You wouldn't know an attacking pattern if it was standing naked in front of you with a big sign saying "shag me".
Julian Nagelsmann | Sacked and replaced by Tuchel
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No chance we appoint a manager like Nagelsman and it’s too big a departure from Ole’s pragmatism.
We need someone to come in and completely change how we play but not going to happen because that’s what a football club would do. If we sacked Ole now we’d appoint Allegri. If it’s next season or year after we’d appoint whoever the equivalent out of contract manager is at the time.
We need someone to come in and completely change how we play but not going to happen because that’s what a football club would do. If we sacked Ole now we’d appoint Allegri. If it’s next season or year after we’d appoint whoever the equivalent out of contract manager is at the time.
He’s by far not a certainty, who knows how he’d shit himself and change tactics when we go three in a row without winning or get smashed by five goals. The premier league with United is a totally different challenge to what he’s ever seen, he may get his team playing well and have decent defensive record with the two centrebacks most teams in Europe would take and in the bundesleague but that means nothing to me when/if he came to the premier league with United
Wouldnt he be available now? If we wanted him make an offer to RB, or wait till he gets sacked? Doubt he’d run his contract out. So what do you mean the club doesn’t operate like that
For what its worth, I am in agreement that he is undoubtedly a better manager and one of the best young managers in world football.
But I believe Ole has done enough to continue his work, we're finally seeing benefits of long-term planning and squad building after 7+ years of chopping and changing every 2-3 years, which is probably still 3-4 quality players shy of a complete job. I hoped we had been a bit more aggressive last summer and got our targets rather than wait another 12 months.
If this was say, Jose who we know works in short-term 2-3 year cycles, I'd be all for it, but with it being Ole, who clearly wants the best for the club, is improving the squad and the attitudes of the players, I think it would be a wrong move to prematurely end his time here, when he's literally done what all pundits/experts and fans wanted last season, to improve on last season, to get closer to City and Liverpool.
Yeah, a more convincing overall concept wouldn't exactly hurt, but I think the job has tremendous upsides in any case. I remember Nagelsmann being in awe of playing at Old Trafford for the first time, even without fans. But sure, other clubs have plenty to offer as well. Who knows who will seriously consider him, and a lot is probably about timing too.
I watched his team in the CL. I really enjoyed that but yia I can't say have watched any Bundesliga other than their RBL games against Dortmund and Bayern.
To be fair I haven't seen that much of his play this season, I saw more for RBL. But from CL and the odd Bundasliga highlights I really like the way his team plays. But because the players are all flexible in positions and interchange tactically almost mid-game, you can probably get caught out if you're not careful or well drilled.
Has he?
Bit premature with that aren't we? I mean, Liverpool minus VVD have gone into absolute free fall, we haven't "gained on them" at all as I see it, and looking at our current course, there's every chance we might end the season on a similar points tally to last season with City finishing miles ahead above us.
With City's form, I'd gonna hazard a guess they finish the season on 89 points, with United on 70. There's every possibility we end the season behind Leicester and Chelsea. I fecking hope not, and I hope like hell Ole and the lads turn it around quickly, but let's not be ignorant to that possibility. I had the same argument with @Bastian a few weeks back when I claimed we may be heading into another run of poor form, and he was having none of it.
If we finish 4th on 70 points, we've gained nothing, we've thrown an entire season away; however if we get into form quickly again and show that this spell was just a blip, finishing on 76+ points, absolutely, that's improvement.
But that's all guesswork, let's see where we are at the end of the season, rather than make outlandish claims that we've gotten closer to anybody.
We won't sack a manager until it goes completely tits up.
I know, and I agree with that approach. I was just asking is a manager ever waited for? If he’s wanted he’s asked, not wait for a contract to run out or be sacked
A more ambitious club?
You just said we have one of the most expensive squads in the history of football!! No lack of ambition there.
Ole achieved a team playing greater than the sum of its parts at Molde, but of course to many that doesn't count because it's in Norway!
Again, RB finished third the season before Naglesmann took over, the same position Naglesmann managed. It's his performances in Europe that have probably elevated him a bit further. Let's not forget Hasenhuttl managed to finish second in the first season in Bundesliga!!
I fear that someone like Naglesmann relies on the underdog factor and wouldn't be a great fit for United, maybe when Real come knocking we will really see if that's the case!
I hope this guys in the mix for the United job this off season (I stand by that we won’t make top 4 and Ole therefore should be sacked).
I just said above that financial spend isn't the sole indicator of ambition.
