Congratulations for making the wrong point then.
Kalidou Koulibaly | Chelsea
- Thread starter RDCR07
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) discuss United's progression to the FA Cup Semi Final after a crazy win over Fulham at Old Trafford. They also talk about the latest on the sale of the club and whether they would prefer to be owned by Jim Ratcliffe or Sheikh Jassim. But before all that they are joined by special guest Natalie to discuss Man Utd Women - who are currently riding high at the top of the WSL. Can they actually win the league?
I think this was also the time when Van Dijk was bossing it big time, and everyone looked for the next physical big-man to be "their Van Dijk" - that's how I remember many conversations of him.
Gives me Maguire vibes with how clumsy he is.
Could be, maybe even before that since it was in a huge German Bayern Munich forum(part) and VVD not THAT much in the limelight - although recognised as a huge impact player of course. But I forgot and am too lazy to look it up since when VVD joined Liverpool, doesn't feel that long ago to me but could be ages as well. (isn't actually interesting at all).
Not sure how he would fare in a middle of a back 3/5. So basically a Thiago replacement. The positional mistakes I see (although I don't really watch that many Chelsea games anymore since Tuchel left) speak against it I'd say. Couch being defensively a bit soft doesn't help him.
Chelsea miss Rüdiger big time.
Imagine thinking this opinion was anything other than stark raving bankers.
What kind of logic is this?
Players ageing badly is not a revelation, is it? Plenty of players get priced out of moves to bigger clubs during their primes, which is also not revelatory.
Always thought he was either overrated or had a very quick peak point
pricks always causing the rest of economic hardships
bloody bankers and their bonuses
You never must buy physical players in serie a. Because all the physical players in serie a are dominant (Lukaku, Tomori, Koulibaly, Vlahovic, Osimhen ecc.), but in premier league the physique is not enough.
In serie a you must buy tecnichal players (Salah, or now Kvaratskhelia).
In serie a you must buy tecnichal players (Salah, or now Kvaratskhelia).
Does that also apply to Harry Kane? He is nearing 30 and isnt at an elite club either. Napoli could be seen as an Italian Spurs?
Is he feck
And that's coming from someone who doesn't rate Maguire, and never has.
Imagine if we'd got this version of him and paired him with Maguire. 
The only reason he was, was because of the insane price tag Napoli wanted. If it was 50m he’d have joined United or city years ago. Glad we didn’t, he’s gone backwards very quickly
I asked earlier but was he always this heavy?
I think he’d be better shedding some bulk.
Its not a poor argument at all, its a massively time-saving argument.
Its logic that saves loads of time because even though its not perfect its correct 99.99% of the time.
See, that's where people go wrong. Of course its not infallible logic, nobody is saying it is, there will always be exceptions that prove the rule.
However, across a huge Dataset, it proves to be true time and time again and I bet people can barely name a single truly world-class player who made their first move to an established "elite" club in the modern era after they hit 28
I'll give you a similar example...I collect and analyse Data for horse racing and am a profitable punter. My Data shows that horses who meet certain speed trends (based on overall times and sectionals times) at each CD when winning follow-up that win an astonishingly low percentage of the time, despite usually being one of the favourites to win their next race...
Now, I could spend hours watching replays, scrutinising the Data, analysing other form factors etc....in an effort to find the one in a hundred who dispprove the trend or I can save bagfuls of time and eliminate a massive chunk of the market by going with the overwhelming trends. Its just not worth investing huge effort to find the one winner outside the usual trends, especially because you'd statistically almost certainly back more losers that way.
So thats my way of thinking. You guys can all argue about one or two players who joined an elite club at 28/29+ for the first time and were amazing but I'll just stick to my nearly always right "if they were THAT good, someone would have signed them" argument because it's right nearly all of the time
Consider, how many have been flops (like Koulibaly) and is it worth trying to find the exception, especially since their resale value plummets if they fall short?
Clubs have been interested in him for a long time, but Napoli priced him out of a transfer for years around £100mill.
Laurent Blanc moved to Barcelona from Auxerre in 96 when he'd have been 31 ish. Zola to Chelsea about 30 (although I guess you could perhaps argue Chelsea weren't a massive club back then). Sheringham to United at 31. Cannavaro would have been 29 or so when he moved to Inter (although I suppose you could make a case for Parma being a big club back then?). Giroud went to Chelsea at 32.
I guess you can dispute whether they were all world class but they were all incredibly successful at the top level at least after making their biggest moves quite late in their careers. Perhaps it was more common in the past though that they would go under the radar more than they do now with videos and scouts everywhere from a very young age.
It is still not relevant here. It is common knowledge that Koulibaly was approached by Elite level clubs almost every single summer in the past 6 years... Napoli priced him out of a move and he wasn't always that keen on moving abroad... When he was still a top defender he faced the great Juventus (the one that used to reach CL finals), PSG, Liverpool, and other top teams over the years and did very well most of the time.
