Keir Starmer Labour Leader

sun_tzu

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So you only want the "right kind of Jew" in the party?

Sounds familiar.
I don't want anybody regardless of religion who is part of LAW or promotes them to be honest

Activities[edit]
In January 2018 LAW mounted a demonstration outside the Labour Party head office in protest against what they felt were politically motivated allegations of antisemitism.[1] They also welcomed the appointment of Christine Shawcroft as chair of the Labour Party's Disputes Sub-Committee.[13]

In February 2018 the group backed Jennie Formby in her successful bid to become General Secretary of the Labour Party.[14]

In March 2018 they leafletted and mounted a counter demonstration against a demonstration outside Parliament organized by the Board of Deputies of British Jews and the Jewish Leadership Council against alleged antisemitism in the Labour Party.[15][16][17]

In April 2018 they mounted a further demonstration, against the expulsion of Marc Wadsworth for his actions at the press conference for the report of the Chakrabarti Inquiry in antisemitism and racism in the Labour Party.[18] They also mounted a crowdfunding campaign, raising £16,000 for his ultimately unsuccessful defence, calling his expulsion outrageous.[19] Also in April, the group sent an open letter, with more than 2,500 signatures, to Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, which blamed some allegations on a combination of supporters of Israel and Zionism with Labour right-wingers and a hostile media.[20]

In September 2018 they demonstrated against acceptance by the National Executive Committee of the full list of examples associated with the Working Definition of Antisemitism of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance.[21] The organization organized a fringe meeting at the September 2018 Labour Party conference, where references were made to McCarthyism and Orwell's book ‘‘Nineteen Eighty-Four’’ in relation to the situation within the party.[22] At another fringe meeting, Greenstein told the audience that the motive behind the campaign against antisemitism was to attack the left and replace Corbyn as leader.[23] The group handed out Palestinian flags to delegates for waving in the conference hall.[24] In September and October 2018, the group called on Labour Party members not to cooperate with exercises by the Labour Party and the Jewish Labour Movement to obtain examples of antisemitic behaviour by members.[25]

In January 2019 the group condemned the deselection by the National Executive Committee of Rebecca Gorden-Nesbitt as parliamentary candidate for South Thanet over tweets relating to accusations of antisemitism.[26]

In February 2019 Jewish campaigners persuaded a church to decline to host the group's annual conference.[27]

In March 2019 the group called on party members to support Chris Williamson MP, suspended for saying that the party had been "too apologetic" in the face of criticism over the issue, by lobbying the party General Secretary, signing a petition or proposing a motion.[28] The group also held a rally the day before the Labour Party disciplinary hearing of Jackie Walker in support of her and Chris Williamson, at which she was expelled. Speakers included Walker, Ken Livingstone and Graham Bash, a leading member of Jewish Voice for Labour and editor of Labour Briefing.[29] The location of the meeting had to be changed after the Board of Deputies of British Jews persuaded the original venue to cancel the booking.[30] One of their members, John Davies, was alleged to be one of those seeking to deselect Louise Ellman MP, vice chair of Labour Friends of Israel.[31]

In May 2019 the group co-organised with the local Momentum branch a training session on antisemitism for Reading Labour Party members, addressed by the secretary of Jewish Voice for Labour. Local party officers said that the meeting had no official status.[32]

In mid–July 2021, Labour Against the Witchhunt along with three other alleged far-left factions Resist, the Labour in Exile Network and Socialist Appeal were banned by Labour's National Executive Committee on the grounds that "these organisations are not compatible with Labour's rules or our aims and values." These factions were sympathetic to former leader Jeremy Corbyn and had been accused of obstructing efforts to combat antisemitism within Labour. The Committee also ruled that belonging to these factions is grounds for expulsion from Labour.[33][34] In response, several left-leaning groups picketed the Labour Party's headquarters in Victoria, London to protest the NEC's decision.[33]

Critical reactions[edit]
LAW has been described as controversial by the Daily Telegraph and as far left by The Times,[35][36] while The Jewish Chronicle dismissed it as a fringe organisation.[37]

Andrew Percy MP, in a speech in the House of Commons, called the group's claim that the series of allegations of antisemitism was a witch hunt a "new smear" and asked MPs to "call out" the group,[38] while Wes Streeting MP called the group intimidating, when they demonstrated outside the disciplinary hearing for Marc Wadsworth.[39] The Jewish Labour Movement has said that the organisation, along with Jewish Voice for Labour, "ridicule and minimise the real lived experiences of victims of antisemitism”,[40] and Stephane Savary, a representative of Left Wing Zionists for Labour, has urged the party to expel the organization.[41] In February 2019, the Jewish Labour Movement called on the Labour Representation Committee not to work with the organisation or with JVL.[42]
 

sun_tzu

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So because they have been described as controversial by the Telegraph etc. you want don't this Jewish group to have a voice. OK.

