Totally agree. They need their own Feige, someone mapping out the next several years of their plans.
Film Justice League
- Thread starter okLaptop1
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DC is going down, and has already gone down, the road of making all the films mostly standalone or at least have a looser continuity since Justice League. They are clearly going down the road of opening up the multiverse after the Crisis on Infinite Earths which means everything from the Christopher Reeve/ Brandon Routh Superman films to the more recent Justice League characters are all interlinked in some way without it being the cinematic equivalent of an episodic arc like Marvel have been doing. There is merit in both approaches, it's quite interesting to see fandom divided like Marvel or DC is the football team they support and are immune from criticism while saying the other side sucks. Marvel have created some cracking films and some less than great ones, the same goes for DC. I think all comic book fans should really be grateful we are living in age where we are getting such output. It's cyclical as well, up until X-Men in 2000, Marvel films were straight to video guff while DC were knocking it out of the park with the Reeve Superman films followed on by Keaton's Batman. In fact Nolan's Batman first two Batman films took that to another level, DC messed up though when it saw what Marvel was doing with one interconnected universe and decided to copy that but without investing in the characters and the result was less than impressive. There is no question they have taken a step back from that in recent years to have a wider range of output that isn't held together by rigid continuity and are arguably more experimental than Marvel. Would Marvel be able to create something like Joker?
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Joker and Batman aren't part of the DCEU though. I understand your take on making the movies more standalone but I don't think that can work without some coordination as it is by definition a cinematic universe and there have been so many reboots / different versions of the same characters (and now movies themselves) it just gets confusing to the cinema goer.
In terms of experimentation Wandavision is part of the MCU and is pretty progressive. It can be argued whether it worked or not judging by the thread but it definitely tried something very different.
Also we cant say movies are going standalone when the next Suicide Squad is gonna have the same Harley Quinn from the previous SS movie, and the one from the Birds of Prey, which has a link to the Joker, who will be in this Justice League.
Its basically a mess.
I dont mind the whole method of linking everything, past, present and future through the use of multiverses and different Earths (as Arrowverse did a fantastic job of doing that with their crisis crossover and mentioning all properties. Heck they did half the job for DC by mentioning some of the movies are on different earths and even having the DCCU Flash appear).
And I dont get this whole DC vs Marvel thing thats being brought up. I love both and want both to be roaring successes. Just because one is clearly better, doesnt mean I favour one over another. All it means is that I have watched movies from the two universes, and overall see one is planned really really well and has 10 years+ of planning, whilst the other is a clusterfck of massive proportions that has given us more underwhelming movies and confusion than the one or two good/ great movies.
Its basically a mess.
I dont mind the whole method of linking everything, past, present and future through the use of multiverses and different Earths (as Arrowverse did a fantastic job of doing that with their crisis crossover and mentioning all properties. Heck they did half the job for DC by mentioning some of the movies are on different earths and even having the DCCU Flash appear).
And I dont get this whole DC vs Marvel thing thats being brought up. I love both and want both to be roaring successes. Just because one is clearly better, doesnt mean I favour one over another. All it means is that I have watched movies from the two universes, and overall see one is planned really really well and has 10 years+ of planning, whilst the other is a clusterfck of massive proportions that has given us more underwhelming movies and confusion than the one or two good/ great movies.
To be fair that's simply aping the direction of modern comics - it seems every couple of years there is a reboot or different version of the same characters rightly or wrongly. Heck Marvel/Sony are giving us a rebooted Spider-Man in high school every five to six years at this stage, the rule there seems to be to hit reset every time Peter Parker starts to think about shaving. To go back to the original point, I would Man of Steel was a strong start for the DCEU, arguably as good as anything Marvel had done at that stage, but it was Dawn of Justice, Suicide Squad and Justice League that really let the side down, Marvel were going from strength to strength then and really hitting their stride with a run that included The Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant Man and Civil War.
Completely this.
That's simply not true. If Disney and Sony didn't hash out a deal for Spiderman in the MCU we would have got an amazing Spiderman 3 with Andrew Garfield.
And they'll all appear in the next doctor strange anyway.
Goes without saying, no? Someone would have to be off their rocker to think DCCU have been anywhere near the MCU.
They should just have rebooted by now (probably after BVS) and started over, with a clear plan and vision. Now there's also another Batman.
Think some have trouble accepting/admitting it when these conversations come about. Not aimed at anyone in here personally, but TDK and joker always seem to be brought up despite having nothing to do with the conversation.
Yeah, I don't get it myself. I'm a big DC "fan" by quite a margin and I'm gutted/pissed that they screwed up so badly but i mean, common sense must prevail. MCU is light years ahead of the DCCU. It's not even up for debate IMO. I hope DC pull their finger out.....eventually. But yeah, I won't hold my breath (it is breath and not breathe, yeah?).
Given Joker is in its own universe, separate from the DCEU, a parallel could be made with Logan. Obviously separate from the MCU, seemingly distancing itself from much of the Fox X-Men universe it originated from, R rated, adult oriented, and actually better received critically. You might be forgiven for thinking it paved the way for Joker two years later.
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There's no question DC's attempt to play Marvel at their own game by making the DCEU movies culminate in the Justice League movie, like the Avengers was the end point of Marvel's phase one, backfired on them, it simply fell short for numerous reasons and that's why they have redirected the approach in the last three or so years. That said I think there is still merit in a lot of DC's output. It's not without irony that a thread about the Justice League should descend into Marvel great/ DC shite rinse/repeat type conversations.
That's a fair analogy but the caveat I would suggest is that it was very much produced under the Fox banner with Lauren Shuller Donner etc having the creative reigns it didn't have anything at all to do with the MCU - didn't even feature characters who had appeared in any of the films Feige produced. DC Films were the direct producers of Joker. The MCU has had a very strict type of storytelling adhering to the episodic formula which admittedly has largely been brilliant and groundbreaking.
