Film Justice League

[el3mel]

Everyone has an opinion fair enough but this one I find odd. The first two Iron men are good. First Thor is average at best. First captain America is marginally better than the iron men. Avengers is avengers. If you want to count Norton's incredible hulk, well that's poor.

Later in the MCU you have winter soldier, which if memory serves kicks off phase 2, which is a fantastic espionage film and guardians which is a brilliant space opera. Both comfortably better then anything done in phase one IMO. Same with AOU. Ragnorak, Civil war, Black panther and of course infinity war/endgame again are better made films then anything in phase one.

Everything else around those films range from OK at best to very good IMO, for what it's worth.

Again horses for courses, people like what they like, but I very rarely find myself wanting rewatch anything from phase one.

I found the first Captain America movie to be painfully average, to be totally honest.

 

[Tyrion]

Personally think they should quit while theyre behind, for a couple of years, and hard reboot the entire universe.

Think it would have been far better if instead of funding this Snyder cut which probably is gonna be average at best and do nothing for the universe, they should have funded a flashpoint paradox film/TV Series. Thats the out to this mess of a universe IMO.

I don't know why they don't. Iirc they did that to their tv shows and animated films.

I guess my hope for the Snyder cut then will be for Cyborg and Flash to blow me away with their performances and give me the slighest bit of interest in seeing a solo movie from either. From Justice League I thought both portrayals were very weak so even the idea of them having more story this time doesn't sound that interesting. But I'll be watching it for sure so maybe that'll be the best thing that could come from it for me.

I see what you mean about the previous movie being caught between directors. I guess we'll see how much difference having a different director and importantly, the cheat code that is the feedback from the first movie. Knowing what was and wasnt received well means that it would surely be hard to come up with something that ends up having more negative feedback right? And then Synder can claim that was what he was going to do all along with nobody able to dispute it.

Apparently the actor who played Cyborg did not get on at all with the second director, accused him of different things and said he was pulled from upcoming movies because of it.

Don't they keep changing the president of WB/DC movies?

No wonder the tone and direction of their DC movies is all over the place.

I don't even know who is in charge of their films.

 

[Traub]

The original was very poor, so this has to be better. Also, it looks like steppenwolf bowing to darkseid in the trailer... mirroring Loki and Thanos from the MCU

 

[stevoc]

I don't know why they don't. Iirc they did that to their tv shows and animated films.



Apparently the actor who played Cyborg did not get on at all with the second director, accused him of different things and said he was pulled from upcoming movies because of it.



I don't even know who is in charge of their films.

Wasn't sure myself but after a quick Google i see that Kevin Tsujihara was in charge of WB and overseeing DC movies. Then they set up DC Films and they've had 4 people running that since 2016.

 

[SalfordRed18]

I found the first Captain America movie to be painfully average, to be totally honest.

I'm certainly biased towards cap, but this further backs up the point that phase one is probably MCUs most average phase funnily enough.

I don't know why they don't. Iirc they did that to their tv shows and animated films.

It's an excellent film.

On a sidenote for anyone who's not seen them, DCs animated films on a whole are fantastic. Pretty much every film in the shared universe (starting from flashpoint, ending with apokolips war) is at the very least good, and the stuff before this universe is fantastic too.

Batman: Dark Knight returns is what shoulda been batman Vs superman.

 

[el3mel]

I'm certainly biased towards cap, but this further backs up the point that phase one is probably MCUs most average phase funnily enough.

Yes, it was. Iron Man and Avengers were great, but the others were mostly average. It's indeed phase 2 and 3 that are the main meat of MCU.

 

[Ekeke]

Apparently the actor who played Cyborg did not get on at all with the second director, accused him of different things and said he was pulled from upcoming movies because of it.

