Jose Mourinho's Real Madrid

[giorno]

Post-galactico era, Real Madrid was in the doldrums. 2 sporadic league wins in 2007 and 2008 masked what was actually a team of flat track bullies.
Madrid had no "toughness", no playing identity, no "performers" and frankly speaking a team consisting of over-hyped prima donnas.
In comes Mourinho, with his reputation at its peak.

Season 1:

1. He purchases young, hungry players in Khedira, Ozil and Di Maria.
2. Openly challenges the authority of the sporting director and Perez's henchmen.
3. Diplomatically informs the team that they are a bunch of losers and that they need to listen to Mourinho.
4. Players, press and club officials start complaining about Mourinho's defensive, deep block counter attacking style.
5. Madrid play open football and lose 5-1 to Barcelona. This strengthens Mourinhos argument against those who were complaining about Madrid's defensive style.
6. Now Mourinho is King!!!
7. Team starts to play a little nasty.
8. Barca are still too strong in the league and CL but the team fights to win the Spanish Cup against what is probably one of the greatest sides ever.
9. Everyone thinks Mourinho was the right choice.

Season 2:

1. Mourinho signs Varane.
2. There is a siege mentality around Madrid.
3. Mourinho's team look and feel different. The players have hate in their hearts. They look like they'd rob you in a dark alley, not because they can, but because they have to. They are fueled by hatred: hatred of Barca, hatred of UEFA, hatred of the Barca-humping press.
4. The team plays like a machine. Drop deep, 9 outfielders behind the ball, outlet is either Di Maria or Ronaldo, win ball, 4-5 rapid passes and its Gooooooaaaaaal!
5. Lose CL to a fantastic Bayern Munich. Players look mentally shot. Winning the 2012 CL was supposed to be the peak of their careers. They may not get a chance again.
6. Play on auto-pilot and win La Liga.
7. Mourinho makes it all about himself ... and he is right!
8. Everyone loves Mourinho.

Season 3:

1. Mourinho signs Modric. Plays him mainly as a substitute attacker, just behind the striker.
2. Ronaldo gets into a contract war with the club. Is not playing well. Di Maria and Ozil become lazy. Casillas and Ramos are making stupid defensive mistakes.
3. Slow start to the season. Mourinho should have used more of his substitutes and benched some of his starters.
4. Hunger seems to have gone. Players seem lethargic.
5. Captain Casillas is rumored to be leaking dressing room secrets through his journalist wife. Is confronted by Mourinho and subsequently the team splits into pro/anti Mourinho groups.
6. Almost all players side with the Casillas-Ramos alliance.
7. After that everyone is playing on auto-pilot. Everyone knows that Mourinho will leave at the end of the season.
8. 1% of the fans want Casillas/Ramos/Pepe gone, 60% of the fans want Mourinho gone and 39% of the fans want to punch Mourinho in the face.
9. This should have been the season where we won the double. Instead it became a soap opera with all in-fighting and distractions.

Conclusion:
Mourinho is a good coach when:

1. You can't sell your expensive players and you have to bully your prima donnas into performing.
2. Players are convinced that they are losers, the world hates them and the football pitch is actually a war zone.

Everything but the bolded is spot on

That semi final with bayern blew the cracks wide open. Bayern got dunked on by dortmund in germany, they were a great team but not as good as us, we should have beaten them, and Mourinho's negativity in the second leg pissed off everyone in the dressing room(and also a lot of fans, though the league win with record points and goals was just enough to keep belief in him). It was the definite proof that selling their souls to Mourinho didn't work. Following season everybody kind of tolerated him and his methods until he started a civil war, which gave them the chance to dump him for good

 

[gaucho_10]

His time at Real is underrated. Real would of never had the Champions League success it had without Jose.

Ancelotti's aproach to player management, the fans and the media was completely opposite to Mouronho's. Ancelotti's team also played completely different football. I don't see how is Mourinho crucial for Ancelotti's success. It's one of the things that are constantly repeated by people who don't follow the team closely (imo).

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Post-galactico era, Real Madrid was in the doldrums. 2 sporadic league wins in 2007 and 2008 masked what was actually a team of flat track bullies.
Madrid had no "toughness", no playing identity, no "performers" and frankly speaking a team consisting of over-hyped prima donnas.
In comes Mourinho, with his reputation at its peak.

Season 1:

1. He purchases young, hungry players in Khedira, Ozil and Di Maria.
2. Openly challenges the authority of the sporting director and Perez's henchmen.
3. Diplomatically informs the team that they are a bunch of losers and that they need to listen to Mourinho.
4. Players, press and club officials start complaining about Mourinho's defensive, deep block counter attacking style.
5. Madrid play open football and lose 5-1 to Barcelona. This strengthens Mourinhos argument against those who were complaining about Madrid's defensive style.
6. Now Mourinho is King!!!
7. Team starts to play a little nasty.
8. Barca are still too strong in the league and CL but the team fights to win the Spanish Cup against what is probably one of the greatest sides ever.
9. Everyone thinks Mourinho was the right choice.

