Jose did not set that team up to defend against City. They were simply outclassed and outplayed completely by a brilliant side with a far superior midfield quality.
Jose Mourinho to PSG?
- Thread starter Paxi
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No it matters. If we wanted to defend from the start it makes zero sense to start all your attackers and give them defensive instructions, than just start more defenders or more midfielders to defend.
There is some serious disconnect between this forum and match-going Manc fans the last few years.
Same under Moyes, this forum use to rip the guy to shreds yet the Stretford End use to support him, aswell as Van Gaal. That's the club we are, this forum is just an invitation for faceless trolls to say things they wouldn't dare to someone's face or at a game.
Because of our decline since Fergie, it has given rise to some members on this forum with an agenda and axe to grind to feel like they are important and their opinion actually matters. So much entitlement.. yet match-going reds are just thankful to be at the club supporting the club. Things could be much much worse ! I wish people on this forum would be thankful for getting to watch a football game on Sky be it at home or down the pub.. many people ain't so lucky.
Same under Moyes, this forum use to rip the guy to shreds yet the Stretford End use to support him, aswell as Van Gaal. That's the club we are, this forum is just an invitation for faceless trolls to say things they wouldn't dare to someone's face or at a game.
Because of our decline since Fergie, it has given rise to some members on this forum with an agenda and axe to grind to feel like they are important and their opinion actually matters. So much entitlement.. yet match-going reds are just thankful to be at the club supporting the club. Things could be much much worse ! I wish people on this forum would be thankful for getting to watch a football game on Sky be it at home or down the pub.. many people ain't so lucky.
Let's be patient with Jose. He's very good at his job and he's coming around. He will prove to be a good fit and he will get his pound of flesh against City, sooner or later.
You’re right. You just can’t please some of our fans. They’ll pick something to moan about regardless of what state the club is in. We can have the best players and the best position in league and they’ll still be complaining. These are the times...
He did set them up to defend and hope to catch them on the counter, we made no attempt to actually take them on at all and we invited them on to such an extent that we couldn't get out, for all the ass kissing that goes on with this City side De Gea made one save in the first 75 minutes as we blocked up all of the spaces and they played around with it without penetration most of the time.
Mourinho said himself that having more attackers on doesn't make you more atatcking and likewise for having more defenders on, after a bit you just become clustered. He put his 4 fastest attackers on and then started all of them but Lukaku in deeper positions, Rashford and Martial doubled up with their fullbacks who both made little attempt to attack, and Lingard as practially a 3rd CM. It was a negative set up relaint on hoping to catch them on the break from a deep starting position, but it was starting so deep that allowed their press to suffoicate us.
The football is better under Jose then it was under Moyes and Van Gaal, still not classic Fergie but we can't expect it overnight. First we had to stop the bleeding from Moyes and Van Gaal created (which Jose has done expertly stopped the rot/decline), destroy the house Moyes and Van Gaal built and rebuild the house with new foundations etc. You are looking at a minimum 5-year Project. But again these days patience amongst football fans is non-existent who want instant success.
If we keep sacking managers, we will be a mid-table club in obscurity forever ala Liverpool.
If we show Jose some love, I'm sure he will stay longer than 3-years and extend his contract past next summer.
If we keep sacking managers, we will be a mid-table club in obscurity forever ala Liverpool.
If we show Jose some love, I'm sure he will stay longer than 3-years and extend his contract past next summer.
Hope this is bullshit. Mourinho is just getting started. We need stability and we've always had our best years with that. We're still 3 or 4 players short of being complete and mourinho has definitely improved us. Alright, the odd game we play shite and go hoofball for periods but we're way more entertaining now than under moyes or van gaal and mourinho knows how to win trophies.
Hope he stays and is backed in the transfer windows.
Hope he stays and is backed in the transfer windows.
Try to make a joint team of Manchester United/City players. Try doing this even with Chelsea.
Mourinho is getting the absolute maximum he could get out of this set of players and then some. Letting him go would simply be suicide.
Mourinho is getting the absolute maximum he could get out of this set of players and then some. Letting him go would simply be suicide.
Same here. I'm not calling for him to be sacked (or anything close), but if he chose to leave to join PSG I really wouldn't be upset
And that's fine considering they were playing a team like City. The problem was in the execution of the plan.
So which players have really improved under Mourinho? Rojo last season (not this one, yet), maybe Jones at times, but that's about it. City do have some amazing players, but a lot of the current side have really improved under Pep (Otamendi, Mangala, Delph, Fernandinho, Sterling, even Silva).
Looking at the other sides, I'd say our squad is stronger on paper than Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs or Arsenal and that's reflected in our current league position.
