city was boring and negative, personally I loved it, we closed very door they had to open and there was nothing they could do about it.
Is the Special One special again?
Or are we just seeing Second Season José?
Or are we just seeing Second Season José?
If Jose gets them in top 4 this season, then it is a very good result. If he wins the Prem, then it will be a very clear indicator that he is still a much better manager than Ole.
Even forgetting this bizarre attempt of comparing the two teams based off one game against mutual opposition(and even then it's not entirely comparable given one of those teams was at home and the other away), your graphs don't show Utd as having created more expected goals than Spurs anyway. Utd get a 0.8 boost from winning a penalty, it wasn't a chance created, the ball was crossed and hit a defender's hand. Most xG graphs(that I see anyway) discount penalties from their calculations as xG is meant purely to measure the quality of chances created.Kane & Son are world class. He never had those type of players at United. He can’t develop young players so he bought Sanchez, Lukaku & Pogba but two of them aren’t world class and the other one in decline deadwood.
In my opinion, Mourinho needs 4 world class players & experienced defense in order to win title. It’s similar to his inter when he had Milito, Eto’o, Sneijder, Cambiasso & experienced defenders.
He might have his own Eto’o & Milito at Spurs but he doesn’t have Sneijder & Cambiasso in his midfield. That is where their limit is to prevent them winning the league with the current squad.
In fact, in United forum, a poster posted xG graphs of United vs WBA and WBA vs spurs. Both United & spurs won the game 1-0 but United has so much higher xG than spurs which tells you their midfield don’t really create high quality chances but Kane & Son are just being more clinical in converting those low xG chances.
The point wasn’t to prove United is better than Spurs. The point is Spurs doesn’t have top quality midfielders like Sneijder & Cambiasso but Liverpool have those top quality midfielders Thiago & Fabinho which brings my opinion regarding Spurs‘s limit that can prevent them winning the league as there is that midfield difference between Spurs & Liverpool. I’m using the United stats just to give an idea that if Spurs have Bruno top quality midfielders, Kane & Son would have score more goals since he created better quality chances.
They spanked us 1-6 mate.
I don’t think there’s ever been any suggestion, at any time ever, that Ole will ever be a better manager than Jose for even a single day. He doesn’t need to win another league title to affect this.
The way Harry is playing at the minute he should be included in the Spurs midfield the guy is absolutely everywhere. I don't think Liverpool have that much more creatively in their midfield 3 than we do. Thiago & Fabinho are world class but I wouldn't call any of Liverpool's midfield out and out "creative", they are mostly controllers of the game.
Agreed. Just some of the posters here were saying that Jose is past it while Ole has enough in his locker to manage one of the biggest clubs in the world going through rough times. I was happy when Mou was sacked, as he was extremely toxic and did well past it, but I will give him huge credit if he wins the prem with Spurs before United.
I definitely put Harry in there but my point still stands and still not being countered that you don’t have top quality midfielders like Sneijder & Cambiasso like Liverpool with Thiago & Fabinho. Their full backs alone are far productive than any of your midfield and full back.
I can agree with that, sorry I misread your post. Our midfield hasn't really gotten a chance as a unit yet to see what it can do due to injury and fitness to GLC and Ndombele. its time for them to show the potential they have on a good run of games. Hojbjerg is also finding his feet and going totally under the radar in his performances.
I don’t really disagree with anything of this. What it doesn’t remove, is the fact that Mourinho at United, after a point, did more and more clearly detrimental stuff that was pretty evident if you follow press conferences, behind the scenes stuff from the more sobre sources and watch moat of the games. I would say Mourinho impressed me the first season, and his results, if not playing style, was the best since Ferguson for one and a half season. Thing is, where many coaches might meet such challenges with patientl tinkering, creating alliances and continue to use their strengths in facilitating a positive general atmosphere in the majority of the group of players and staff, Mourinho quite clearly unravelled before our eyes, and instead of the Machiavellian father figure who strengthenths the family bonds by creating an enemy from without, he made an enemy of almost everyone within. Sometimes a change of manager can bring about new optimism and an uplift in results, but a team going from bottom half football to 14-2-1 beating Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and PSG all away in the process, tells you something about the extent of collective relief created by Mourinho being gone. Seeing both versions of Mourinho (the early days version and the latter days version, it would be tempting to say that’s not the same person, but then again, people at Chelsea and Real Madrid have also seen before that that exactly is Mourinho.
Everybody needs to just settle down with this. They have only played 2 of the sides from the top 8 last season and have won the grand total of 2 more wins than us with having played a game more.
To me, they are as much of an anomaly up there as Southampton and Leicester are until we see a bit more.
Your comparing us to Leicester and Southampton which is a terrible comparison.
We have got the Mourinho Factor
We have got the number 1 striker in the EPL
We have got a big enough squad to deal with the demands of the season with capable back ups in every position.
Good to see Glaston back from India. You think Winks has a future in that Spurs midfield or will Jose phase him out as he does not really fit that Jose midfielder style of CM?
Well given this forums propensity towards recency bias it is kind of understandable Jose was 'finished'. Just look at the many 'Kane is finished' posts around, making those look a bit premature at the moment given he is the best player in the league at the moment.
Jose was never 'finished', he has had a run of clubs that for whatever reason he has fallen out with the board and some specific players. At Spurs Levy looks like he is giving him quite a bit of control over the squad. Much like Pochettino before him, lets not forget Pochettino had banished the the Spurs captain to the subs bench then subsequently sold him. And he banished Adebayor, one of Spurs' star players to train with the under 18's. looks like Jose has the same authority over the squad, If Jose says you are out, you are out. Look at Rose and Alli, Jose has decided neither are fit for service, exiled Rose and benched Alli, has Alli even made the subs bench? Im assuming he will be sold come the xfer window.
Whilst I do not expect them to win the title, they are well in for top four and in with a great shout at a trophy, Europa, League Cup or FA Cup. Im sure Spurs fans on here would take that without any grumbling about the style of football being played. I mean look at all the swashbuckling press from the front, play out from the back football they played under Pochettino, and how many trophies did that get them?
Hojbjerg and Sissoko seems to be Mourinho's favoured CM duo, so Winks is most likely to be used as rotation-rest for one or other of these. He'll also be a starter in certain Cup and EL games. But Mourinho will want to keep him in the squad, so won't be looking to sell if that's what you mean by "phasing out".
We have played 3 of the top 8, comparable to the rest of the top 4-5.
Dier certainly seems to have found his position. He's taken a while to settle at CB, but now he's quietly becoming one of the best in the league. If I remember correctly, he was originally bought as a CB and moved to DM.
That would be killer midfield. And the leadership standards of that team would be crazy. Then again there can't be 2 keanos in a team.. There will be fireworks and not the good kind
Jose has his highs and lows. During the highs I admit anything is possible but when it all goes to shite I don't want a character like him anywhere near my club.
Yup his first season was by far his best at CB then Poch allowed him to dictate where he wanted to play, he was never a CM or a DM.
Even so, they will need to play like top class level quality midfielder in order to beat Liverpool for title race which I have my big doubt to see them to play like that this season.
Out of Spurs next 5 matches 4 are against top teams. They will define whether spurs are title contender.
One could argue that the Hassenhutl and Rodgers factor is a bit better in 2020 than the Mourinho one, whatever that means anyway. Not to mention that Leicester also have a very capable squad, just scroll through their injury list this season.