Season 2:

1. Mourinho signs Varane.
2. There is a siege mentality around Madrid.
3. Mourinho's team look and feel different. The players have hate in their hearts. They look like they'd rob you in a dark alley, not because they can, but because they have to. They are fueled by hatred: hatred of Barca, hatred of UEFA, hatred of the Barca-humping press.
4. The team plays like a machine. Drop deep, 9 outfielders behind the ball, outlet is either Di Maria or Ronaldo, win ball, 4-5 rapid passes and its Gooooooaaaaaal!
5. Lose CL to a fantastic Bayern Munich. Players look mentally shot. Winning the 2012 CL was supposed to be the peak of their careers. They may not get a chance again.
6. Play on auto-pilot and win La Liga.
7. Mourinho makes it all about himself ... and he is right!
8. Everyone loves Mourinho.

Season 3:

1. Mourinho signs Modric. Plays him mainly as a substitute attacker, just behind the striker.
2. Ronaldo gets into a contract war with the club. Is not playing well. Di Maria and Ozil become lazy. Casillas and Ramos are making stupid defensive mistakes.
3. Slow start to the season. Mourinho should have used more of his substitutes and benched some of his starters.
4. Hunger seems to have gone. Players seem lethargic.
5. Captain Casillas is rumored to be leaking dressing room secrets through his journalist wife. Is confronted by Mourinho and subsequently the team splits into pro/anti Mourinho groups.
6. Almost all players side with the Casillas-Ramos alliance.
7. After that everyone is playing on auto-pilot. Everyone knows that Mourinho will leave at the end of the season.
8. 1% of the fans want Casillas/Ramos/Pepe gone, 60% of the fans want Mourinho gone and 39% of the fans want to punch Mourinho in the face.
9. This should have been the season where we won the double. Instead it became a soap opera with all in-fighting and distractions.

Conclusion:
Mourinho is a good coach when:

1. You can't sell your expensive players and you have to bully your prima donnas into performing.
2. Players are convinced that they are losers, the world hates them and the football pitch is actually a war zone.

Interesting post. I wonder why some of those sounds so familiar here...

 

[Jim Beam]

Post-galactico era, Real Madrid was in the doldrums. 2 sporadic league wins in 2007 and 2008 masked what was actually a team of flat track bullies.
Madrid had no "toughness", no playing identity, no "performers" and frankly speaking a team consisting of over-hyped prima donnas.
In comes Mourinho, with his reputation at its peak.

Season 1:

1. He purchases young, hungry players in Khedira, Ozil and Di Maria.
2. Openly challenges the authority of the sporting director and Perez's henchmen.
3. Diplomatically informs the team that they are a bunch of losers and that they need to listen to Mourinho.
4. Players, press and club officials start complaining about Mourinho's defensive, deep block counter attacking style.
5. Madrid play open football and lose 5-1 to Barcelona. This strengthens Mourinhos argument against those who were complaining about Madrid's defensive style.
6. Now Mourinho is King!!!
7. Team starts to play a little nasty.
8. Barca are still too strong in the league and CL but the team fights to win the Spanish Cup against what is probably one of the greatest sides ever.
9. Everyone thinks Mourinho was the right choice.

Season 2:

1. Mourinho signs Varane.
2. There is a siege mentality around Madrid.
3. Mourinho's team look and feel different. The players have hate in their hearts. They look like they'd rob you in a dark alley, not because they can, but because they have to. They are fueled by hatred: hatred of Barca, hatred of UEFA, hatred of the Barca-humping press.
4. The team plays like a machine. Drop deep, 9 outfielders behind the ball, outlet is either Di Maria or Ronaldo, win ball, 4-5 rapid passes and its Gooooooaaaaaal!
5. Lose CL to a fantastic Bayern Munich. Players look mentally shot. Winning the 2012 CL was supposed to be the peak of their careers. They may not get a chance again.
6. Play on auto-pilot and win La Liga.
7. Mourinho makes it all about himself ... and he is right!
8. Everyone loves Mourinho.

Season 3:

1. Mourinho signs Modric. Plays him mainly as a substitute attacker, just behind the striker.
2. Ronaldo gets into a contract war with the club. Is not playing well. Di Maria and Ozil become lazy. Casillas and Ramos are making stupid defensive mistakes.
3. Slow start to the season. Mourinho should have used more of his substitutes and benched some of his starters.
4. Hunger seems to have gone. Players seem lethargic.
5. Captain Casillas is rumored to be leaking dressing room secrets through his journalist wife. Is confronted by Mourinho and subsequently the team splits into pro/anti Mourinho groups.
6. Almost all players side with the Casillas-Ramos alliance.
7. After that everyone is playing on auto-pilot. Everyone knows that Mourinho will leave at the end of the season.
8. 1% of the fans want Casillas/Ramos/Pepe gone, 60% of the fans want Mourinho gone and 39% of the fans want to punch Mourinho in the face.
9. This should have been the season where we won the double. Instead it became a soap opera with all in-fighting and distractions.

