Bang on.
Jose saving his skin - yet again.. (Manager v Players blame game)
- Thread starter Raees
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Where is question of crediting or discrediting about Lukaku? You said Mourinho plays tumescent football despite spending 300M. So I gave you attacking players he bought and how they have done.
Nobody doubts our attacking play needs to get better. Blaming it solely on Mourinho and presenting that as a key reason for sack is the problem I have.
Bayern won't touch him. Out of question.Given that he said "I could be at a club in a different country with the league in my pocket right now, the kind of league you win before it starts, but I am here and will be for a long time", based on a simple Freudian analysis we can conclude he's off to PSG.
.....or .. BAYERN?!
PSG too is highly unlikely imo given the profile they're building towards but yeah, still a chance.
A huge difference in what SAF said then and what Mourinho has been spouting off the last couple of matches. SAF talks about Aberdeen like he is part of the club. Mourinho said that United are used to nights like Sevilla and it's not a big deal to lose to them. Night and day if you ask me.
Except that isn't what Mourinho said at all.
Mourinho was getting shit from all sides, fans, media, pundits, ex players and simply told the fact, United have been knocked out plenty of times in the last sixteen earlier, it happens. And considering the last 7 years in Europe, it's hardly surprising.
Get your knickers in a twist all you like, but that's the truth of it.
No we don't want to put reactionary football always but I don't agree that we were in position to take a jump to being great football wise and results wise, two years ago. Mourinho is not blameless but isn't the only one who should be blamed either. If he says he doesn't need any more attacking players, then he will have to improve on their cohesion next season and players will have to start playing with more responsibility as well.
CelticGiven that he said "I could be at a club in a different country with the league in my pocket right now, the kind of league you win before it starts, but I am here and will be for a long time", based on a simple Freudian analysis we can conclude he's off to PSG.
.....or .. BAYERN?!
Really? He didn't say that we aren't good enough to win the CL and would have likely gone out in the QFs. He then asked the journo what's the difference between going out in the R16 and QFs.
Defend his statements all you like, the guy is only about himself and couldn't care two fecks about the club.
It’s not bang on at all. Most of the first team is Jose’s signings. He’s fecked up if they’re not good enough. No manager gets to sign an entire new squad. Even Pep’s having to deal with some average players like Otamendi, Fernandinho, Sterling, and Delph (though the revisionism around here suggests they’ve always been world class players).
And we know that he has quality to work with. I would put money on Pogba, Sanchez and Martial scoring and assisting double figures if they were in the City team (just like KdB, Sane and Sterling have).
No chance. That's Jose magically getting incredible results out of terrible players.I'd kind of get it if we were talking about him managing after SAF Scholes, Giggs, Becks, Keane, Stam, Yorke, Cole, Rooney et al, but this isn't it. This team is full of players that aren't good enough and never will be. Some are good enough but Mentally they are too weak to wear the shirt. One thing about the players in the past where their quality was questionable, their mentality never was.
Managers aren't clones and all will have a different approach to their work. All the great ones have a side that's unpleasant and unpalatable, and this is Jose but you don't get the winning mentality without his darker side. I don't mind it cause whilst he might have a style of play we don't like, the quality of players in their delivery of it is 100% them. It they don't like doing it, why stay. No players would sooner the manager left before they did. Maybe other managers might appease their players but whilst doing so, they have won feck all.
Yes we know about the city situation and Pep being able to do it but when does one person who is exceptional become the rule. That's like saying, why can't players be like Messi. That said and already said, Peps foundation was built on quality, ours was built on players that were surplus to requirements years ago and it's always been questionable whether they were good enough. The only person that that wasn't in question when Jose arrived was DDG. One player.....
Managers aren't clones and all will have a different approach to their work. All the great ones have a side that's unpleasant and unpalatable, and this is Jose but you don't get the winning mentality without his darker side. I don't mind it cause whilst he might have a style of play we don't like, the quality of players in their delivery of it is 100% them. It they don't like doing it, why stay. No players would sooner the manager left before they did. Maybe other managers might appease their players but whilst doing so, they have won feck all.