Yes I know. Problem is that from what I've seen so far, I've seen no reason why I would want to see more of his portrayal of Cyborg. Lets hope Whedon kept in all the worst bits and got rid of all the good bits, so the snyder cut saves Cyborg

 

[Sylar]

I'm certainly biased towards cap, but this further backs up the point that phase one is probably MCUs most average phase funnily enough.


It's an excellent film.

On a sidenote for anyone who's not seen them, DCs animated films on a whole are fantastic. Pretty much every film in the shared universe (starting from flashpoint, ending with apokolips war) is at the very least good, and the stuff before this universe is fantastic too.

Batman: Dark Knight returns is what shoulda been batman Vs superman.

Is the Flashpoint one where we see

Spoiler

Bruce is dead but his father is alive, aquaman and wonder Woman at war, and other things.

Biggest disappointment regarding Flashpoint was that arrow verse had it as a one and done episode when they could have done a four episode crossover with shit loads of things changed, like Oliver dies and his father is alive and becomes green Arrow for a few episodes, and other changed within the arrow verse without including Batman, aquaman ajd the properties they didn't have

Also I think phase 1 was a good intro but I definitely liked the latter phases esp with IW and EG included

I also think captain America has the best run of movies (best trilogy). First one was decent, but winter soldier and then civil war were great.
IM3 was a let down and Thor imo was great from Ragnarok onwards

 

[decorativeed]

Spiderman 2 is arguably still the best comic book film.
Big Raimi fan though so its only natural that I would have great fondness for the film. Love the unique cinematography from Pope too.

I used to think that, then I rewatched it recently. Its really not aged well.

 

[Oldyella]

I used to think that, then I rewatched it recently. Its really not aged well.

Yeah, I thought the same. My biggest gripe on a rewatch though was just how many times Spiderman actually punches Doc Ock! The guy can catch a car, and here is Alfred Molina shrugging off punches from him.

 

[decorativeed]

I wouldn't say everything has been shite to average though. Man of Steel, Wonder Woman 1, Aquaman and Shazam were all very good movies and got really good ratings.

Justice League, BvS, WW 84, Suicide Squad were all poor.

Birds of Prey was not poor but not great either, it was average but quite fun.

Of those, only Wonder Woman and Shazam were well reviewed.

I didn't mind bits of Man of Steel, but it didn't feel like Superman to me. It also had some unforgivably bad bits (Costner's character in particular). Critics were mixed on it, and it's on 56% on rotten tomatoes.

I thought Aquaman was awful, and looking at the reviews, even the most positive ones tell you it's dumb, goofy and has cheesy CGI (how they made a simple scene on a boat look so bad, I'll never know). Again, only 65% on rotten tomatoes. That's only 5% better than WW84 and lower than every single MCU film. I'm not playing sides here, either, I'm a fan of both DC and Marvel characters, but one company really isn't doing justice (pun intended) to their characters.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Of those, only Wonder Woman and Shazam were well reviewed.

I didn't mind bits of Man of Steel, but it didn't feel like Superman to me. It also had some unforgivably bad bits (Costner's character in particular). Critics were mixed on it, and it's on 56% on rotten tomatoes.

I thought Aquaman was awful, and looking at the reviews, even the most positive ones tell you it's dumb, goofy and has cheesy CGI (how they made a simple scene on a boat look so bad, I'll never know). Again, only 65% on rotten tomatoes. That's only 5% better than WW84 and lower than every single MCU film. I'm not playing sides here, either, I'm a fan of both DC and Marvel characters, but one company really isn't doing justice (pun intended) to their characters.

To be fair I wouldn't really pay much attention to RT as WW84 got rated above Man of Steel and regardless of how you feel about MoS it was far better than WW84.

Shazam got rated the same as Captain America 2 and 3 which I think is odd, it was good but nowhere near the 2, and out of all the MCU movies, Black Panther got voted the best which is ludicrous.

MoS and Aquaman both got rated lower than every MCU film, there is not a chance Thor: The Dark World and Incredible Hulk are better than the former 2.