Conclusion:
Mourinho is a good coach when:

1. You can't sell your expensive players and you have to bully your prima donnas into performing.
2. Players are convinced that they are losers, the world hates them and the football pitch is actually a war zone.

Enjoyed reading that, cheers

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Ancelotti's aproach to player management, the fans and the media was completely opposite to Mouronho's. Ancelotti's team also played completely different football. I don't see how is Mourinho crucial for Ancelotti's success. It's one of the things that are constantly repeated by people who don't follow the team closely (imo).

Maybe it has to do with the stack of players Mourinho brought/purchases to the team and trained.

 

[Hamadovich86]

This thread is making me lose hope with Mourinho even more. There is no other player like Ronaldo to base a counter attacking team on so what is the best we can expect from Mourinho? It seems like his Inter days are long gone where players were ruthlessly loyal to him. Man I can only hope for the best, I cant see an available alternative who will win straight away with United so no point in sacking him now.

 

[Cheesy]

I recall them always being a lot more attacking than a typical Mourinho team is, but that was largely because they were so filled with quality that they were capable of blowing most teams they came up against out of the water. In such situations even the most conservative manager wouldn’t have been able to justify defensive football. Especially at a club who once sacked a title-winning manager because his side was boring to watch.

I’m not sure his spell though is particularly ‘underrated’ though, either. He was up against a phenomenal Guardiola team, yes, but he was brought in there for the specific purpose of besting them, and had an insane amount of money to spend as well. His eventual La Liga success should be commended but by all accounts things started to fall apart in 12/13. I don’t really subscribe to the idea it ‘broke’ him mentally or anything, but he’s definitely been nowhere near as successful since then, and it was the first big job he had where he lost out on more league titles than he won. The Mourinho-Guardiola dynamic’s quite interesting in that regard – Guardiola was the first manager who I think really looked like he had the better of him, but conversely Mourinho reversed that in 11/12 and until last season was the only manager to have beaten him to a league title.

 

[berbatrick]

His time at Madrid coincided with Ronaldo's peak (also Messi's peak), and with excellent form for Alonso, di Maria, Ozil, and (sporadically) Benzema/Higuain.
He seemed to have coached them into an amazing counter-attacking unit, though their actual buildup and defending wasn't totally top-notch, they could kill anyone with speed. Their transitions were far far better than anything of Jose at United (and easily comparable if not better than the best SAF teams).

He did fairly well against the second-tier La Liga clubs - Ronaldo regularly murdered Valencia and Sevilla on the break, they did relatively ok againt Barca - after the 1st historic humiliation and some ultra-defensive shit, he managed to find a aggressive-press+quick counter game that could disrupt Barca. They didn't do well against quality European opposition, who could pass the life out of them (like Bayern in 2012) or Klopp's Dortmund (who executed the same strategy with even higher intensity). In fact I cannot remember a single impressive win against a big European team (they needed the ref to get past a middling United side). But they were (as expected) devastating against less-prepared opponents whom they could counter against.

Everything fell apart in the last season - opposition teams denied them space to counter by sitting deep, multiple player revolts, etc.

 

[Theonas]

Post-galactico era, Real Madrid was in the doldrums. 2 sporadic league wins in 2007 and 2008 masked what was actually a team of flat track bullies.
Madrid had no "toughness", no playing identity, no "performers" and frankly speaking a team consisting of over-hyped prima donnas.
In comes Mourinho, with his reputation at its peak.

Season 1:

1. He purchases young, hungry players in Khedira, Ozil and Di Maria.
2. Openly challenges the authority of the sporting director and Perez's henchmen.
3. Diplomatically informs the team that they are a bunch of losers and that they need to listen to Mourinho.
4. Players, press and club officials start complaining about Mourinho's defensive, deep block counter attacking style.
5. Madrid play open football and lose 5-1 to Barcelona. This strengthens Mourinhos argument against those who were complaining about Madrid's defensive style.
6. Now Mourinho is King!!!
7. Team starts to play a little nasty.
8. Barca are still too strong in the league and CL but the team fights to win the Spanish Cup against what is probably one of the greatest sides ever.
9. Everyone thinks Mourinho was the right choice.

Season 2:

1. Mourinho signs Varane.
2. There is a siege mentality around Madrid.
3. Mourinho's team look and feel different. The players have hate in their hearts. They look like they'd rob you in a dark alley, not because they can, but because they have to. They are fueled by hatred: hatred of Barca, hatred of UEFA, hatred of the Barca-humping press.
4. The team plays like a machine. Drop deep, 9 outfielders behind the ball, outlet is either Di Maria or Ronaldo, win ball, 4-5 rapid passes and its Gooooooaaaaaal!
5. Lose CL to a fantastic Bayern Munich. Players look mentally shot. Winning the 2012 CL was supposed to be the peak of their careers. They may not get a chance again.
6. Play on auto-pilot and win La Liga.
7. Mourinho makes it all about himself ... and he is right!
8. Everyone loves Mourinho.