Yes we know about the city situation and Pep being able to do it but when does one person who is exceptional become the rule. That's like saying, why can't players be like Messi. That said and already said, Peps foundation was built on quality, ours was built on players that were surplus to requirements years ago and it's always been questionable whether they were good enough. The only person that that wasn't in question when Jose arrived was DDG. One player.....
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I don't like the thread title. I think Jose has his flaws, but so do the players. Give him a chance, too early to decide this yet.
Dount he will ever be hired there. PSG want entertaining football and want to win the CL.
I dislike Mou but I do agree with this + also his big presser defence. Our squad smacks of modern day footballers, obsessed with instagram, twitter and building their 'brand'. When opinion goes against them they shrink. We don't need 11 Roy Keane's but we need players with big personalities, leadership and controlled aggression mixed in with the current crop.
Like or dislike Mou, he never hides. He's always fighting (whether you agree with him or not) and this is what he likes in players. That's what we want from our players as well surely.
Like or dislike Mou, he never hides. He's always fighting (whether you agree with him or not) and this is what he likes in players. That's what we want from our players as well surely.
Mourinho, over the last 3 years in management has not shown that he can play proactive football. His Madrid side were feared on the counter but then he had players like Modric, Ronaldo, Bale etc at their peak. Don't think we have the same quality. If he needs exactly those standards of players to play good football, then many other top managers in the world are better than him as they do better with lesser players.
I hate to compare but look at Pochettino and compare Spurs to how we play football. Yes we won two trophies last season but Spurs could easily be winning the FA cup this season while playing much better than us. I refuse to believe their squad is better than us yet here we are.
To be honest, I'm surprised by some reactions. We are Manchester United fans not fans of the players or the managers, these people will come and go while we will stay. Mourinho admitted that he can't get through the players mentally and tactically, that's basically the crux of his rant, people really need to think about what it means for a manager in general, that's the worst thing a manager can say about himself and his abilities.
Most of them seem to be new members apart from the usual one-eyed clowns.Some of Jose defenders
I'll make a bet. Jose will never win the title here or the CL even if given another year to rebuild.. he will probably get 11 new signings and they will all revolt against him too. He will face revolts where ever he goes to after us because he's toxic end of.
Also the Salah and KDB feck ups.. overlooked it like many, but not now that we might be losing talents like Martial through his mismanagement. Yet the fans think it's Jose who is the more valuable asset. The guy who has only Pogba in revolt has ended with most of the squad in revolt .. Mata was a face of thunder walking off the pitch. The players don't trust him. He's a snake.
Bloody ell. Otamendi cost like 50 million euros didn't he? And this place was up in arms when we didn't sign him.
Fernandinho has always been a very good player, and Sterling is still just 23, cost a shit load from a rival that was desperate not to sell. Pep has done a great job with these players, no doubt about that at all, but let's not make out they are or have ever been "average".
Completely agree with what you said. If he cannot get through his instructions to players after nearly two seasons, then maybe he isn't the man for the job.
Take a look in the mirror Raees.
These players saw off the magnificent Moyes and Van Gaal.. what cnuts we would have been world beaters if they had tried more under those guys.
Didn't watch the match but what is it about this Mata incident and Lukaku saying there will be a lot of new players in the summer?
jose signed bailly, lindelof, matic, pogba, mkhitaryan, sanchez, lukaku, promoted mctominay and loves fellaini, your left with the wing backs as the only position mourinho hasn't got in the players he may want and if you want to moan about the players mentality then you have to question mourinho's transfer dealings as he brought in and favoured many of them, even if mourinho get's his way this summer and signs another 3 or 4 players and continues to play defensively, he and his fanclub will still blame the players when it backfires.
No need. I'm 100% right in this instance. I'll stake my membership to this forum on it. Yes the players have some blame attached but it is mostly manager to blame here and more greater squads than ours filled with great players who went onto win massive titles deserted him.
The second greatest player in modern game Ronaldo also deserted him because he didn't buy into his methods and saw through his shit.
Wrong, Otamendi was seen as an expensive flop, go and look at the relief in the posts here after seeing him play, yet he looks exceptional in Peps system. Fernandinho is nothing special, he was part of a City team that scraped fourth ahead of us just before Pep came in. Sterling - that’s the revisionism, most here had Martial and Rashford ahead of him (and Sane too). He was a headless chicken. None of them supposedly would not have gotten into our team, and yet are flourishing under Pep.