Toy Story 4 got a higher rating than every single MCU movie, which is completely stupid.

 

[padzilla]

As an avowed DC fanboy I can't wait to check this out simply because the Whedon version was so dire, in a way we are getting an Ultimate Edition like we did with Dawn of Justice, which was a huge improvement on the cinematic release. It's become cool to give DC films a kicking and say they fall well short of the golden standard set by Marvel but I think that's being a bit harsh.

 

[Sylar]

As an avowed DC fanboy I can't wait to check this out simply because the Whedon version was so dire, in a way we are getting an Ultimate Edition like we did with Dawn of Justice, which was a huge improvement on the cinematic release. It's become cool to give DC films a kicking and say they fall well short of the golden standard set by Marvel but I think that's being a bit harsh.

I don't think it is
It doesn't even have to be compared to marvel

In terms of movies and action superhero flicks, they just fall short of being entertaining and fun.

Nobody wants to see a broody superman. dorky clark Kent being a badass works for a reason. Even the arrow verse got that right

 

[Ish]

I don't think it is
It doesn't even have to be compared to marvel

In terms of movies and action superhero flicks, they just fall short of being entertaining and fun.

Nobody wants to see a broody superman. dorky clark Kent being a badass works for a reason. Even the arrow verse got that right

Agreed with you there, except the bolded bit. But then again, I think it's preference for me. I prefer the darker stuff over the light/comic stuff.

 

[padzilla]

I don't think it is
It doesn't even have to be compared to marvel

In terms of movies and action superhero flicks, they just fall short of being entertaining and fun.

Nobody wants to see a broody superman. dorky clark Kent being a badass works for a reason. Even the arrow verse got that right

Shazam and Aquaman are two superhero romps that are the very definition of entertaining and fun. Birds of Prey while structurally a mess was also a lot of fun too. Joker was a success by any metric, to say DC films don't work in terms of movies and action superhero flicks is extremely harsh when there have been quite a few examples of audiences and critics digging them - including major Oscar wins, something that Marvel has yet to achieve. The first Wonder Woman film was also critically lauded as well as a box office success. What it boils down to is that not everything Marvel does onscreen is amazing while not all of DC's output is underwhelming.

 

[decorativeed]

To be fair I wouldn't really pay much attention to RT as WW84 got rated above Man of Steel and regardless of how you feel about MoS it was far better than WW84.

Shazam got rated the same as Captain America 2 and 3 which I think is odd, it was good but nowhere near the 2, and out of all the MCU movies, Black Panther got voted the best which is ludicrous.

MoS and Aquaman both got rated lower than every MCU film, there is not a chance Thor: The Dark World and Incredible Hulk are better than the former 2.

Toy Story 4 got a higher rating than every single MCU movie, which is completely stupid.

All RT does is give a percentage based on number of positive reviews vs negative reviews. So they aren't ranking them, just saying most reviews for Black Panther were positive, not that they think it is a better film than Infinity War or Winter Soldier, just that both of those had a few more negative reviews.

I think that Shazam got more good reviews due to it having a good balance of action and comedy along with a nice message about family. People responded positively to it. Whereas Man of Steel was very one-note and lacking in the element of hope that character is supposed to embody.

The reviews for WW84 were probably helped by the fact it was a big budget release in a year where nothing else was getting released. If it came out in 2017, I doubt it'd score so highly.

I genuinely think The Dark World is better than Aquaman, too, although mainly due to the presence of Loki that lifts it a bit.

I also reckon you could place the Green Lantern movie into this DC universe and it wouldn't affect its reputation at this point! Like Aquaman, it's a film that looks like it could have been made about 15 years earlier than it actually was.