Season 3:

1. Mourinho signs Modric. Plays him mainly as a substitute attacker, just behind the striker.
2. Ronaldo gets into a contract war with the club. Is not playing well. Di Maria and Ozil become lazy. Casillas and Ramos are making stupid defensive mistakes.
3. Slow start to the season. Mourinho should have used more of his substitutes and benched some of his starters.
4. Hunger seems to have gone. Players seem lethargic.
5. Captain Casillas is rumored to be leaking dressing room secrets through his journalist wife. Is confronted by Mourinho and subsequently the team splits into pro/anti Mourinho groups.
6. Almost all players side with the Casillas-Ramos alliance.
7. After that everyone is playing on auto-pilot. Everyone knows that Mourinho will leave at the end of the season.
8. 1% of the fans want Casillas/Ramos/Pepe gone, 60% of the fans want Mourinho gone and 39% of the fans want to punch Mourinho in the face.
9. This should have been the season where we won the double. Instead it became a soap opera with all in-fighting and distractions.

Conclusion:
Mourinho is a good coach when:

1. You can't sell your expensive players and you have to bully your prima donnas into performing.
2. Players are convinced that they are losers, the world hates them and the football pitch is actually a war zone.

You are quite the storyteller

 

[bosnian_red]

They scored a lot of goals that one season, but ultimately in THE big games, he went defensive. In Spain, Madrid had such a good squad though that he didn't have to go defensive in as many games as he does now. When you have the likes of Ronaldo... it's easy to blow teams out of the water. They manage themselves half the time. Problem is though that against anyone somewhat on the same level, he'll go conservative and make them into a nasty team to grind out a result. Never will his side fully outplay another big side. It will always be clinical on the break, organized defensively and low possession. That wasn't acceptable at Real Madrid and they never fully took to him, and will never be acceptable here so we'll never fully take to him either.

 

[Topgun1]

Those 2 teams were in their prime back then. Bayern now compared to then is miles behind and BVB are in an even worse state

That's simply false. Bayern went on to lose to Chelsea in the final and Dortmund went on to lose to Bayern in the final. Neither of those two teams were anything special, in fact, when Mourinho's Madrid finally played attacking football in the second leg, they completely outplayed Dortmund but it was already too late. It was just pathetic.

Just to make it clear, the comparison is between Mourinho's Madrid to Ancelloti's and Zidane's.

 

[giorno]

Mh, keep in mind, it's not quite the same thing playing with a deep line and playing defensive. We played with a deep line in large part to invite the opposition forward and create space behind their defence we could exploit

For example, H2H aside, Barcelona were actually a more defensive side than us in those seasons

 

[Theonas]

They scored a lot of goals that one season, but ultimately in THE big games, he went defensive. In Spain, Madrid had such a good squad though that he didn't have to go defensive in as many games as he does now. When you have the likes of Ronaldo... it's easy to blow teams out of the water. They manage themselves half the time. Problem is though that against anyone somewhat on the same level, he'll go conservative and make them into a nasty team to grind out a result. Never will his side fully outplay another big side. It will always be clinical on the break, organized defensively and low possession. That wasn't acceptable at Real Madrid and they never fully took to him, and will never be acceptable here so we'll never fully take to him either.

There are obviously much more to it than that which a lot of posters have eloquently touched upon already in this thread, but that's pretty much sums it up perfectly. I highlighted that part because I think it is one that particularly divides fans. His fans would use it to defend him as in the "he only does it in the big games" defense. This misses the point some of his critics make completely. It assumes that the problem is aesthetics and therefore claims that Mourinho will or at least is capable of entertaining you most of the time so there is no reason to complain. The problem however is about ego and prestige more than anything. It is exactly in those big games that big players and clubs make their name and build their legend. Real Madrid could outplay anyone in the world but it still would have felt inferior and a hit to their ego knowing that when it comes to their arch rivals, all they can do is be their beta, the ones cast in the role of "how will they deal with them".

You are absolutely right that Real Madrid were never going to tolerate that long term, they just have too much pride, one can even argue, misguided pride. I am not sure however about us. We are English and the English football culture has always been more comfortable with winning through hard work and spoiling it for the more technically skilled. Just look at how much delight the press and fans will take from a backs against the wall performance full of heroic defending. Even Mourinho, one can argue had his most positive press in England as he almost vindicated the mentality, if not necessarily, the specific tactics. The home grown managers in the league would look at him as an example that their vision of the game has indeed a high ceiling and that you do not necessarily have to over complicate offensive tactics to be one of the best. We exist in the middle of that ingrained ideology and the pressure of thinking and acting like the elite of Europe because whether we like it or not, we belong to them.

 

[Peyroteo]

Mh, keep in mind, it's not quite the same thing playing with a deep line and playing defensive. We played with a deep line in large part to invite the opposition forward and create space behind their defence we could exploit

For example, H2H aside, Barcelona were actually a more defensive side than us in those seasons

Isn't that exactly what playing defensive means? They sat back, let other teams' attack and then counterattacked.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Interesting post. I wonder why some of those sounds so familiar here...

because it was written in the context of the last few days, so all the language and bias is to make it obvious that what happened with mourinho in the last few months was obviously always going to happen.