Jose is doing alright, far from great and far from awful - but losing him would hardly be a disaster.
It's not fine when they are coming to Old Trafford IMO, but the problem was we had no counter gameplan, he had Lukaku miles from the other 3 who were all tucked deep and adrift from the #9, it's why City found us so easy to press, we congested ourselves. It's par for the course with Jose in these big games, he's so afraid of the other teams strengths that he sacrificies our own.
Thanks, great post
Losing him isn't the end of the world. But there's a very slim chance the next manager will do better.
Conte isn't doing better than us this season, and he's a more loose canon than jose. I don't think he'll stay beyond 2-3 years.
Poch seems to be the flavor of the year, but i dont think he fancy coming to us, and spurs side aren't actually world beater.
The club is playing to their potential for the first time since Ferguson this season. But, not that worried if Mourinho leaves because of have a weird feeling that it will all implode next season under Mourinho.
I don't want us to go in circles, but again it doesn't make any sense. The formation we saw against Arsenal for example was clearly defensive with the point to hit on the counter, anyone can see that from the lineup, but that City match lineup was completely the opposite. Mourinho had all the tools to go for 5-3-2, but he chose to play with all his 4 attackers.
If you think the 2011 final we want on with the United way and tried to attack but got outclassed, anyone can say the same on that City match as well, because there's no evidence that we entered the pitch with intention of defending considering our lineup, just like that 2011 final. It'll come to each one's perspective.
I've spent a lot of time in both London and Milan, and they're no fancier than Manchester. Madrid I cannot speak of.
Plenty of fans are impatient but I'm not sure fans demanding that this is less than a five-year project would be acting impatient at all, because the rebuilding process if done correctly really shouldn't take that long. We have one of the biggest spending budgets in the PL and one of the highest wage bills in Europe; quite frankly I don't see what's wrong with fans expecting success.
Patience is needed and if Mourinho demonstrates continuing improvement (as he has done so far) then he should be praised for that and given more time to continue working and building. But I don't think it's at all realistic to suggest that we need five years to rebuild with the resources we have. Conte took over a 10th placed Chelsea side and won the league with them the following year. Pep took over a City side that barely scraped 4th ahead of LVG's United and will probably win the league this season. Pochettino came into a Spurs side that'd finished 6th under Sherwood and has improved them massively, getting 2nd last season despite having fewer resources than most of his main rivals.
Talks of long-term rebuilding projects, while admirable, can sometimes strike me as very Wenger-esque. After his early successes at Arsenal, in the first couple of post-invincibles a lot of people excused his failings because they said he was building a new bigger and better project. That didn't materialise, of course; the reality was that he just wasn't doing very well anymore.
And rebuilding isn't always a steady and static process - in his second spell at Chelsea Mourinho rebuilt the club over two years to title winners again, before everything then imploded.
So while I obviously hope Mourinho stays and would be gutted if he leaves PSG, my general point is that it's perhaps flawed to look at his time here as a sort of long-winded, steady process of rebuilding; football is unpredictable, and for all we know Mourinho will win the title when we least expect it, before then losing it when we actually are expected to come out on top.
Great post. I totally agree.
There is no other manager better positioned than Jose to take on Pep at City. My concern, like yours, is that we are not giving him everything he needs to make this a fight we can win.
We need to give Jose the players he needs to take them on. Otherwise it’s a sign that the owners will be happy just getting top 4 each season while City run away with leagues.
The amount of United fans calling out to get rid of Jose is ridiculous. They must have more faith in the Glazers succession planning than I do!
Having the players to match city is one thing, having the manager to match pep is another.
Give pochetinno/conte/jose city's team they probably will not perform close to pep.
Give pochetinno/conte/jose city's team they probably will not perform close to pep.
4-5 years ago there's quite a number that prefers moyes to mourinho.Great post. I totally agree.
There is no other manager better positioned than Jose to take on Pep at City. My concern, like yours, is that we are not giving him everything he needs to make this a fight we can win.
We need to give Jose the players he needs to take them on. Otherwise it’s a sign that the owners will be happy just getting top 4 each season while City run away with leagues.
The amount of United fans calling out to get rid of Jose is ridiculous. They must have more faith in the Glazers succession planning than I do!
I kid you not.
Aye, can remember plenty of debates on here as to whether Moyes was a better option for a variety of reasons with many taking his side. May seem ridiculous now but it was pretty run-of-the-mill back then.
He will go to PSG but not now. Jose probably flirts with PSG both to keep that window open for the future, and to let our board know he's wanted and would leave if he doesn't get a lot of money.
Probably the same people that wants jose gone and poch to replace him...