 

[decorativeed]

Shazam and Aquaman are two superhero romps that are the very definition of entertaining and fun. Birds of Prey while structurally a mess was also a lot of fun too. Joker was a success by any metric, to say DC films don't work in terms of movies and action superhero flicks is extremely harsh when there have been quite a few examples of audiences and critics digging them - including major Oscar wins, something that Marvel has yet to achieve. The first Wonder Woman film was also critically lauded as well as a box office success. What it boils down to is that not everything Marvel does onscreen is amazing while not all of DC's output is underwhelming.

All for films that aren't part of this DC/Justice League universe. That's what's getting panned, not every project with a DC logo on it.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Shazam and Aquaman are two superhero romps that are the very definition of entertaining and fun. Birds of Prey while structurally a mess was also a lot of fun too. Joker was a success by any metric, to say DC films don't work in terms of movies and action superhero flicks is extremely harsh when there have been quite a few examples of audiences and critics digging them - including major Oscar wins, something that Marvel has yet to achieve. The first Wonder Woman film was also critically lauded as well as a box office success. What it boils down to is that not everything Marvel does onscreen is amazing while not all of DC's output is underwhelming.

Marvel may be doing better for movies, but DC pisses all over Marvel for TV shows and Animated shows. The Arrowverse is far better than Agents of Shield and Agent Carter, the DC Crisis cross-over was also a massive storyline to see on the small screen. I know the MCU are bringing out some exciting TV shows in the next few years but DC has done a great job in that arena so far.

Outside of the Arrowverse, Titans and Doom Patrol were pretty fun, Swamp Thing was quite gritty and a good watch. Gotham started off great and was pretty good all around. Pennyworth is a nice change to the superhero genre, and Lucifer is fantastic.

Smallville is still the biggest and longest-running superhero TV show of all time.

Marvel do have DD, Luke Cage, The Punisher and The Defenders etc and are all very good especially DD which is exceptional, but DC are still leading in the TV show arena in my opinion.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Everyone has an opinion fair enough but this one I find odd. The first two Iron men are good. First Thor is average at best. First captain America is marginally better than the iron men. Avengers is avengers. If you want to count Norton's incredible hulk, well that's poor.

Later in the MCU you have winter soldier, which if memory serves kicks off phase 2, which is a fantastic espionage film and guardians which is a brilliant space opera. Both comfortably better then anything done in phase one IMO. Same with AOU. Ragnorak, Civil war, Black panther and of course infinity war/endgame again are better made films then anything in phase one.

Everything else around those films range from OK at best to very good IMO, for what it's worth.

Again horses for courses, people like what they like, but I very rarely find myself wanting rewatch anything from phase one.

Aside from Spiderman HC and Infinity War, Iron Man 1, Captain America:TFA, Thor, and Avengers Assemble are my favourite MCU movies. Don't get me wrong, I love all the Captain America's, Thor Ragnarok, Antman, and both Spiderman's, but I just prefer Phase 1 to any other phase. Maybe it is just nostalgic reasons, as I got the biggest buzz from Iron Man 1 being announced for release and then seeing The Avengers finally come together.

 

[padzilla]

All for films that aren't part of this DC/Justice League universe. That's what's getting panned, not every project with a DC logo on it.

So you are directly referring solely to the DC films directed by Zach Snyder?

 

[SalfordRed18]

As an avowed DC fanboy I can't wait to check this out simply because the Whedon version was so dire, in a way we are getting an Ultimate Edition like we did with Dawn of Justice, which was a huge improvement on the cinematic release. It's become cool to give DC films a kicking and say they fall well short of the golden standard set by Marvel but I think that's being a bit harsh.

You're putting far too much stock into this Snyder cut.
I don't think it's harsh either, DC films on a whole simply haven't been good. There might have been 1 or 2 that were somewhat entertaining, but in a whole, haven't been good.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Shazam and Aquaman are two superhero romps that are the very definition of entertaining and fun. Birds of Prey while structurally a mess was also a lot of fun too. Joker was a success by any metric, to say DC films don't work in terms of movies and action superhero flicks is extremely harsh when there have been quite a few examples of audiences and critics digging them - including major Oscar wins, something that Marvel has yet to achieve. The first Wonder Woman film was also critically lauded as well as a box office success. What it boils down to is that not everything Marvel does onscreen is amazing while not all of DC's output is underwhelming.