 

[Cloud7]

It’s funny that so many United fans are in this thread reminiscing so much more fondly on Mourinho’s time at real than the actual Madrid fans

 

[Jim Beam]

I remember that ugly first leg semi-final game, but I also remember few games where they were clearly a better and more exciting side than that peak Barcelona. It does have something to do with the individual quality they possessed, but their transition and counter were also brilliant.

 

[giorno]

Isn't that exactly what playing defensive means? They sat back, let other teams' attack and then counterattacked.

It's ultimately about mentality. If your mentality is to first not concede goals, you're playing defensive. Whether you do it by playing with the defence on the goal line and all of plymouth in the box or take over the ball and spend 90 minutes passing it horizontally in the opposition's half doesn't change that

If you play with a deep defensive line but your mentality is to focus on winning the ball back and quickly break on the counter to score goals, you're not playing defensive

 

[El Pasillo]

His time at Madrid coincided with Ronaldo's peak (also Messi's peak), and with excellent form for Alonso, di Maria, Ozil, and (sporadically) Benzema/Higuain.

Not entirely true. Di Maria used to be really inconsistent af during that period, having a 1 great game in a while and having several mediocre/poor games.

To be fair, he was Real Madrid's best player during those last 6 months at the club. But that happened when Ancelotti was in charge tho.

Regarding Özil, he was a class player but usually didn't turned up in big games for them.

But I've no idea on Benzema/Higuain's 'sporadically' form when they scored 20 goals and challenging for a starting spot as a CF.

 

[giorno]

Not entirely true. Di Maria used to be really inconsistent af during that period, having a 1 great game in a while and having several mediocre/poor games.

To be fair, he was Real Madrid's best player during those last 6 months at the club. But that happened when Ancelotti was in charge.

Regarding Özil, he was a class player for Mou's Madrid but usually didn't turned up in big games for them despite being consistently.

But I've no idea for the idea on Benzema/Higuain's 'sporadically' form when they scored 20 goals and challenging for a starting spot as a CF.

Mourinho was never very fond of Benzema, nor Higuain. He wanted Diego Milito when he was hired and he spent the first two seasons asking for another striker...got adebayor on loan for 6 months...

 

[Tahiri]

I don't think people here remember well Mourinho's spell at Real Madrid! Bias comes from remembering the past with the present's eyes and feelings.

First year team played very organized but struggled against packed defences, espacially against small teams! Team lacked psychlogical resilience but victory against Barça in Copa del Rey final was a turnaround! In CL, stopped by Barça in semi finals.

Second year was almost perfect. Team played amazing attacking football, quick transitions in small spaces, long balls! They destroyed packed defences. It was beautiful to watch though attacking style was opposite of tiki-taka. They played organized but attacking football against Valencia Sevilla Atletico Madrid Bilbao and Villareal except for Barca (but Messi is Messi...). In CL, they had a very convincing competition but were stopped by Bayern (penalties). Second leg was beautiful but during second half real madrid players were tired especially after playing 2 days before a final in la liga against Barca while Bayern had been resting his players for weeks (Bundesliga already won).

Third year was not good: players lacked motivation, became lazier! Tensions appeared inside the dressing room and Mourinho lost many players.

I guess second spell at Chelsea was about the same. First year: very organised and defensive team. Second year: beautiful attacking football even away against good sides. But loss away against Tottenham (5-3) and Fabregas being injured, the team just defended its points advantage during the second part of the season. 3rd year: lack of motivation, aging players and Mourinho's father health concern => abysmal performances.

I guess for MU it will takes two years fir Mourinho to get his team to be well organized and disciplined. Attacking football should come next year if Mourinho has confidence in his players

 

[Florida Man]

@Skills
@JoaquinJoaquin

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Special-One-Dark-Side-Mourinho-ebook/dp/B00EXB7046

Online just has the well-known excerpts, but from top of my head.. the following were also key issues during his time (probably best to ask the spanish posters to see how much of it was in the media at the time to verify it):