My previous comment stands.
so do you also support chris williamson?
Do you think there shouldn't be an independent review of anti-Semitic allegations in the labour party
do you think the IHRC definition of antisemitism shouldn't be used
do you think the antisemitism allegations against labour were just a smear on corbyn

or put simply how antisemitic are you?

also just to be clear LAW is not a "jewish group" and it is this members signature on an open letter from law (in which he supports williamson, is against inependent review of allegations, thinks the IHRC definition shouldn't be used and that the antisemitism allegations against labour were a Corbyn smear that has got him potentially kicked out the party - pending review of his response - in which I note he did not retract cy of those points)
 
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Superden

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Anyone against people who object to the British board of deputies should not be welcome in the Labour Party. The deputies leadership are right wing bigots.
 

Fluctuation0161

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so do you also support chris williamson?
Do you think there shouldn't be an independent review of anti-Semitic allegations in the labour party
do you think the IHRC definition of antisemitism shouldn't be used
do you think the antisemitism allegations against labour were just a smear on corbyn

or put simply how antisemitic are you?

also just to be clear LAW is not a "jewish group" and it is this members signature on an open letter from law (in which he supports williamson, is against inependent review of allegations, thinks the IHRC definition shouldn't be used and that the antisemitism allegations against labour were a Corbyn smear that has got him potentially kicked out the party - pending review of his response - in which I note he did not retract cy of those points)
The member is a political officer of Jewish Voice for Labour. So again, my initial point stands.

Maybe the question is, how anti semitic are you? Or do you only use it for political means when Guido tells you to.
 

TwoSheds

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so do you also support chris williamson?
Do you think there shouldn't be an independent review of anti-Semitic allegations in the labour party
do you think the IHRC definition of antisemitism shouldn't be used
do you think the antisemitism allegations against labour were just a smear on corbyn

or put simply how antisemitic are you?

also just to be clear LAW is not a "jewish group" and it is this members signature on an open letter from law (in which he supports williamson, is against inependent review of allegations, thinks the IHRC definition shouldn't be used and that the antisemitism allegations against labour were a Corbyn smear that has got him potentially kicked out the party - pending review of his response - in which I note he did not retract cy of those points)
There are loads of Jews who support these "far left" groups and don't accept that the IHRC definition of anti-Semitism is the only/correct one. But they're not the "right type of Jew" I suppose to support your point. Which would be quite anti-Semitic but there you go.
 

sun_tzu

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weren't the left adamant after the whole change uk thing that the morally and democratically decent thing was to stand down and trigger an election rather than change parties... I assume they will be here any moment now demanding the same?

Or perhaps they are too busy celebrating the first rumblings of the (much delayed) youthquake
 

Fingeredmouse

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weren't the left adamant after the whole change uk thing that the morally and democratically decent thing was to stand down and trigger an election rather than change parties... I assume they will be here any moment now demanding the same?

Or perhaps they are too busy celebrating the first rumblings of the (much delayed) youthquake
Jezbollah.
 

Sweet Square

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However, he said it had taught him a personal lesson that voters needed to be convinced that he was listening. “The big takeaways for me were that patience is wearing thin for the prime minister. If there’s one thing people don’t like, it’s when someone like the prime minister says one thing and then does another and they’ve just seen too much of that. “For Labour, what I was struck by was that people wanted to talk and wanted to engage. They were open to us. Now I’m not suggesting for a minute that people who voted Tory at the last election are already beginning to switch, but they’re open to that discussion … I think the constructive criticism is, can you show that you’ve changed? And probably the biggest takeaway, are you listening to me? Conference, obviously, will be our opportunity to set out in primary colours what post-pandemic Britain needs to look like.” Starmer signalled he may be preparing to make a more explicit departure from the 10 pledges he signed up to during his leadership campaign, which contained many policies backed by Jeremy Corbyn and earned him significant support from the left of the party. Pledges included abolishing tuition fees, increasing tax on the richest and backing “common ownership” of key utilities. Moving away from them will mean Starmer faces anger within his own ranks.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...int-a-picture-of-my-vision-in-primary-colours


 

Sweet Square

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What does it mean to set out something in primary colours?
Answer -

Labour pledged today to overhaul Universal Credit with a new name to end the “stigma” around the benefit. Welfare chief Jonathan Reynolds told the Mirror he will rebrand and “replace” the benefit if Labour wins power - two years after ex-leader Jeremy Corbyn said he would "scrap" it. Eight years after UC launched, Mr Reynolds said the “objective” of combining six benefits into one was “laudable” and the current IT system would stay - but the “whole culture needs to change”.