Perhaps. But overall, like it or not, the MCU is amazing whilst the DCEU is underwhelming.

 

[padzilla]

Perhaps. But overall, like it or not, the MCU is amazing whilst the DCEU is underwhelming.

I don't think that's completely the case at all, Marvel have had some average fare to say the least like The Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2, Thor, Thor The Dark World, Guardians of the Galaxy 2 and Captain Marvel. It all boils down to opinions I guess but the tone of some of the MCU films is a bit jarring too especially the Thor films and a lot of it feels like more of the same as if there's no unique vision to each film apart from a few of them.

 

[dinostar77]

Perhaps. But overall, like it or not, the MCU is amazing whilst the DCEU is underwhelming.

DCEU has been a trainwreck on how not to build a universe. Joker is the best movie from DC stable and thats a standalone movie.

 

[decorativeed]

So you are directly referring solely to the DC films directed by Zach Snyder?

Not exclusively. This stuff: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_Extended_Universe

Two decent films out of nine.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

So you are directly referring solely to the DC films directed by Zach Snyder?

You're putting far too much stock into this Snyder cut.
I don't think it's harsh either, DC films on a whole simply haven't been good. There might have been 1 or 2 that were somewhat entertaining, but on a whole, haven't been good.

DCEU has been a trainwreck on how not to build a universe. Joker is the best movie from DC stable and that's a standalone movie.

Are we only talking about the last 10 years? Because DC still created TDK, which is better than any MCU movie in my opinion regardless of whether people see it as a superhero movie.

DC has made some great movies over the years and it is not really fair to only judge DC on the DCEU, and Marvel also had a fair amount of poor movies before Marvel Studios took over.

 

[Hoof the ball]

I don't think it is
It doesn't even have to be compared to marvel

In terms of movies and action superhero flicks, they just fall short of being entertaining and fun.

Nobody wants to see a broody superman. dorky clark Kent being a badass works for a reason. Even the arrow verse got that right

Agreed, in general, although an argument could be made that the peanut-flicking broody Superman scene in the bar from SMIII is iconic for good reasons.

 

[evil_geko]

I don't think it is
It doesn't even have to be compared to marvel

In terms of movies and action superhero flicks, they just fall short of being entertaining and fun.

Nobody wants to see a broody superman. dorky clark Kent being a badass works for a reason. Even the arrow verse got that right

I prefer it much more than 99% of what Marvel puts out. It's all down to preference.

That is why judging movies on Rotten Tomatoes critics score is bollocks, if anything, user ratings are much more representative, and Man of Steel is 75% on RT.

Give me DC stories any time before much more repetitive Marvel formula.

 

[padzilla]

DC's biggest mistake was trying to imitate what Marvel were doing despite having the more iconic characters. Since they've stopped that there has been a marked improvement in quality. Trying to put the Justice League together for that universe's third film didn't really work as it meant too much was shoehorned into Batman v Superman. That said there were themes in that film that were very close to Frank Miller's seminal The Dark Knight Returns and it wasn't a mistake to try and explore more mature concepts than the standard leave your brain at the door blockbuster effort, the mistake came from trying to do too much in the early stages of the series. By the time Avengers came around the audience was already invested in those characters, DC took its audience's interest for granted.

 

[Oldyella]

I don't think it is
It doesn't even have to be compared to marvel

In terms of movies and action superhero flicks, they just fall short of being entertaining and fun.

Nobody wants to see a broody superman. dorky clark Kent being a badass works for a reason. Even the arrow verse got that right

It was fine for MOS, but by the end of that film he was perfectly positioned to be a more positive superman. Instead it felt like the next few set him right back just so they could squeeze in some conflict.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Are we only talking about the last 10 years? Because DC still created TDK, which is better than any MCU movie in my opinion regardless of whether people see it as a superhero movie.