From my perspective, Molde doesn't count. Cardiff does, but he's definitely done a lot better here than he did at Cardiff. Nagelsmann did well with Hoffenheim, and the underdog bit, well I'd say Ole has this talented (but imbalanced) United squad and he frequently sets them up as the underdogs over his tenure when facing any half decent football team. Do you remember how he set us up against Leipzig, the side you say Nagelsmann relies on the underdog factor with?
There is no question that Nagelsmann is a far more promising manager. As with every possible candidate, the United-specific question is can they handle the pressure that comes with the job. So far, no one has been able to do that since SAF. But the absolute top managers would relish it.
I have to say I do like the idea of having Nagelsmann come here because he appears to have that aura of confidence and aggression and drive that I feel Ole is lacking, and whose presence I believe would take this squad to the next level.
The players will play for Ole because Ole is “nice”, but “nice” will only take you so far in this footballing world. “Nice” can also be boring, passive, reactive, draining. “Nice” is living life on someone else’s terms, rather than taking it by the balls, no prisoners taken.
The players will play for Ole because Ole is “nice”, but “nice” will only take you so far in this footballing world. “Nice” can also be boring, passive, reactive, draining. “Nice” is living life on someone else’s terms, rather than taking it by the balls, no prisoners taken.
This is the be all and end all imo, everyone who has taken over since Fergie has looked ill within a few months and I’m not saying that jokingly, you can see the toll it takes on someone, Ole had a phase of it but seems to have got past it. Moyes and mourinho looked a shadow of the person who they were when they took over, now at a different club with less pressure moyes looks healthy again.
that’s my biggest question of nagglesmann, can he handle it. He might wear fancy suits and shout on the touch line but he soon regressed into his shell and shut his mouth on the bench when we tumped them.
it’s something we can’t really measure untill they are here but I don’t hold out much hope for nagglesman being strong enough, no matter his coaching ability. Just a feeling I have.
Did we need to win? I can't remember.
Was it the last game then? Can’t remember.
doubt I’ll beat you in a game of snarkiness anyway; I’lve seen your recent posts. Carry on
I'm being genuine. Did we need a draw in the last game or a victory? I actually can't remember.
Either way, I don't see what the big issue is. All I said is Leipzig knocked us out of the CL. I don't see how that's not true.
In all honesty - the fact that Oles achievements at Molde don't count to you really speaks volumes. Those achievements should not be discounted and should not be belittled in any way, shape or form.
Ole set up his United side to be cautious against RB, not as an underdog. There is a descernable difference. I can freely admit that first season Ole was very much an 'underdog' style manager, however I believe that mentality has changed recently.
I don't doubt Naglesmann is a talented manager, I am sure Real will be calling for him again soon, I just doubt the beliefs of people on here that he could do a better job then our current incumbent, as many of the reasons why he would do better are based purely on conjecture with little evidence to suggest it would be the case.
We just needed a draw. Would have put us level on points with them, but our head to head was better.
I never thought Moyes could look older than what he did when he joined United....I was massively wrong about that...it looked like he'd aged ten years in them 8 months or so!! Looked craggier than a Scottish cliff face when he was sacked!!
Then I apologise. I misread it as you asking a sarcastic obvious question amongst your sarcastic replies.
I don't think I've been sarcastic in this thread but whatever.
All I've said and maintained is Leipzig knocked us out of the CL. Whether you see that as a one off game in the last game or the fact they bettered us over 6 games, which is probably more damning I'd say?
I can’t be arsed to go back through posts I’m not that kind of person, maybe I just read your posts wrong then.
Yeah, this is a difficult job in that respect, and made more difficult by having incompetent people at decision-making level throughout the hierarchy.
With regards to that home game against Leipzig, no manager would have enjoyed that, let alone when they've just gone out and spent a normal's person salary on a shiny new suit
He does seem like a strong character though, and you'd have to be when you start coaching at that level in your late 20s.I somehow knew you'd hold that Molde thing against me. Even though I don't find it that important to the overall discussion, as you imply here, my reasoning is that it's a semi-professional league that is completely irrelevant.
There is a slight difference in Ole's approach to bigger games this season insofar that he's been under pressure one or two times when he decided to play out a stalemate (Chelsea at home, Arsenal at home, City away). Don't blame him for how he set up against City, as they are the better side, quite clearly. Nor do I really blame him for how he set up against Chelsea because of the built of pressure (may have been soon after that very undignified and needless exit from the CL we worked so hard to qualify for last season). All I am saying here is that he hasn't developed a style of play where he goes toe-to-toe, never mind dominates games, against the bigger teams. He's tended to play on the counter or with an extremely slow and impotent attacking game (in spells).