Yeah, i edited my post just before I saw your reply to reflect a lot of that.
Perhaps with Feige's announcement that Deadpool will be the first R rated film they produce that's still within the MCU, there will be more experimentation with adult oriented films. It's a shame the Daredevil series (along with the other Netflix/Marvel stuff) seems to have been pretty much removed from cannon, as that show at its best was as good as Joker and every bit as dark.
Has it? It seems like there's just a lot of people like myself disappointed that they haven't been able to enjoy many decent DC films, given the characters they have to work with and all the money they've spent in the last decade producing mainly bad films.
The problem for me seems to be mainly in the writing, which is odd given there must be hundreds of good stories to adapt from the 80 years worth of source material.
Daredevil was exceptionally good. It really will be a shame if we get some lame reboot or recasting for the big screen.
I never had much interest in the character before and even less so for Kingpin, but they did such a good job with that show, I'd hate for it to have just ended like that.
I think a lot of this gets overthought - the basic problem was that they had Zack Snyder set the thing up, who is not very good. He makes average to poor films so it shouldn't be a surprise when the resulting universe is at that level.
What I don't get is why they just scrapped after MoS and started again when it became obvious this wouldn't work
You will be surprised with how many defend the dccu to the point saying it's fresher and takes more chances than mcu (which might be true but trying to be darker / broodier isn't really taking a chance)
I agree with the latter, thankfully they got most of the properties back or added like X-Men, FF, Deadpool and given Deadpool success we will see that incorporated (by taking full on shots and continuing the r rated aspect)
The DC films and all seems to change every so often. It's like they want a dceu but then want stand alone movies (which is fine) but they gotta stick to that. Course correction has got to be difficult given contracts and what they've produced already
The clearest problem DC had was they wanted what Marvel had but didn't want to put the effort in to get it and the end result showed. They have been entire trilogies of films were less happened than in Batman v Superman, they were trying to shoehorn everything in so it could set up Justice League. That would be like going straight to Avengers after the Ed Norton Incredible Hulk, madness!
Yeah, it’s been shit and where it’s ended up is a direct result from abysmal (non existent!) planning from the get go it seems.
Oh gosh, I'm just thinking marvel doing that movie after iron man, but in the hulk movie introducing Thor and captain America too as a file that loki has, having given them logos too
I still hope something can be salvaged even if it's standalone movies here and there or just trilogies for the different actors
Agreed. They ruined BvS and Justice league because they wanted to build up the team/ next villain in those movies. They did that half baked and much of it in the theatrical release didn’t make sense.
They needed to organically do it. A shame. I do think though, now they have the world, with this new filled out Snyder release, they should pursue. It disappointed me they decided to reboot Batman (and superman?). It’s all become a bit of a mess now.
The first few didn't actually do too badly money-wise, so I'd guess it was a bit of that mixed with an "it's just a little dirty, it's still good, it's still good!" attitude. Which leads to... putting out a TV show in 4:3, apparentlyWhat I don't get is why they just scrapped after MoS and started again when it became obvious this wouldn't work
Changing the subject a little but did Hans Zimmer have a little inspiration for his acclaimed wonder woman score?
Nice find. Both his movies right?
Both Snyder movies yeah. Did Snyder just tell Zimmer give me what Bates did for 300?
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Suspect the story behind the re-cut will be more interesting than the re-cut itself but still, the story behind it is interesting. It's also hard to not have sympathy for Snyder generally given everything that happened around the making of the film.
Interesting
Also WB doing a superman reboot with jj Abrams producing
Yeah...
Also WB doing a superman reboot with jj Abrams producing
Yeah...
Superman reboot? Really? They haven't even made a sequel for Man of Steel that was pretty decent and they are rebooting again....with JJ freaking Abrams.
James Corden.
Feels like they're going to soft reboot the entire universe while keeping the previous movies intact or something.
Maybe they're done with trying to make a connected story like Marvel and will focus on standalones from now on ? DC usually did well with standalone movies before they decided to kick start their universe in response to Marvel success.
The rumored length of Justice League seems to be around 4 hours. I honestly feel like this is gonna be too long ? I can't imagine myself setting there watching a movie 4 hours straight while keeping the same level of interest and concentration.
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4 hours?! Jesus.
I don't think they needed a lot of build up but they definitely rushed things to catch up with Marvel.
Starting the universe with a Superman movie was a neat idea. Next up we should have got a Batman standalone movie that builds up his character for his conflict with Superman.
Follow this up with BvS movie but completely cut Doomsday from the story and make it just about their conflict. I felt Doomsday was shoehorned in this and it had no purpose being there, beside it's ridiculous how an iconic villain in the history of comics got defeated this "easily". In the comic he destroyed a group of B list heroes completely then went on fighting Superman in a pretty long fight. Making him as a cameo in last 30 minutes or so then dying this easily was a ridiculous decision, he deserved an entire movie dictated to fighting him imo.
BvS should have been about Batman and Superman only, it was fine introducing Lex Luthor and Wonder Woman but that should have been about it.
Next up the Wonder Woman movie then a Justice League one about fighting Doomsday, kill Superman like comics, then resurrect him in a JL sequel then work on from there.
I feel this would have been more organized and at the same time, fast enough to catch with Marvel if they liked.
Cavill will still be Superman but that is for the DCEU. It is only rumours but this will be a standalone movie not set in the DCEU, like The Joker and The Batman. DC want to have the DCEU and standalone movies. Marvel are kind of doing it with Venom and Morbius but the studio for them two is Sony and not Marvel Studios.
Square jaw. Fits the Bill. Check.
Thanks 68