DC has made some great movies over the years and it is not really fair to only judge DC on the DCEU, and Marvel also had a fair amount of poor movies before Marvel Studios took over.

In this regard we're clearly talking about MCU and DCEU though?

 

[Salt Bailly]

If you click on a movie's RT score, you can see the average rating, which is way more indicative of its quality. For example, Captain America: The First Avenger is 24% fresher than Man of Steel, whereas the difference between their ratings is just 0.8:

Black Panther: 96% fresh, 8.3/10
Captain America 1: 80% fresh, 7/10

Shazam: 90% fresh, 7.3/10
Man of Steel: 56% fresh, 6.2/10

Joker: 68% fresh, 7.3/10
TDK: 94% fresh, 8.6/10

All of those ratings look about right to me (aside from Joker, which I loved but understand the critics' issues), whereas freshness constantly seems off on RT.

 

[Tyrion]

Wasn't sure myself but after a quick Google i see that Kevin Tsujihara was in charge of WB and overseeing DC movies. Then they set up DC Films and they've had 4 people running that since 2016.

They seem to change every movie. Hopefully they'll figure things out during the enforced break.

It's an excellent film.

On a sidenote for anyone who's not seen them, DCs animated films on a whole are fantastic. Pretty much every film in the shared universe (starting from flashpoint, ending with apokolips war) is at the very least good, and the stuff before this universe is fantastic too.

Batman: Dark Knight returns is what shoulda been batman Vs superman.

I've heard that about their animated films. Apparently they're way better than many of the live action ones despite a fraction of the budget.

Yes I know. Problem is that from what I've seen so far, I've seen no reason why I would want to see more of his portrayal of Cyborg. Lets hope Whedon kept in all the worst bits and got rid of all the good bits, so the snyder cut saves Cyborg

I agree tbh. He could have been cut out completely and it wouldn't have made a difference so hopefully that changes.

 

[stevoc]

DC's biggest mistake was trying to imitate what Marvel were doing despite having the more iconic characters. Since they've stopped that there has been a marked improvement in quality. Trying to put the Justice League together for that universe's third film didn't really work as it meant too much was shoehorned into Batman v Superman. That said there were themes in that film that were very close to Frank Miller's seminal The Dark Knight Returns and it wasn't a mistake to try and explore more mature concepts than the standard leave your brain at the door blockbuster effort, the mistake came from trying to do too much in the early stages of the series. By the time Avengers came around the audience was already invested in those characters, DC took its audience's interest for granted.

Do you reckon?

I'm not sure theres been 4 DC movies since Justice League, Aquaman and Shazam were more lighthearted and more similar in tone to the Marvel movies. Shazam was good Aquaman was ok. The other two were meh.

Man of Steel and Wonder Woman both came out before Justice League and are arguably the two best films in the series. To be honest i think they are still very hit and miss.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Do you reckon?

I'm not sure theres been 4 DC movies since Justice League, Aquaman and Shazam were more lighthearted and more similar in tone to the Marvel movies. Shazam was good Aquaman was ok. The other two were meh.

Man of Steel and Wonder Woman both came out before Justice League and are arguably the two best films in the series. To be honest i think they are still very hit and miss.

This is a good point. Aquaman, Shazam and wonder woman are always the film's people use as examples of good DCEU films. But they're the film's most close in tone to MCU.

Wonder woman for me is just captain America first avenger with a new skin and shit ending.

 

[padzilla]

Do you reckon?

I'm not sure theres been 4 DC movies since Justice League, Aquaman and Shazam were more lighthearted and more similar in tone to the Marvel movies. Shazam was good Aquaman was ok. The other two were meh.