• Favouritism to Coentrao who he brought in to replace Marcelo (the world's best left back) even though he was not training properly, performing badly and an outcast in the squad.. he was seen as one of his trusted players
• Complete fall out with the likes of Ramos and Casillas due to the whole you must not fraternising with the enemy at NT meet ups
• Destruction of his relationship with Ronaldo.. they were close at first due to Mendes connection, but Ronaldo detested his defensive approach, and sensed how rest of squad was not happy with him and decided to distance himself and develop his bond with the spanish contingent
• Continuous theme of the failure to coach attacking strategies against teams which were parking the bus and nullifying their counter-attacking football, players not happy with how Barca getting lots of praise and how they were getting little to no education on how to play patterns of play when facing smaller sides
• Growing divide between him and Mendes (who aligned himself with Ronaldo) and put less faith in Jose (hence the lack of Mendes clients you see being bought by Jose these days)
• Peculiar love/hate relationship with Perez. Perez at times bent over backwards to back him and was very reluctant to part with him and tried his best to ensure the fractious relationship he had with his players was smoothed over. In the end, his position was untenable and he faced mutiny from most of the squad.
• Similar to Bayern under Ancellotti, the players at times got together and formed their own strategies/decided to pull together for the good of the team prior to key games and Jose was increasingly becoming a puppet manager
• Jose was generally playing up alot, using mind games on the squad, random selections/dropping of players and vilifying players in order to make points to the media (Pedro Leon/Benzema).. many of the players saw through it and didn't see the logic behind it, which led to them not respecting and distrusting him
• Likes of Essien were completely isolated by the squad, due to their perceived notion that these players were 'Mourinho's' men and not to be trusted, as they'd feed info back to the manager.

Failure to come up with attacking strategies



New-found obsession with championing his own brand of football over winning (some from Torres/Some from Wilson)




The Tale of the Mole



Betrayal of his sergeant 'Pepe'

Cheers for that. Granted there may be a certain slant from the author’s perspective, these passages were really insightful. I almost feel like I’m reading about the Donald Trump of football when it concerns loyalty and mind games to convey who’s “in charge”.

 

[tjb]

People really should be objective. His Real Madrid are possibly one of the best counter attacking teams of all time, that could play possession but conceded more than the average Mourinho team. They had guys who could create in ozil and di maria, a solid base in khedira and xabi alonso, goalscorers in higuain, benzema and ronaldo, and full backs that overlapped. People who say this team were defensive in anyway, except against Barcelona, are not being fair to Mourinho. They were offensive in both legs against us, Bayern, Man City etc. So it had absolutely nothing to do with the opposition either. People also like to forget that at Chelsea the second time round, his team did play attractive football in his second season ( well half of it), and even at utd, for parts of last season and early this season, we played good football. So in my opinion, Mourinho doesn't have a problem with playing attacking football as long as his team is solid. Unlike a Klopp or a Wenger, he assesses the quality of his team, and if he sees that our opponents are more likely to score than we are if the game is open, he tries to shut the game down and picking his spots. So our issue is not an issue of tactics, its an issue of quality. Mourinho simply does not trust our attack to outgun stronger opponents or he does not trust our defences ability to defend against stronger opposition without support from the rest of the team.

 

[Shaun Lawson]

I don't know if you read the Diego Torres book about his time at Madrid.. but wow if even 10% of that book is true, then I can see why he's never been the same since. Also the character traits exhibited by Jose during his spell there, really do not paint him in a flattering light.

That book is marvellous! I'd had my eyes opened to the reality of Mourinho a year or so before it was published (around the time of the CL semi v Bayern rightly cited by others on this thread), but drew on it extensively in something I wrote here, just after he left Chelsea the second time around.

It's a mammoth piece, so should really only be read by those seeking an insomnia cure at this time of night. But I stand by it absolutely.

https://medium.com/@shaunjlawson/de...ever-happened-to-the-special-one-fcbc9deecaa7

 

[Ekeke]

Fans of La Liga/Real Madrid;

How did Real Madrid play under Jose i.e. was it defensive minded as it is at Utd?

I seriously don't remember Real Madrid being that negative under him?

With Utd, is it maybe a case of "I don't trust Smalling, any of the leftbacks so I will set up to win first"?

Or am I clutching at straws? I am usually extremely Pro Jose and believe he needs time because for me his in game management is still top notch but last night seriously raised some questions.

So yeah, Jose's Real Madrid - didn't they score a record number of goals or did I imagine that?

You're clutching at straws, not because of the idea that Madrid were most positive - they were. But that you needed to include Chris Smalling's name here. Rubbish

 

[BigBebe]

That book is marvellous! I'd had my eyes opened to the reality of Mourinho a year or so before it was published (around the time of the CL semi v Bayern rightly cited by others on this thread), but drew on it extensively in something I wrote here, just after he left Chelsea the second time around.

It's a mammoth piece, so should really only be read by those seeking an insomnia cure at this time of night. But I stand by it absolutely.

https://medium.com/@shaunjlawson/deconstructing-josé-whatever-happened-to-the-special-one-fcbc9deecaa7

That's a great read, thanks for posting.

 

[GM K]

Fans of La Liga/Real Madrid;

How did Real Madrid play under Jose i.e. was it defensive minded as it is at Utd?

I seriously don't remember Real Madrid being that negative under him?

With Utd, is it maybe a case of "I don't trust Smalling, any of the leftbacks so I will set up to win first"?

Or am I clutching at straws? I am usually extremely Pro Jose and believe he needs time because for me his in game management is still top notch but last night seriously raised some questions.

So yeah, Jose's Real Madrid - didn't they score a record number of goals or did I imagine that?

Mourinho's Madrid was very deadly but had the bad luck of being up against the greatest Barcelona team of all time led by the incredibly gifted Messi, Iniesta, Xavi and Puyol.

