Not as long as our sagas
Kai Havertz
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
- Status
Probably beIs it confirm Havertz joining Chelsea?
Seriously though, just how is Lampard going to field them all together and give them enough games to be happy?
Too many players joining.
Oh well, I'm not complaining if that would disrupt their squad morale as more and more egos making problems, then that's great.
Kante
Havertz Mount
Ziyech Werner Pulisic
No chance. Kovacic is a must for starters, and Werner isn’t really a lone striker.
Yeah Sancho is a terrific young player, arguably the best in the world, but it definitely wouldn't be a surprise to see a bit of an adaptation period in the premier league for him. You always see it with players coming from the Bundesliga. They might show their quality in bursts but it tends to take a bit until they reach their best level. Bundesliga, Dortmund especially is a league perfectly set up to get the best out of young exciting attackers.
Nah would be Havertz as a 2nd striker right behind Werner, and then Kovacic next to Kante in midfield.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Agreed, but at the same time it probably means we ain't competing for the title next year.
Not sure if this is the case in a midfield 3 to be honest. Kovacic is 100% the first name on the teamsheet in a midfield pairing, but as a more advanced high-pressing 8 I don't think his end product is sufficient (also you limit his best attribute, which is his ability to drive with the ball from deep in midfield)
Let's hope Chelsea bottles it and plays in the Europa League next season, that should stop their Havertz budget in its tracks.
Sancho is too similar to Rashford and Greenwood, all 3 are pacey, skillful types. Havertz given that he's left footed would give United a different dimension on the right hand side as he'd offer passing, creativity, and fluidity. He reminds me of a left footed Kaka. Much cheaper than Sancho too if reported figures are true. Martial, Rashford, and Havertz would have been an incredible combination and would have probably been one of the best attacks in Europe.
But very happy it looks like we may sign him before United or Bayern. I'm sure they were carefully monitoring the situation. If this signing goes through I don't think Willian will return and Pedro is already signed to Roma. This might also mean the end for Barkley.
But very happy it looks like we may sign him before United or Bayern. I'm sure they were carefully monitoring the situation. If this signing goes through I don't think Willian will return and Pedro is already signed to Roma. This might also mean the end for Barkley.
Havertz isn’t a winger. End of.
Probably at the same time we say Ziyech is better than Maguire if comparing players in different positions is our new MO.
Do you think Mount and Havertz can work as a central midfield pairing? I don't think either of them are natural CM's (I know Mount runs an awful lot) Just seems a lot of strain on Kante defensively. Kovacic's end product will be compensated by the likes of Ziyech, Havertz etc. who have impressive G/A figures.
The thing I'm thinking about most importantly is Kovacic's ball retention. His pass accuracy is about 90% per game. Ziyech's is mid 70's - he's very similar to Fernandes in that sense. You need a carrier in a side with a bunch of creative forces.
Don't think so, by most estimates our transfer budget coming into this summer was about €400m (normally we spend about €120m per year on players, we have 2 years of budget due to the ban hence €240) plus €160 from selling Hazard and Morata. Add to that now €20m in bonuses from the Hazard sale, €15m for Pasalic, and €10m for declining Boga's buyback, and that €45m more or less offsets the difference between being in the CL and the EL (maximum total earnings difference between winners is about €60m).
We've spent ~€110m on Ziyech and Werner so far; CL football vs. EL has little bearing on a potential Havertz deal (especially if recent word from Ornstein is true and he's willing to move to Chelsea without CL qualification).
You do probably have a big budget but you also have to factor in the effect Covid might have had on your finances.
Sure he's not. I was thinking more like an inside playmaker similar to Ziyech for Ajax or Ozil when he was good. Game is so fluid these days that players don't particularly have specific positions and instead occupy spaces. I think I can see Lampard going for a Ziyech in the midfield right of a 3 / Havertz out wide on the right combination where the two continually switch roles, one going inside the other outside. Havertz is also very two-footed even if he prefers his left.
It's all speculative but I do think so - Havertz is better than Barkley in every phase of the game pretty much and the Mount-Barkley-Kante triumvirate worked well vs. City, for instance. I would worry about the physical toll this'd take on Kante, but saving him for big matches and using Gilmour against lower-tier sides would help a lot.