He also told the Mirror while he has “thought about a few” ideas for new names, the party has not settled on one yet. Mr Reynolds urged Tory rebels to help stop next month’s £20-a-week cut to Universal Credit for 6million people, which will hurl 500,000 into poverty. But quizzed by the Mirror, he stopped short of pledging a Labour government would reverse the cut - which ends an 18-month-long Covid uplift. Asked if he would restore the Universal Credit standard allowance back to what it is now - or indeed higher, due to inflation - Mr Reynolds replied: “Our opposition at the minute has to be around the cut that is scheduled for October because that’s the here and now, that’s the influence Parliament can have.
 

Maticmaker

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Good news, I wish this new party well.
Just tried their website and was greeted by "This annoys us too, our website needs cookies in order to function correctly and the law requires us to display this pop up"..... what kind of breakthrough is this? A bit disappointing, I thought with their title they were going to go on the offensive!
 

Sweet Square

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There's something very grim and depressing about Starmer labour. Everything from policy to marketing looks as if it's from a Shane Medows film from the mid 2000's.

 

nickm

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Wow. What a real, viable alternative to the Tories.
Labour's not in any position to make pledges of that kind at the moment, and nor should they be until much, much closer to an election. That should be obvious.

Admittedly talking about playing with the name is asinine.
 

Fluctuation0161

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Labour's not in any position to make pledges of that kind at the moment, and nor should they be until much, much closer to an election. That should be obvious.

Admittedly talking about playing with the name is asinine.
Without a vision, or even the start of a vision, there is no building towards any pledges or solid policy.

Starmer is in a position to break 10 pledges though. Funny that...

He still lies less than Johnson. But that only gives us the choice between sh*t on a stick or just sh*t.
 

nickm

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Without a vision, or even the start of a vision, there is no building towards any pledges or solid policy.

Starmer is in a position to break 10 pledges though. Funny that...

He still lies less than Johnson. But that only gives us the choice between sh*t on a stick or just sh*t.
I agree labour needs a vision and tbh there's a lot of low hanging fruit around. You don't need to promise an upending of society but you could say an awful lot about yourself with something understandable like housing for example... Thatcher did.
 

Raven

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I agree labour needs a vision and tbh there's a lot of low hanging fruit around. You don't need to promise an upending of society but you could say an awful lot about yourself with something understandable like housing for example... Thatcher did.
If only Starmer could be more like Thatcher.
 

nickm

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If only Starmer could be more like Thatcher.
Sigh. Yes, if only Starmer could learn some lessons about clarity of messaging from one of the best at it. Not the same as agreeing with or adopting her politics at all.

But I concede asking you lot to learn anything from anyone who's not been dead for 80 years is an ask.
 
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NotThatSoph

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Sigh. Yes, if only Starmer could learn some lessons about clarity of messaging from one of the best at it. Not the same as agreeing with or adopting her politics at all.

But I concede asking you lot to learn anything from anyone who's not been dead for 80 years is an ask.
Hitler's been dead for almost 80, you could ask them to learn from him. He was pretty clear.
 

nickm

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Hitler's been dead for almost 80, you could ask them to learn from him. He was pretty clear.
Think you just Godwinned yourself out of the thread there. But sure, let's compare how Thatcher used council house sales to tell a powerful story about aspiration to the working class, and by extension illustrated her political philosophy, and Hitler's burning of the Reichstag, and see how far that gets you.

This idea that understanding something is the same as agreeing with it, is childish.
 
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711

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Think you just Godwinned yourself out of the thread there. But sure, let's compare how Thatcher used council house sales to tell a powerful story about aspiration to the working class, and by extension illustrated her political philosophy, and Hitler's burning of the Reichstag.

This idea that understanding something is the same as agreeing with it, is childish.
:)

A clear case of e-suicide.
 

Fluctuation0161

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I agree labour needs a vision and tbh there's a lot of low hanging fruit around. You don't need to promise an upending of society but you could say an awful lot about yourself with something understandable like housing for example... Thatcher did.
Social housing is what is needed. Not more unaffordable "affordable" private housing. Look at Germany as an example of a high proportion of renters.

Problem is the Tories are in bed with the big developers so they don't care about the housing shortage and its impact on the millions who are struggling. Only on profit for their developer donors. Likely similar to Thatcher.
 

Fluctuation0161

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Thatcher used council house sales to tell a powerful story about aspiration to the working class,
Looking at the house price increases since then. How much money do you think Thatcher has lost the country in housing assets with this irresponsible policy?
 

NotThatSoph

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Think you just Godwinned yourself out of the thread there. But sure, let's compare how Thatcher used council house sales to tell a powerful story about aspiration to the working class, and by extension illustrated her political philosophy, and Hitler's burning of the Reichstag, and see how far that gets you.

This idea that understanding something is the same as agreeing with it, is childish.
Why would you compare? I thought we were talking about clearness without adopting the views.