Keir Starmer Labour Leader
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Blimey. It's a sensible reaction though, a bit of social distancing from the tories at this time.
It did make me laugh that a lot of people who supported Starmer did so on the basis that Labour needed someone who was unblemished by their past, unlike Corbyn supposedly was; and hence could not be so easily demonised.
Starmer - a former DPP, was supposed to represent a break with Corbyn and his questionable history. Already on social media I’m seeing an increasing amount of responses to tweets concerning him (mostly from bots I’d guess) accusing him of allowing Savile to go unprosecuted, working to get Worboys released, in addition to other more coherent criticisms of his record that could harm him from voters on either side of the political spectrum. Expect all this to come to fore once politics returns to relative normality.
Starmer - a former DPP, was supposed to represent a break with Corbyn and his questionable history. Already on social media I’m seeing an increasing amount of responses to tweets concerning him (mostly from bots I’d guess) accusing him of allowing Savile to go unprosecuted, working to get Worboys released, in addition to other more coherent criticisms of his record that could harm him from voters on either side of the political spectrum. Expect all this to come to fore once politics returns to relative normality.
I don't think that stuff will bother older voters in the same way as the Corbyn stuff did.
You don’t think once Cummings put his data to use and runs targeted Facebook ads linking Starmer to Savile’s evasion of justice or the Worboys case that it won’t harm him as much as stuff like ‘Corbyn loves the IRA’ did? Starmer is getting depicted as a protector of notorious paedophiles and rapists. Truth is irrelevant. It could seriously harm his prospects.
He’s light years ahead of Corbyn.
It doesn’t take much to be fair.
I mean that's true but look at Twitter and/or Dobba and you'd think he was the Antichrist who betrayed the saviour.
Well christ was a jew... just sayin
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What are you saying, out of interest?
Good to see Sir Keir making good use out of those light years.
When the media breathed a collective sigh of relief and said ‘at last, we have an opposition back’ this is what they really meant. An opposition is back that will barely cause an ounce of anxiety for the establishment.
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It’s actually embarrassing. Silent for weeks and this is what they come up with.
Spot on. There's a cost to getting on the front page of the telegraph and we are seeing it. But boy does he look good in a suit!
It will be interesting to hear from people on the left who voted for him in leadership race about this.
Yep, same old bullshit weak response.
It's funny, I've banged on about Labour being a real problem and how we should all hold them to account on here for ages now. Yet was constantly shouted down.
Well here we are yet again, with a weak opposition, one which is going to go nowhere. Shock, horror.
No offence but it's because you rarely tell us what you think labour should actual do.
The difficulty the party has is that if they put forward a good response(Rent cancelation as they did under Corbyn)then they don't get the headline in the daily telegraph(In fact they get attacked by the press) and the only way to get good press courage is through shit policy.
The party has to chose between good effective policy or positive media courage, it can't have both.
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Quick, someone bring up Richard Burgon so the rest of this thread get to avoid having to discuss this spineless bollocks from Sir Keir.
It’s going to be a long 4 years.
I actually have in the past, but people like you have always likes to attack me because you thought I was solely anti-corbyn.
That makes me not bothered about constantly answering your loaded questions, whilst despairing at how pathetic the infighting and finger blaming goes.
The "left" is never going to pull itself together to fight this, we have disappeared up our own arses. But instead of facing that, you'll continue to dig at someone who is a member of the Labour party and joined up to try to make a difference, then realised very quickly how much of a mistake it was. Because it's full of people like you who want to attack people on the same side, and either side within, rather than actually practising what they preach and suggest real solutions rather than shouting down what everyone else thinks.
I didn't vote Starmer, just like you didn't. Difference is, I'm not being a bitch about it because my choice didn't win so I don't have to hide behind my attacks under the guise of "well Corbyn had it worse!"
