Keir Starmer Labour Leader

nickm

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Smores said:
We don't know what he was instructed to do or threatened with by outside parties/interest groups.

Even from his position of strength he's too scared to make bold positions. He has a very set political position (to have no real position) and you won't see him budge from it. Corbyn had the same fault, fixated on pre-agreed messaging they falter at every major hurdle that demands a more nuanced approach.
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He's not a great tactician and he's not particularly nimble. This is isn't the first example.

On the other hand, there's not a position on either side of the debate that had or could have any impact on actual events and it won't matter a jot in electoral terms.

I would imagine with a lot of this, he is trying to act as if he was in government, so he probably did not want to get too far outside the US position. That's a challenge for many in the party to come to terms with I think.
 
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nickm

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Fingeredmouse said:
Callous.
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This is what Liz Kendall said in response to the announcement as far as I can tell she's not really saying the government isn't being callous enough. She's talking about the need for reform, unless there is a different quote that I've missed.

"Shadow work and pensions secretary Liz Kendall said: “This poor excuse of a proposal does nothing to fundamentally change the state of our health service or our Jobcentres after a decade of failure from the Tories. A record 7.8 million people are still stuck on NHS waiting lists and 2.6 million people are trapped out of work due to long term sickness, with the increase since the pandemic alone costing the taxpayer an extra £15.7 billion a year.

“A healthy nation is critical to a healthy economy. But look beneath the bonnet of today’s announcement and you will see more of the same: a failing approach that doesn’t even scratch the surface of the problem.”

Source.
 

Sweet Square

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Drainy said:
If anything I'm supporting Jess Phillips' right to take a shit with her clothes on
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Very normal thing to say!

nickm said:
She's talking about the need for reform, unless there is a different quote that I've missed.
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2015
Labour leadership contender Liz Kendall has defended Harman after she said she would not oppose some government welfare cuts, including the cap on household benefit income.


But Kendall said it was essential that the party showed that it had changed if it was to regain the trust of voters. “People said to us: ‘We don’t trust you on the money, we don’t trust you on welfare reform,’” she said. “If we are going to oppose things we have to put something else in its place because if we carry on making the same arguments we have done over the last five years we will get the same result.
“We have to put forward a different, credible alternative and ******* was absolutely right to say that.”
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The Corinthian said:
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:lol:
 

Maticmaker

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decorativeed said:
My reading of it is that he's shown poor leadership and a needless authoritative streak.
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I would reverse both the above. I think Starmer has shown good leadership on this very difficult matter and was not just speaking for effect, he knew nothing he (or any of his senior people) said would change anything in Gaza, and any Labour leader aspiring to be PM, needs to succeed with the public, this means showing authority with his senior people.

Whilst its true his personal charm is sometime lacking, he's not there to be loved by everybody or to flatter others, but to lead the Labour Party to potentially one of its greatest ever majorities in the UK Parliament, so that at last some real Labour ideas can come to fruition in the UK.
 

Bert_

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Maticmaker said:
I would reverse both the above. I think Starmer has shown good leadership on this very difficult matter and was not just speaking for effect, he knew nothing he (or any of his senior people) said would change anything in Gaza, and any Labour leader aspiring to be PM, needs to succeed with the public, this means showing authority with his senior people.

Whilst its true his personal charm is sometime lacking, he's not there to be loved by everybody or to flatter others, but to lead the Labour Party to potentially one of its greatest ever majorities in the UK Parliament, so that at last some real Labour ideas can come to fruition in the UK.
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It's poor tactics during a period when the Tory party were imploding (again). Just allow a free vote and keep yourself out of the spotlight and let the press focus on the Tories continued meltdown.

On the bolded - What real Labour ideas are these?
 

decorativeed

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Maticmaker said:
I would reverse both the above. I think Starmer has shown good leadership on this very difficult matter and was not just speaking for effect, he knew nothing he (or any of his senior people) said would change anything in Gaza, and any Labour leader aspiring to be PM, needs to succeed with the public, this means showing authority with his senior people.

Whilst its true his personal charm is sometime lacking, he's not there to be loved by everybody or to flatter others, but to lead the Labour Party to potentially one of its greatest ever majorities in the UK Parliament, so that at last some real Labour ideas can come to fruition in the UK.
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Okay. He's shown an authoritative streak and needless poor leadership.
 

Maticmaker

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Bert_ said:
It's poor tactics during a period when the Tory party were imploding (again). Just allow a free vote and keep yourself out of the spotlight and let the press focus on the Tories continued meltdown.

On the bolded - What real Labour ideas are these?
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Allowing free votes and keeping out of the spot light are incompatible, whatever he did he would be under attack from somewhere, his own fringe people, or the right wing. It was a serious topic which everyone wishes would end, but outsiders can do nothing to force the issue with either side, certainly not at the moment.