I'm not here arguing for him to be sacked, I see it as a given that he'll get next season even if we end up with no silverware and outside the top 4. What I am saying is that I am still waiting to see if he can transition from being a counter attacking / reactive manager and coaching this side to play attacking football befitting a club that wants to go places. So far, he hasn't. And I don't feel super inspired by his gang of inexperienced coaches in that department either. We can't even sort out set piece defending to an acceptable level. He's learning on the job, but it's two steps forward, one step backwards and quite hard to gauge whether he will actually improve that much. He talks a good game though, apart from the contradictions.
With Nagelsmann, I'd be surprised if there isn't interest in him this summer, but if not, I would hope we're in for him next year if Ole has exhausted the excuses and mitigating circumstances.
It was quite a suitYeah, this is a difficult job in that respect, and made more difficult by having incompetent people at decision-making level throughout the hierarchy.
With regards to that home game against Leipzig, no manager would have enjoyed that, let alone when they've just gone out and spent a normal's person salary on a shiny new suit
I Agree he must have something about him to coach when so young, that game was funny when he went and sat down out of the way though.
Admittedly, haven’t watched nearly enough of his games or followed rb close enough to go one way or another though really.
I can definitely agree with you on several points, you are undoubtedly correct about Ole being here next season whatever happens.Yeah, this is a difficult job in that respect, and made more difficult by having incompetent people at decision-making level throughout the hierarchy.
With regards to that home game against Leipzig, no manager would have enjoyed that, let alone when they've just gone out and spent a normal's person salary on a shiny new suit
I somehow knew you'd hold that Molde thing against me. Even though I don't find it that important to the overall discussion, as you imply here, my reasoning is that it's a semi-professional league that is completely irrelevant.
There is a slight difference in Ole's approach to bigger games this season insofar that he's been under pressure one or two times when he decided to play out a stalemate (Chelsea at home, Arsenal at home, City away). Don't blame him for how he set up against City, as they are the better side, quite clearly. Nor do I really blame him for how he set up against Chelsea because of the built of pressure (may have been soon after that very undignified and needless exit from the CL we worked so hard to qualify for last season). All I am saying here is that he hasn't developed a style of play where he goes toe-to-toe, never mind dominates games, against the bigger teams. He's tended to play on the counter or with an extremely slow and impotent attacking game (in spells).
I'm not here arguing for him to be sacked, I see it as a given that he'll get next season even if we end up with no silverware and outside the top 4. What I am saying is that I am still waiting to see if he can transition from being a counter attacking / reactive manager and coaching this side to play attacking football befitting a club that wants to go places. So far, he hasn't. And I don't feel super inspired by his gang of inexperienced coaches in that department either. We can't even sort out set piece defending to an acceptable level. He's learning on the job, but it's two steps forward, one step backwards and quite hard to gauge whether he will actually improve that much. He talks a good game though, apart from the contradictions.
With Nagelsmann, I'd be surprised if there isn't interest in him this summer, but if not, I would hope we're in for him next year if Ole has exhausted the excuses and mitigating circumstances.
I can't agree on the style of play, I think this season we have seen an evolution of his so called 'reactionary' tactics to something which befits United going forward. We have controlled a lot more games this season in terms of possesion and chances so thats definitely a plus going forward.
Could you see Naglesmann at Real next season out of interest? I know there has been interest from Real previously regarding his services.
Also just to add, the Norweigian league is a professional league with entry to Uefa ratified competitions...just saying!
I don't get the "mini Mourinho" nickname. He's good at instilling his own philosophy, but poor at reacting to his opponents, his gameplan today was wrong and left themselves exposed to the counter from Liverpool's forwards.
He's still very young, but right now he'd be a great fit for Spurs, always attack and try to outscore your opponents.
He's still very young, but right now he'd be a great fit for Spurs, always attack and try to outscore your opponents.
Watching tonight game and defenders mistakes, he would fit right in for United.
His game plan was fine. Leipzig actually looked the better team. Freak individual errors lead to Pools goals whereas Leipzig missed some sitters
That prime opportunity for Julian not taken. Can't blame him for individual errors on both goals conceded and as I said before the best thing about this RB side is their home form and that was taken away from them.
He sets his team up nothing like Mourinho and is a Mourinho comparison really a compliment these days.
Where's his jawline?
People forget the absolute dross Leipzig actually field and still manage to play good football. Sabitzer, Klostermann, Kampl, Adams are all players that wouldn't get into any top team in the world.
Very very good manager but they aren’t a great bunch of players by any stretch, I still can’t believe how we rolled over in Germany.
Player for player they just aren’t very good, collectively capable of punching way above their weight though.
Player for player they just aren’t very good, collectively capable of punching way above their weight though.
To be honest I'd love if we played like RB. Good movement, smart passing.
Sums it up nicely
His team plays exactly how I would expect a 33 year old football manager’s team to play