Kovacic's ball retention is tremendous as is his dribbling - the thing that makes Havertz special though is that he's comparable in these stats whilst also providing huge production in the final third in terms of goals and assists (~85% pass success despite playing as a false 9, attacking midfielder, and central midfielder this year). A pure carrier like Kovacic becomes less essential with Havertz in the side. Where I'd worry more is in the defensive numbers - I think Mount would have to step up that side of his game, but to be fair to him he's risen to every challenge (and his pressing numbers are truly extraordinary).
I also wouldn't compare Ziyech with Kovacic tbh - the better comparison is to Willian. I don't mind Ziyech dropping deeper to try long diagonals or penetrating passes - he's been the creative hub for Ajax for 3 years now and I think surrounded by better teammates his numbers may improve.
If Lampard can truly motivate William, Tammy and Giroud to really play their hearts out so they Chelsea can afford to replace them all in the summer they can do it. It all comes down to how much those players want to get away, then you can ask, is it because of bad managing? Even if it is, Lampard will have tricked them into performing just to get rid, but if they don't perform because he is a bad manager and they don't listen to him, they're all happy and will play next season. It's hard to get a grasp on, but either way they'll bottle it.
I've always wanted to see a left footed attacker for our right side, I too think Havertz has potential to play on our right / playmaker role, similar to how Ozil operated in his early years.
This is where gate receipts being a lower portion of our budget becomes a bit of a blessing in disguise - we're far more reliant on commercial revenue and sales (already guaranteed) in comparison. Perhaps €120m is optimistic and we'll have allocated ~75-80% of that instead; my point is that the difference between CL and EL is unlikely to dramatically impact our ability to sign Havertz.
We have no place in our XI for Havertz nor is Sancho anything like Greenwood nor will the two fees be that far apart
Havertz isn't a wide player at all. He'd be competing with Bruno essentially, which I don't think he'd fare better (at least not yet). Sancho suits us far more as he's a natural wide right sided player, and offers a shit ton of creativity with goals at the same time. Suits the front 3 of Martial and Rashford more, as he's more of a creator with those 2 being more goalscorers. Havertz also probably more of a scorer rather than a creator, which suits Chelsea more as they'll have Werner as a scorer, but Ziyech and Pulisic as creators.
Lots of rumours in WHU circles that Chelsea are going to get Rice with Barkley and Batshuayi being apart of the deal. Make of that what you will.
Havertz was horrible in the fixtures I witnessed in the UCL with him on the right hand side. He should be used behind the striker which seems to be his most accomplished position. You should replace Havertz name with Ziyech who would be Chelsea's best wide player if he settles well.
A history of the Chelsea fans point of view over these last few months
Stage 1- Chelsea have just as much chance of signing Sancho as anyone as he used to support us as a child and all his mates play here
Then they started getting nervy and it went to...
Stage 2- No one is making any big signings this summer after Covid, it's utterly irresponsible
Then Chelsea signed Werner and started getting linked with Havertz...
Stage 3- Sancho will struggle with the price tag, Havertz is the safer bet
Can't wait to see what Stage 4 is
(Not all Chelsea fans btw)
Stage 1- Chelsea have just as much chance of signing Sancho as anyone as he used to support us as a child and all his mates play here
Then they started getting nervy and it went to...
Stage 2- No one is making any big signings this summer after Covid, it's utterly irresponsible
Then Chelsea signed Werner and started getting linked with Havertz...
Stage 3- Sancho will struggle with the price tag, Havertz is the safer bet
Can't wait to see what Stage 4 is
(Not all Chelsea fans btw)
Stage 4 is that Ziyech is better than Sancho who is overpriced because he's English!!!
Stage 5 is that Man United should have signed Willian on a free who's better than Sancho obviously
Stage 6 is when we start creating fake websites to link you to Victor Moses
Genuinely baffled if Chelsea go for Havertz - with their defence? Can anyone tell me what is going on? They know they have let in the most goals in the whole top ten, right? Soon Azpi is 31. Rüdiger, AC and Zouma are all, at best, mid-table players, and are doing their best to prove it, while Kepa both looks and plays like a 13-year old. I would love to get a peek at their transfer plans this summer, 'cause I can't make sense out of the rumours.
Fabrizio has posted this transfer to his Instagram and if you look at his page he only posts what’s pretty much done and confirmed. So Kai to Chelsea it is and we should all go back to the Sancho thread.