If the labour supporters on here are even close to representative of the party as a whole then labour are absolutely doomed
I ''attacked''(Mate it's a football forum, you might want to relax a bit)you because you have a tendency to post stuff like this -
This is just meaningless, it's a void of pointless anger full of sound and fury, signifying nothing(
). Directed at imagery left that doesn't exist. If the left was full of people like myself then I'm not sure why we still have a ton of right wing mp's(I would have purge all of them), why the party put forward a policy of introducing thousands of new police officers(I'm not their best fan)or why someone like Starmer overwhelming won the leadership race.You've basically confused a dozen lefties on a football forum for the entire British left(In my experience Labour meetings are far duller than this thread)which in fairness happens a lot on here and online in general(Twitter isn't real life should be left slogan imo).
I didn't say this but ok. So about those polices ideas for the party ?
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You say it's "a football forum" and I should relax, yet in another thread you call all police scum...I ''attacked''(Mate it's a football forum, you might want to relax a bit)you because you have a tendency to post stuff like this -
This is just meaningless, it's a void of pointless anger full of sound and fury, signifying nothing(
You've basically confused a dozen lefties on a football forum for the entire British left(In my experience Labour meetings are far duller than this thread)which in fairness happens a lot on here and online in general(Twitter isn't real life should be left slogan imo).
I didn't say this but ok. So about those polices ideas for the party ?
Whilst this leadership election was going on, you made it quite clear who you backed. And now they didn't get in, you are acting exactly as expected.
Oh and the pathetic "well how are you going to sort it then?" would make me chuckle, it weren't drenched in your desire to now see Labour fail again just so you can be proved right. It's actually a shame, as the likes of you take delight in finally being proved right when Starmer loses the next election.
And for all your bluster about me having an idea on how to win an election, ignoring the fact I have no experience in that so it's laughable anyway, let's turn it back around and hear your big ideas? Or are you merely here to bitch and whine about Corbyn and RLB failing and doing the classic Labour thing of blaming everyone else?
Because for me, I'd start with real introspection on the failings, how the feck we failed to actually reach people and where the policies went wrong. I don't believe it was all Brexit and Corbyn, though the likes of you refuse to see he played a massive part in it, I think we mainly failed to connect. And why? Because the same old Labour shit, false promises, vote bribing. You sit on your moral high ground judging everyone else, because its easy for you to do that, but down in the gutter people just don't trust our bullshit vague promises up against their bullshit vague promises. We got battered and we deserved it for thinking a few claps at a fecking festival translated into votes.
Rather ironically, that was the Blair tactic too...
Absolutely fecked.
I call them the scum of society, there's a big difference fyi.
Oh so there's nothing ? No policies whatever so ever. Nice one!
You complain about people taking the ''moral high ground'' yet you're post above is just one giant apolitical moralist brown note, mixed in with years of twitter headlines that have melted you're brain and then to finally top it off you end it with a cop out answer(Also didn't you say that you've given answers before, so whats change ?).
Maybe it's just the socialist in me but I don't think you need ''political experience''(Which really just means working as an MP staffer or a lobbyist)in order to answer such questions are where should the party go next. It's why one of my ''big ideas'' is to democratise the party, it's to give labour members like yourself a say in how the party and potentially the country is run, rather than members feeling alienated and helpless. For all the shit that gets thrown at them, labour members have a far better understanding of politics and the answers we need to the current crisis then any political wonk/think tank.
And then to answer the question I've been trying to get you to answer - Starmer needs to adopted better policy over better media coverage, it's of course a huge risk but well you can't afford to piss off the only social base labour has- The under 40's(Who are overwhelmingly renters). I dare say all of this is far more productive than moaning about a failure to connect or gutter people.
Also just quickly I'm guessing you missed my posts criticising RLB and her campaign(I actually said she was awful throughout the leadership race), plus that I would have voted for Keir if he was genuinely going to run on the 2019 manifesto ?
This one here is actually a reply to you! -
I would suggest rather the ''debating'' the random lefty/labour person you've built up in you're head, you instead engage with the actual discussion at hand and offer something.
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There ya go lads you got your Tory light centrist you all wanted.