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I think he'll find his form again, the quality is there.
bloody bankers and their bonuses
Can't see it if I'm honest.
I've actually got hope for Sterling and Cucurella but Kouli looks a lost cause.
Nah. It’s actually quite dumb
It is a poor argument. It's not a time-saving one, more like a lazy one that you expect someone like Paul Merson to come up with.
Elite player playing for Napoli for most of his career won't make him just a good player, likewise John Stones or Fabian Delph playing for City won't make them elite.
Interesting, why are Chelsea fans so pessimistic on him?
The decline is too sudden in my opinion to permanent, I feel he could still return to form.
He plays like he's a teenager learning his trade and the game now seems to quick for him. Infact ironically he's currently what I imagine Rudiger will look like once he loses his athleticism and recovery pace.
I fear this is a case of Napoli squeezing every last drop out of him with us now getting what little is left but I hope I'm wrong.
I haven't seen much of him at Napoli. I'm hoping someone else will be able to answer if he always had a little Maguire in him waiting to burst out?
He just looks so clumsy and slow that I'm not convinced at all that he can still bounce back. His tackling looks almost comical because he's often so late to the scene. At current rate he's on course to get around 15-20 yellow cards over the season, assuming he even continues playing and the new boy Badiashile won't drop him to the bench at some point.
The only way I could see him still return to form is if the current problems he's having are caused by something like a weight issue or similar that he can easily start working on to fix.
Got to say, I was expecting a much better player of him. Really thought he'd be a great signing for at least a couple of years but damn was I wrong.
As predicted.
He never stood out against decent opposition for me. Really struggling in the EPL.
Yeah fair enough. I was dead wrong about him. I really thought his experience was going to be crucial to replace Rudiger's experience, and I thought the quality would be at least somewhat comparable.
Not sure I'd agree. The Italian media rated him as the best centre-half in Italy pretty regularly from 2015-2020. And even against the best wide forwards, Salah for example only has 2 goals in 13 games against him. In 2018/19 when Liverpool won the CL, I remember Napoli dominating Liverpool's attack so much that they didn't register a single shot on target - for the first time in the Champions League in 12 years. And similarly Mbappe has 0 in 2 and was well handled in both games by Koulibaly - " Koulibaly was often tasked with facing Mbappe one-on-one and predominantly came out on top, despite the Frenchman's trickery and blistering pace" and "While Mertens starred up front, the performance of Kalidou Koulibaly highlighted why many consider the central defender one of the best in his position. The Senegal international struck to his defensive responsibilities well against some tough opposition in the shape of Neymar and Mbappe, and proved he has quality on the ball with a number of ventures forward."
The Italian media rate Lukaku so they get can get in the bin.
Salah might have two goals but have a look at Koulibaly against him.
There will likely be multiple other clips. He’s just not good enough for the EPL.
We wanted to pair him with Maguire didnt we?
To be honest Liverpool looked toothless also this season for 175 minutes against a Napoli side without Koulibaly so it might be not because of him.
When both played in Serie A, not a single person considered Rudiger to be his equal… Then the German moved to England and got the hype that comes with being a decent PL player...
This is so ridiculous. When Koulibaly was dominating Salah in Serie A games, a center back pairing of Morgan & Robert Hut won the PL. But sure he wasn't good enough.
Not the same Liverpool though...
I don’t see what that has to do what I said though. Koulibaly at Chelsea is what I’m comparing to Rudiger, not the player both of them were 6-7 years ago. That’s totally irrelevant.
Ironically current Koulibaly is looking the player I imagine Rudiger turning into when he loses his pace and athleticism.
Looks like those are clips compiled from a number of games between the two. If that’s the worst that can be pulled out from over 1000 minutes of them going toe-to-toe then it doesn’t say a lot. I mean here’s another compilation from just one of those games:
It’s clear he’s had loads of dominating performances against elite forwards over the years. He’s bossed PSG’s Mbappe and Neymar which is superior to anything he would have been up against in the PL during that timeframe. The problem is Chelsea signed him after his peak, which is fairly typical of their transfer strategy over the last couple of decades.
I would say Koulibaly's peak was during 2015-2019. During that time he was a real top defender and was rated as one of the best stoppers in the world. He was rated by Italian media as the best center-back during 2015-2020. I can say that his Napoli days were a lot faster both in terms of top speed and acceleration, which was one of the important parts of his game. His marvelous and outstanding top speed made him fit well against top wide forwards like Salah and Mbappe, which a lot of fellas had already mentioned. He was also known for his durability during his peak, he rarely missed the games during 2015-2019.