Of course not. Was a tongue in cheek post. Apart from the obvious footballing reasons, he's a no go ever since he decided to shit on our club numerous times for no reason other than his obsession with Guardiola.
I am absolutely sure Jose will not win EPL or CL next season. I am also sure that Pep will continue to do better than Jose while in England. I am also sure that the goal for United is winning at least one of these two trophies. To be the best you need to win against the best. We are far from that.
As much as people want him sacked, if we win the cup with 2nd to a fantastic city side(we would be in for the title any other season) the manager ain't going nowhere.
Pochettino doesn't become a guarantee of getting results which we expect as well as playing attacking. He is at Spurs for 4 years. Along with positives then he also has to take blame for not winning title when Leicester did. I can list few other things but gist is that he is not someone who will come in and deliver big trophies of football while playing awesome immediately. Otherwise I like him too and will want to replace Mourinho but not for another year at least.
Just because they spent less it doesn't mean his quality of squad is worse. Kane and Eriksen are top class, Dembele has been fantastic and then there are good players like Alli and Son. At least their first XI is quite good.
Pochettino has improved his players. There's not many players who havr regressed under him. Mourinho on the other hand has seen Pogba, Martial and Sanchez all go off the boil simultaneously. Difficult to see it as a coincidence.
In sports management there is zero guarantee or at least there is rarely any guarantee, you are always taking a risk and you are always evaluating what you have and what you could have.
I actually agreed with what Mou's views. The player's performance in Brighton is far from satisfactory. They played casually, half of the passing were misplaced and these were not Mou's fault. My impression to the players, like Lingard and Martial, is that they have earned enough money and were not care about winning trophies, they will never work their socks off. Mou doesn't need to prove himself to be a winner because he is a winner. We need him to be tough to his players and he is exactly doing that. Mou is a 55 years old man while most of the players are 20 - 30 years old and they got talented but not mature. So when the team played badly, please don't always blame the manager. Today I am very disappointed to the performances of the players and the player should realise that they have to take the responsibility to play well on the pitch and not give so much misplaced pass, dribbling fails, confront with opponents, begging to referee, etc.
See this is the thing. Jose took a risk but it could be a calculated one. What he said, took the attention away from the players and the performance to a great degree. The performance was a disgrace but by him taking heat, you can win favor with players that way. You can potentially get more out of players BUT to be honest, I think people have short memories. At times we've played fine and scored goals. It's just that we're not quite there. Spurs are an up coming team? Liverpool have good attacking options? Chelsea are always capable? We're above all of them and secondly only to that other plastic club. The Sevilla game was a disaster but let's be honest. The only way for us to win it would have been to fluke it. We need to get rid of the dross. We need to promote with intelligence and we need to bring in NUMBERS. We need new ideas. We stopped trying to evolve the team/squad and we've become stale. But many people react because of the performance or what have you. We're going in the right direction. We have decisions to make. We need better scouting. We need to make smarter decisions. So let's realize that we are short and we are trying to find that consistency. We've recently beaten Chelsea and Liverpool. Sevilla are not better then us. We just seemed lethargic but rebuilding the psychology and optimism of a football team isn't easy.
opcorngif:Hindsight is an exact science. Happens at every club and I'm sure when we sold CR for 80m, we never thought that they got him cheap. Players aren't paid to dictate what happens at the club, they are told as employees like everywhere else this is what you do. What happens in football is when they don't like what they are told to do, they stop doing it. The managers end up bowing to player power so loses any credibility in the dressing room or doesn't and loses the dressing room anyway. Which one do you want?
what is he trying to do is make 40 m euros in the summer when he get the boot.
We already discussed this point. If certain players can play well under him sometimes but do bad other times and then sulk, it is not manager who has made them worse. Most of the players here are having better seasons than before. Not a coincidence as well.
Yes that doesn't mean you chop and change every 2 years, especially if current manager is meeting targets set to him. Those asking for Poch are acting as if we will get trophies and beautiful football immediately with him. He may need and ask for his own 3 years.
No. We would be happy if he stepped up like a man and said that he has got it wrong.
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