Ok a serious note if you are advocating rent be cancelled, where does that leave the landlords and the mortgage payments? I know @Sweet Square probably views landlords alongside the police as scum, but I don’t think you can just cancel rent and expect landlords to foot the cost?
My stepdad rents his home out (he owned it before he met my mum), and he’s currently furloughed so he wouldn’t be able to absorb an additional mortgage cost aswell? I think there’s a view that all landlords are somehow stinking rich and own a multitude of properties but this isn’t the case.
My stepdad rents his home out (he owned it before he met my mum), and he’s currently furloughed so he wouldn’t be able to absorb an additional mortgage cost aswell? I think there’s a view that all landlords are somehow stinking rich and own a multitude of properties but this isn’t the case.
why do your mum and stepdad need two homes?
Mortgage holiday? I'm guessing he's got more than 2 years left on his mortgage, so he'd still be much better off than someone having to pay back arrears over 2 years. And that's not to mention he'll still be owning a house.
if someone invests in one of the many businesses that are going to fail as a result of the pandemic we might feel sorry for them depending on what they have left over, or not feel sorry for them if they have enough left over, people who rent out additional homes are definitely in the latter category
this especially applies airbnb hosts
capitalism's made our brains so smooth it's hard to imagine a basic necessity like housing being half way affordable, if anything the projected fall in house prices is about 50% too low if we're going to make it reasonable
this especially applies airbnb hosts
capitalism's made our brains so smooth it's hard to imagine a basic necessity like housing being half way affordable, if anything the projected fall in house prices is about 50% too low if we're going to make it reasonable
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Why do we need anything that isn’t water or food?
He decided not to sell when he moved in with my mum as he’d have got less than he paid for it, and they see it as a longer term investment. But you still didn’t answer what is meant to happen to the mortgage payments if the people actually living in the house are allowed to have a number of months rent cancelled? Yes he could apply for a mortgage holiday but I think that is only a maximum of three months. Don’t get me wrong he’s already spoken to the tenants and said they’ll work through it, as I imagine many landlords have, I just disagree with this notion that landlords have an infinite money supply and can absorb increasing costs because people living in their property don’t have to pay to live there.
@Grinner I’d be interested to hear what you think as someone who rents out property.
it's not that all landlords have infinite money, it's that they own extremely overpriced basic necessities. if your stepdad owned a part of the food or water supply and was set to lose it because the people who need food and water have less money his loss would be fine even with him, but instead we treat housing as long term investments which leads to it being overpriced and people like your stepdad losing out because they compete with people who can afford to lose infinite money to hoard resources
what needs to happen is the government investing so much money in housing that it's not a guaranteed return for anyone other than builders and other tradespeople we need to build and maintain our homes, it's a house that people need to for a reasonable quality of life and should be treated as such, it shouldn't be treated as a permanent growth investment
and if this means landlords losing everything then alapartridgeshurg.gif
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Yeah, I really don’t get what’s supposedly so bad about Starmer’s proposal. It seems like a sensible way to help renters without screwing over the property owners during this difficult time.
I’m all for the government cracking down on second home ownership long term to bring down housing prices, but that needs to be done incredibly carefully, not just as a sudden emergency measure in the middle of an economic crisis or the economy is going to be even more fecked.
Predictable reply that didn’t answer the question but thanks
Think the best solution I've read is just to temporarily increase housing benefit to cover the difference. Keeps money flowing in the economy, keeps demand up.
the economy is going to do worse long term as a result of people having to spend more and more of their falling wages to finance boomers shitty investments
i'm okay with your stepdad losing his second home dude, which part of that is difficult to understand? he has two fecking houses, so cry me a river
He isn’t going to lose it .
I was asking how you’re expecting landlords to foot the cost if rents are cancelled.
i don't care about landlords, they already have more than they need and are overdue significant loses, especially as i said earlier, airbnb landlords who are the worst
the housing market needs to half in price in most of the country and more in other places