During his peak, his impact with Napoli was simply almost exceptional. As you can simply notice from Napoli's performances in Calcio. In 2015-2019, Napoli's ranking in Calcio was never below third place, and they got second place three times. You could say that Napoli's attacking unit was excellent and it was a major part of Napoli's performances during that time. However, Koulibaly's impact during that time couldn't be overlooked for sure.
Napoli's points in Serie A during 2015-2019
Post 2019-present, Koulibaly's situation has become different from his peak period. He has become a bit injury prone as I posted during 3-4 months about his injury records. After 2019, he never competed in league games for over 30 matches( 2019/2020, 2020/2021, 2021/2022). He could also be noticed his declining in his physical attributes like top speed, acceleration, or even agility. As you could say that Napoli 2019/2020 faced a lot of problems from many parts. But you couldn't deny that he had a lot of poor performances in that season too. His decline affected Napoli directly, especially in terms of points and performance( 2019/2020 and 2020/2021). He started to play well again in the 2021/2022 season and received the player of the month in September 2021.
You must accept that he is a very aggressive defender who could be clumsy and make reckless tackles a lot of times. His biggest strengths were athleticism, physicality, and tackle. He is also a person who performs best as a pure stopper. One of Napoli's legendary defenders( Ruud Krol) once told that he couldn't be a leader of the defensive line. He also criticized Koulibaly a lot of times.
He was already lost some of his athleticism before he joined Chelsea and athleticism was the main part of his games during his peak. For his clumsiness, it is a natural part of his games, and probably a lot of stoppers. He usually makes a lot of clumsy tackles and challenges. Yes, he needs to adapt in English football but I am also not sure whether he will have a successful career at Chelsea or not. As he already lost his best abilities atm. If Koulibaly had wanted to move to English football, he should have moved during 2015-2019 when his athletic abilities were still top-notch. In fact, he wanted to stay at Napoli until the end of his career.
Individual
During his peak, his impact with Napoli was simply almost exceptional. As you can simply notice from Napoli's performances in Calcio. In 2015-2019, Napoli's ranking in Calcio was never below third place, and they got second place three times. You could say that Napoli's attacking unit was excellent and it was a major part of Napoli's performances during that time. However, Koulibaly's impact during that time couldn't be overlooked for sure.
Napoli's points in Serie A during 2015-2019
| 2nd place | Napoli(2015/2016) | 38 | 25 | 7 | 6 | 80 | 32 | +48 | 82 |
|---|
| 3rd place | Napoli( 2016/2017) | 38 | 26 | 8 | 4 | 94 | 39 | +55 | 86 |
|---|
| 2nd place | Napoli(2017/2018) | 38 | 28 | 7 | 3 | 77 | 29 | +48 | 91 |
|---|
| 2nd place | Napoli( 2018/2019) | 38 | 24 | 7 | 7 | 74 | 36 | +38 | 79 |
|---|
Post 2019-present, Koulibaly's situation has become different from his peak period. He has become a bit injury prone as I posted during 3-4 months about his injury records. After 2019, he never competed in league games for over 30 matches( 2019/2020, 2020/2021, 2021/2022). He could also be noticed his declining in his physical attributes like top speed, acceleration, or even agility. As you could say that Napoli 2019/2020 faced a lot of problems from many parts. But you couldn't deny that he had a lot of poor performances in that season too. His decline affected Napoli directly, especially in terms of points and performance( 2019/2020 and 2020/2021). He started to play well again in the 2021/2022 season and received the player of the month in September 2021.
You must accept that he is a very aggressive defender who could be clumsy and make reckless tackles a lot of times. His biggest strengths were athleticism, physicality, and tackle. He is also a person who performs best as a pure stopper. One of Napoli's legendary defenders( Ruud Krol) once told that he couldn't be a leader of the defensive line. He also criticized Koulibaly a lot of times.
He was already lost some of his athleticism before he joined Chelsea and athleticism was the main part of his games during his peak. For his clumsiness, it is a natural part of his games, and probably a lot of stoppers. He usually makes a lot of clumsy tackles and challenges. Yes, he needs to adapt in English football but I am also not sure whether he will have a successful career at Chelsea or not. As he already lost his best abilities atm. If Koulibaly had wanted to move to English football, he should have moved during 2015-2019 when his athletic abilities were still top-notch. In fact, he wanted to stay at Napoli until the end of his career.
Individual
- CAF Team of the Year: 2016 (as a substitute),[120] 2018,[121] 2019[122]
- Serie A Team of the Year: 2015–16,[123] 2016–17,[124] 2017–18,[125] 2018–19[126]
- Golden Lion (Senegal Player of the Year): 2017,[127] 2018[128]
- Serie A Best Defender: 2018–19[129]
- Serie A Player of the Month: September 2021[130]
- Africa Cup of Nations Team of the Tournament: 2019[131]
- IFFHS CAF Men Team of The Year: 2020[132]
- IFFHS CAF Men's Team of the Decade: 2011–2020[133]
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