Poch isn't a bad coach, but he's certainly no better than mourinho
Probably the same people that wants jose gone and poch to replace him...
Poch isn't a bad coach, but he's certainly no better than mourinho
Standard rumours during renewal talks. I expect Mou to sign a new contract soon.
The story got no traction in France although PSG will keep their options open in case they have to replace Emery in the summer.
The story got no traction in France although PSG will keep their options open in case they have to replace Emery in the summer.
I remember! I came lurking on here post-Fergie in search of a support group!
Jose and Pep are the two most successful managers in the game. I think we need to try and keep Jose. If we do get rid we need to get some people on the board who’s actually understand football and can give us long term direction. That’s just as important as the next manager.
You're too caught up in the names on the sheet vs how they were actually instructed to play. In the game against Arsenal Lukaku was not nearly as isolated because Pogba broke from the midfield and Lingard and Martial played right up with him, in the game against City everyone started deep and in a defensive shape, with Lukaku miles away from them isolated, that's the key element. it's not who you play it's how you instruct the players to deploy on the pitch.
But no one is talking about why we are not winning the PL this season do they?
Most are worried about the style and the type of football played to achieve the result. Personally I dont mind if we don't win the league in the next couple of years if there is clear improvement in things and a clear plan to do something. Right now it looks like the plan is to outspend every others and try to win a PL title by hook or by crook. There is no clear philosophy of football that we play and that shows against any organized team or when our one or two skilled players have an off game. We are just not playing like a team unless it is to park the bus. There is no coherence in our attack. If there is improvement in things like passing, movement and attacking moves then I don't care if we finish 4th or 5th. But there is no improvement unless we are piling on hopeless clubs like West Ham, Palace etc.
You have to try and support the manager. And while he's in the position the club have to fully support his vision. There's no viable alternative. As a fan my only concern is with the long term success of the club on the pitch. I don't care how wealthy we are. For a fan it is about the entertainment, the passion, the journey and (hopefully) the glory. In that context he is not a manager I particularly like, because he is both an insufferable bell end, and prone to playing some serious shit on a stick football.
If he goes, he goes. It only bothers me, if we don't have a contingency plan that continues to move the club forward. If he stays, I will continue to support him and the players; because as a fan, that is literally our only job.
If he goes, he goes. It only bothers me, if we don't have a contingency plan that continues to move the club forward. If he stays, I will continue to support him and the players; because as a fan, that is literally our only job.
I get the impression its BS as well. Thinly sourced clickbait intended to wind fans up on forums.
He played some great football when he last won the premiership with Chelsea. Point is that our squad needed alot of work before Jose came and still does need the finishing touches.
Yes, his default style may be a little defensive/counter attack. But when he has the right quality of players at his disposal he is more progressive.
We’re in danger of almost hounding out our best managerial option because his style of play is not Pep Guardiola’s! Which sadly would play right into Citys hands.
Having lived there, Paris is the classiest place - way better than Madrid. Manchester is our home but not got anything on it, London is spectacular but he's done it to death. Jose will be attracted by the beauty of a Paris lifestyle (plus what would seem an easier job).
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No its not a crime to admit it. It is one though to not mind a manager who has turned a ship that was sinking fast just because you "heart" tells you that you aren't enjoying watching us play. Have you see Man City last year? Did you enjoy that? Did you enjoy all SAFs matches? I believe you would have been happy to see him leave too.
And we have a right to voice our opinion(s) - especially if we don’t agree with Mourinho’s tactics.
I mean, just look at our record v the top six, the amount of goals we have scored & the way we were tactically set up. Negative.
Yes, results have been good, but the football? As bland as it has been the last four years.
I want him to stay his third season and get his third transfer window to complete this team. Roughly 3-4 players each window gives him a brand new starting 11. No excuse to park the bus against the top 6 when he has his balanced team.
Fans who suggest we should go for Poch, are they serious or just wumming? Poch will never be on Mourinho's level, not even close. We got one of the top two managers in the world who won us two trophies in his first season, and we still have a shot at some silverware this season. Have some patience you ungrateful tw*ts.
Cannot for the life of me understand those spoiled brats who want him to go, there's is absolutely nobody in the world who could do as good for United as he is doing and you'll find that out next season if he does leave
IF Mourinho's off to PSG on his own in the summer, then I would say that he didn't have the patience turn us properly around. I mean for most part we have in all fairness looked more competitive than under Moyes and Van Gaal all though our team still leaves lot to be deserved if compared to Fergie era. If the United board however decide to sack him (I cannot think of any legitimate reason right now for the board to do so), then I did say the board would need to have a proper plan in place whom too bring in and what the goals for the club are in the long run.