It was the strongest counter attacking team in world football in my opinion. Ronaldo, Ozil, Benzema / Higuain and De Maria could cut through any team in devastating counter attacking fashion. The problem was Barcelona. After Madrid was humiliated in Jose's first game at the Nou Camp, he decided he was never going to go toe to toe attack wise against Barcelona. His strategy became to defend deep and tight and hit hard on the counter. In fairness, it was the only strategy that made sense against that conquering Barca team. Many will however argue that in certain instances, that conservative approach against Barcelona, was taken too far.

Placed side by side against Barca's tiki taka football, Jose's Madrid looked like a mere efficient machine rather than an entertainment juggernaut. But it was not at all a boring team.

If he gets his way at United, there is no doubt in my mind that he will build a very formidable team, one which will not possess the beauty of a Pep team but will be a ruthless fighting machine. The challenge is this: when building and leading such a team, Jose is often prepared to trample on anyone who doesn't get in line with his ideas and this includes his own players, fans, media, opposition managers, etc. If he wins while doing so, everything will be fine but once results start going bad, things turn sour pretty quickly.

 

[haram]

Barca were actually boring to watch. Real team that won the title were very exciting.

 

[Santoryo]

It’s funny that so many United fans are in this thread reminiscing so much more fondly on Mourinho’s time at real than the actual Madrid fans

 

[Kostov]

I read and respect what Real Madrid fans have to say and criticize Mourinho over what he did and how he did it. I haven't read a lot about his spell in Madrid so can't comment.

But how can this Madrid side with all this attacking power and talent and big name signing can only win 2 league titles in 10 years and one of which is with Mourinho? I read a lot how that is attributed to Ronaldo having a extraordinary season, but he has those for 10 fecking years. Then how he was negative vs Barca and yet you get spanked by them almost every year with or without Mourinho. It's a bit strange and I feel Jose is not getting enough credit for what he did.

 

[GM K]

Ancelotti's aproach to player management, the fans and the media was completely opposite to Mouronho's. Ancelotti's team also played completely different football. I don't see how is Mourinho crucial for Ancelotti's success. It's one of the things that are constantly repeated by people who don't follow the team closely (imo).

I agree with your points about Ancellotti. Spot on. But you seem to underestimate Mourinho's role in that success. Before Jose for to Madrid, they had been knocked out of the CL in the second round six or eight times consecutively (can't remember how many times exactly but at least six times). Jose took that team to the Semi Finals three times. I think that was very significant. Add that to the fact that they had gotten a lot closer to the best team in the world domestically. They had become almost level with Barcelona than they were in a long time. They had one the league for the first time in about four seasons. And Ronaldo, without taking away the talent and success he had before Jose arrived, had become more deadly with the support of Mesut Ozil and Kareem Benzema. I think Jose left Madrid with a very solid spine. Ancellotti's brilliant team management and change in tactics, pushed them from that semi final level to the La Decima.

I see the same thing happening at United now. Jose is doing some dirty foundational work at the moment. His conservative approach in some big games and his fighting in the media are blinding many people from seeing how much the team is improving. If he leaves today, the next manager will be a very happy man because the team is gradually developing a strong core and a tough mentality.

Jose's conservative, uncompromising, taskmaster, approach to management is perhaps his buggest albatross.

 

[ZAGREB RED]

Quite intrigued by the Diego Torres book on Mourinho's time at Real, ordered it off Amazon, just waiting for it to arrive.

 

[Dominant]

I’m not sure his spell though is particularly ‘underrated’ though, either. He was up against a phenomenal Guardiola team, yes, but he was brought in there for the specific purpose of besting them, and had an insane amount of money to spend as well. His eventual La Liga success should be commended but by all accounts things started to fall apart in 12/13. I don’t really subscribe to the idea it ‘broke’ him mentally or anything, but he’s definitely been nowhere near as successful since then, and it was the first big job he had where he lost out on more league titles than he won. The Mourinho-Guardiola dynamic’s quite interesting in that regard – Guardiola was the first manager who I think really looked like he had the better of him, but conversely Mourinho reversed that in 11/12 and until last season was the only manager to have beaten him to a league title.

So no one is going to point out this gross inaccuracy?
So We did not beat Mourinho's Chelsea to the league title in 2006/2007?
Or Man City did not win the league in 2013-2014 when Mourinho is at Chelsea?
Or Leicester winning the league in 2015-2016 and Mourinho was sacked by Chelsea?

 

[Kostov]

So no one is going to point out this gross inaccuracy?
So We did not beat Mourinho's Chelsea to the league title in 2006/2007?
Or Man City did not win the league in 2013-2014 when Mourinho is at Chelsea?
Or Leicester winning the league in 2015-2016 and Mourinho was sacked by Chelsea?

He is referring about Pep, not Jose.