Man of Steel and Wonder Woman both came out before Justice League and are arguably the two best films in the series. To be honest i think they are still very hit and miss.

I dunno - Joker alone sets the bar really high.

 

[stevoc]

I dunno - Joker alone sets the bar really high.

Joker isn't connected to the other movies though. And other than the face paint its arguable if that character is even the Joker.

 

[Sylar]

It seems people are having different arguments or making different points. Majority of it seems to be MCU vs dccu though some are getting mixed up and counting non dccu movies (like joker and tdk as part of it)

I think standalone movies are much easier to make as there's no big picture to think about. This is where marvel has excelled as they had one guy mostly in charge with an idea and phases mapped out.


Dccu has been, in comparison, a complete failure despite probably having more recognizable characters, a huge gallery of villains (that some see as anti heroes) and so much source material to steal and adapt from.

Dccu rushed and seemingly picked somebody who films and directs not for logical and coherent movies but so that some set pieces would look great in trailers.

I mean filming five hours of story to then have to cut it down to 2 or 3 hours? (And bargaining after the fact?)
Sounds insane
Also having a team up movie with out introducing some of the lesser known characters, like aqua man and cyborg, was insane.

The whole thrill of team up movies is knowing a story behind them so when they team up you understand conflicts and motives and such.

Flashpoint could fix this (and introduce the idea of multi verse hence explaining away the random joker movie and Batman movie we are getting) . Or they need to take a break, let Snyder do this JL and then move away from it and redo it in about 5 years after extensive planning (but we know that won't happen esp with the suicide Squad movie coming)

 

[Sylar]

Agreed with you there, except the bolded bit. But then again, I think it's preference for me. I prefer the darker stuff over the light/comic stuff.

I actually think I prefer DC Comics characters over marvel and that might be due to the Batman villains gallery and some of the crossovers.
But the movies is a whole different ball game and the way they built to the infinity stones saga was immense.

In terms of cinema, the only dccu moment that got people crazy when I went was wonder woman's intro in bvs.
But marvel I can think of Avengers lineup in the first, Thor and his 'bring me thanos', moment in IW, Spidey dusting away in IW, captain America and Thor's hammer + his Avengers assemble line and iron man saying 'and I am iron man' before he snapped.
All built up brilliantly which dccu doesn't understand (yet hopefully)

Shazam and Aquaman are two superhero romps that are the very definition of entertaining and fun. Birds of Prey while structurally a mess was also a lot of fun too. Joker was a success by any metric, to say DC films don't work in terms of movies and action superhero flicks is extremely harsh when there have been quite a few examples of audiences and critics digging them - including major Oscar wins, something that Marvel has yet to achieve. The first Wonder Woman film was also critically lauded as well as a box office success. What it boils down to is that not everything Marvel does onscreen is amazing while not all of DC's output is underwhelming.

Shazam wasn't underwhelming but it was a nice surprise. Expectations weren't high on that. Wonder Woman was the only movie that wasn't underwhelming. MoS was mostly good but remember, this was done before the dccu was introduced and planned (IIRC)
Every other movie from dccu has been underwhelming
(Dccu not DC property)

I prefer it much more than 99% of what Marvel puts out. It's all down to preference.

That is why judging movies on Rotten Tomatoes critics score is bollocks, if anything, user ratings are much more representative, and Man of Steel is 75% on RT.

Give me DC stories any time before much more repetitive Marvel formula.

I never go on reviews before making a judgment. I tend to enjoy most of the movies but I can also see when its a disappointment or would be bad for non comic book geeks like me. Superman being broody vs Batman being broody was a huge mistake. It should have been the light/day of superman v dark/night (heh) of Batman IMO (but that movie had bigger issues)

It was fine for MOS, but by the end of that film he was perfectly positioned to be a more positive superman. Instead it felt like the next few set him right back just so they could squeeze in some conflict.

Maybe but again, this is lack of planning leading to underwhelming universe building