Who knows what their budget is but they're being linked with a number of GK's (Oblak, Pope, Henderson, the lad at Ajax), a couple of LB's (the other lad at Ajax, Chilwell) and a couple of CB's (Rice, Ake)
You wouldn't expect they can afford to do it all in one window even if they haven't spent the Hazard money/couldn't sign anyone last summer but who knows
I think it's more a case of opportunism - Havertz is a potentially generational player we have a free run at and he turned 21 a month ago. This kind of opportunity is extraordinarily rare (not saying he'll hit these heights, but I'm reminded of City going in for KdB at Wolfsburg).
Are there more efficient ways we could use the money to improve our team for next year? Possibly (though I am very down on the current CB market). Are there more efficient ways we could improve the team for the next 4-5 years? I'm very doubtful.
Unfortunately we don’t employ that system that City or Liverpool use. For example at City they use:
Sterling - Aguero - Mahrez
De Bruyne - B. Silva
Gundogan
For their possession based system and their lineup it works. B. Silva was initially bought in to play on the right for them but more recently he has been playing the position you mentioned.
For us we will be exploited defensively by even Norwich right now if we employed that system. That’s why Bruno and Havertz (as much as I would love to see him here) playing together won’t quite work for us. We play with wingers and Ole will stick to that. The other option is we switch to a diamond which I would love to see but again Ole won’t employ that system.
Rasford - Sancho
Havertz
Bruno - Pogba
Matic
Havertz
Bruno - Pogba
Matic
The CFs up front can be so interchangeable for example Rasford switches to the left and Sancho to the right and Havertz becomes a false nine which is his ideal position.
I agree, there defence is shoddy. They are also being linked with Oblak but I'll be amazed if that happens. My money is on them getting someone like a Foster or equivalent on a free to put some pressure on Kepa and hope Kepa turns things around.
At CB it is anyones guess, the CB market is pretty poor and the good ones are either insanely priced or impossible. My money is on Rice and the try to convert him.
I hope we don’t just give Chelsea a free run at this lad and settle for Grealish. We should always be trying to improve the first 11 instead of padding out the squad with cheaper options. Havertz is potentially world class and Grealish isn’t .
Last edited:
Aww, that's great. Good feeling to know you've written something so dumb a person couldn't help himself laughing at it.This actually made me laugh out loud
You just described our defense without the age factoring in...Lol
Failing to take advantage of games we have dominated have cost us 15 points atleast. It's a bigger problem than defense, for as much as they aren't the best defenders ever we don't actually give away that many chances, the form of keeper and our wastefulness put a ridiculous amount of pressure on them knowing they could be flawless for 89 minutes and the 1 they ain't costs us points.
Furthermore when a player like Havertz comes along you just go for it, CM was a more urgent need at the point we signed Hazard but that one turned out ok.
Spot on. Time and time again this season we have dominated matches against truly terrible sides only to not convert any chances we create. Then these teams get more and more confidence as the match goes on, our defenders panic, and we end up losing.
Significantly improving the quality in our attack should alleviate some of that pressure on our defenders. We can 100% use a couple of defensive signings, but I find it impossible to believe that adding Ziyech, Werner, and maybe Havertz won't help us improve our chance conversion massively.
Alli's level has fallen these past two seasons but I guess my comment was more about how both players are better closer to goal and score quite a few goals when playing further up front. It'll be interesting to see Havertz in England, as imo due to his height he's not the most blessed in terms of mobility and acceleration (similar to Alli) but technically looks very good.He really isn't similar to KDB at all yet. He's not nearly that polished at this point. He's much better than Dele, though. Better passer, better dribbler.
Not gonna lie, I'll be shocked if we actually pull this off. I was 100% convinced that some other club would come in for him since we had other priorities (CB, LB, keeper). I even bet my Caf account that we wouldn't sign him. Getting a bit nervous now!
If Havertz really is pushing for a move this summer, I'd be surprised if he doesn't sign for Chelsea. There aren't realistically many clubs that can afford him and it looks like no other club can realistically do so this summer, so it effectively gives Chelsea a free rein. Unless, City suddenly turn to Havertz but that doesn't look likely at this stage.
I still can't get over the Arsenal game at home, I know they had a man less but 19-2 shots and it ending 2-2 was just ridiculous.
Hopefully we put that firmly right at Wembley.
- Status