 

[giorno]

But how can this Madrid side with all this attacking power and talent and big name signing can only win 2 league titles in 10 years and one of which is with Mourinho? I read a lot how that is attributed to Ronaldo having a extraordinary season, but he has those for 10 fecking years. Then how he was negative vs Barca and yet you get spanked by them almost every year with or without Mourinho. It's a bit strange and I feel Jose is not getting enough credit for what he did.

Because we consistently went up against an even better team in barcelona. The 3 years they weren't better than us, for various reasons, we won, with the exception of 13/14 were choose not go hard for the league at the end to save energy for the CL. Mourinho, like Zidane last season, just happened to peak at the right time

He still failed in terms of initial expectations -he was hired to win the CL first and foremost afterall - his final season was catastrophic, and the two guys that followed him did better than him

I agree with your points about Ancellotti. Spot on. But you seem to underestimate Mourinho's role in that success. Before Jose for to Madrid, they had been knocked out of the CL in the second round six or eight times consecutively (can't remember how many times exactly but at least six times). Jose took that team to the Semi Finals three times. I think that was very significant. Add that to the fact that they had gotten a lot closer to the best team in the world domestically. They had become almost level with Barcelona than they were in a long time. They had one the league for the first time in about four seasons. And Ronaldo, without taking away the talent and success he had before Jose arrived, had become more deadly with the support of Mesut Ozil and Kareem Benzema. I think Jose left Madrid with a very solid spine. Ancellotti's brilliant team management and change in tactics, pushed them from that semi final level to the La Decima.

I see the same thing happening at United now. Jose is doing some dirty foundational work at the moment. His conservative approach in some big games and his fighting in the media are blinding many people from seeing how much the team is improving. If he leaves today, the next manager will be a very happy man because the team is gradually developing a strong core and a tough mentality.

Jose's conservative, uncompromising, taskmaster, approach to management is perhaps his buggest albatross.

Great post. Spot on when it comes to his influence on real madrid's recent success

 

[Cheesy]

So no one is going to point out this gross inaccuracy?
So We did not beat Mourinho's Chelsea to the league title in 2006/2007?
Or Man City did not win the league in 2013-2014 when Mourinho is at Chelsea?
Or Leicester winning the league in 2015-2016 and Mourinho was sacked by Chelsea?

I'm discussing Mourinho having been the only manager to have beaten Pep to a title until last season.

 

[Kostov]

Because we consistently went up against an even better team in barcelona. The 3 years they weren't better than us, for various reasons, we won, with the exception of 13/14 were choose not go hard for the league at the end to save energy for the CL. Mourinho, like Zidane last season, just happened to peak at the right time

He still failed in terms of initial expectations -he was hired to win the CL first and foremost afterall - his final season was catastrophic, and the two guys that followed him did better than him

Just happened to peak at the right time? I think you are underestimating the task he was having back then. That Barca team was much more dominant than the one Zidane is facing right now. He beat Barcelona at their absolute peak in my opinion.

I didn't know his primary target was the CL, since you haven't won the league since Capello and rarely got past the 1/8 in the CL if I'm not mistaken.

 

[giorno]

Just happened to peak at the right time? I think you are underestimating the task he was having back then. That Barca team was much more dominant than the one Zidane is facing right now. He beat Barcelona at their absolute peak in my opinion.

Nope, he beat barcelona to the title the season Guardiola's cycle ended. Besides Messi being at his best, that team had lost all hunger and motivation, beginning with Guardiola himself. Well we set records that season anyways, so it wasn't just a matter of barcelona being less than they'd been the previous 2 seasons. But it sure helped

I didn't know his primary target was the CL, since you haven't won the league since Capello and rarely got past the 1/8 in the CL if I'm not mistaken.

Real Madrid's primary target is always the CL. Especially given we hadn't won it since 2002 and were coming off 6 straight rd16 eliminations. Unacceptable for real madrid

Btw, last league title before 2012 was 2008 with Schuster

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I'm reading Preparense Para Perder, the book on Mourinho's time in Madrid, at the moment and it's not great reading.

The author, Diego Torres (who writes for El Pais, one of the country's best papers) makes a number of damning claims, apparently based on a source in the dressing room.

He claims that:

• Mou gave Mendes's players preferential treatment and allowed him privileged access to the training ground.
• He told players to go out and blame referees whenever they lost.
• He used to give Ronaldo special treatment but then turned on him for no reason.
• The players hated his negative tactics and they only started winning when they began to ignore him.
• He told them not to try and win the second leg against Barca in the 2010-11 CL, so he could blame the referees.

There seems to be a lot of speculation about who the mole is. My guess is Casillas but another candidate often spoken out is Higuain, who's Argentinian, like Torres himself.

I don't believe all of it is true - not even Mou's biggest critics would claim he's as bad a coach as Torres makes out - but it's all worryingly familiar with what we've seen at United these past two years.

EDIT: Apologies, just seen this has been covered above!

That's not true

 

[haram]

I'm discussing Mourinho having been the only manager to have beaten Pep to a title until last season.

I thought he said 'retain'. Meaning stopping Pep winning back to back titles.

Edit - might have been a different thread