I would hope the ideas coming from a Labour Government with a large majority, would rank alongside e.g. the post war legislation such as the NHS Act and the Education Act, both of which changed the lives of millions of ordinary folk in the intervening years. I would hope that legislation to ensure there are sufficient/decent housing building programmes to ensure people, whatever their need or position, can have real access to; that water and energy are under the direct control of the state, terms like 'the working poor' are eliminated not with a false benefit system, but through earnings in real jobs. In other words, housing, water, energy/heating, employment, requires legislation to ensure the majority who keep the wheels turning get what they deserve.
It will take at least two terms and a strong Labour leader, who is backed by senior people who want exactly the same outcomes.
 

Bert_

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Maticmaker said:
Allowing free votes and keeping out of the spot light are incompatible, whatever he did he would be under attack from somewhere, his own fringe people, or the right wing. It was a serious topic which everyone wishes would end, but outsiders can do nothing to force the issue with either side, certainly not at the moment.
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No one paid any attention to the vote until Starmer faced a front bench rebellion. If he'd allowed a free vote then the no one would have noticed.

Maticmaker said:
I would hope the ideas coming from a Labour Government with a large majority, would rank alongside e.g. the post war legislation such as the NHS Act and the Education Act, both of which changed the lives of millions of ordinary folk in the intervening years. I would hope that legislation to ensure there are sufficient/decent housing building programmes to ensure people, whatever their need or position, can have real access to; that water and energy are under the direct control of the state, terms like 'the working poor' are eliminated not with a false benefit system, but through earnings in real jobs. In other words, housing, water, energy/heating, employment, requires legislation to ensure the majority who keep the wheels turning get what they deserve.
It will take at least two terms and a strong Labour leader, who is backed by senior people who want exactly the same outcomes.
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I hope for the same thing. Starmer is not campaigning on any of those things though.
 

Jippy

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Bert_ said:
No one paid any attention to the vote until Starmer faced a front bench rebellion. If he'd allowed a free vote then the no one would have noticed.
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I don't think that's totally true. The right wing press would likely have made a song and dance about Labour frontbenchers voting for a ceasefire, but it would clearly have been less of a shitshow.

It feels like we're in a parallel universe where calling for a ceasefire on humanitarian grounds is seen as a heinous act. It's one thing thinking it would be tactically or militarily naive, but treating it on a par with treason is frankly bizarre.
 

Maticmaker

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Bert_ said:
No one paid any attention to the vote until Starmer faced a front bench rebellion. If he'd allowed a free vote then the no one would have noticed.

Sorry, I think that is just wishful thinking. For a man who wants to be PM, facing down a frontbench rebellion is preferable to showing he can be dragooned into making sympathetic but yet pointless gestures, on things he has no control over.

I hope for the same thing. Starmer is not campaigning on any of those things though.
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He is not really campaigning on anything, until the GE date is known. It's called 'keeping your powder dry', or trying not to signal your objectives to your enemy in advance. At last we might have a Labour leader who knows the basic facts of political life. The Tories are going down with all hands, he is (hopefully) not going to throw them a lifeline, or allow them to deflect him.

The vast majority of people in the UK are utterly fed-up with the Tories (even I suspect many Tories), but that's not enough just to win power, he needs a large enough majority in Parliament that can use power when they get there, to make the seismic changes needed and it wont be done in one or even two terms.

I suspect Starmer appreciates that there is only one Poll that counts and that is determined on the day of the GE.
 
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Herman Toothrot

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Maticmaker said:
He is not really campaigning on anything, until the GE date is known. It's called 'keeping your powder dry', or trying not to signal your objectives to your enemy in advance. At last we might have a Labour leader who knows the basic facts of political life. The Tories are going down with all hands, he is (hopefully) not going to throw them a lifeline, or allow them to deflect him.

The vast majority of people in the UK are utterly fed-up with the Tories (even I suspect many Tories), but that's not enough just to win power, he needs a large enough majority in Parliament that can use power when they get there, to make the seismic changes needed and it wont be done in one or even two terms.

I suspect Starmer appreciates that there is only one Poll that counts and that is determined on the day of the GE.
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The Leader is Good
The Leader Is Great
We Surrender Our Will
After This Date
 

Mogget

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FireballXL5 said:
Hey hey, we're the Tories...

Labour unlikely to meet its £28bn green pledge at all

It is unlikely a Labour government will be able to meet its ambition to spend £28bn a year on green initiatives, a source close to Sir Keir Starmer has told the BBC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67528894
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You see, the problem Labour has is there's no money to improve the country because the Tories have ruined the economy.

Labour can only start spending money after they've been in government and had a chance to improve the economy, and they're going to do this by.. *checks notes* not changing a thing and continuing with austerity.
 

Jericholyte2

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Drainy said:
How many times did Sunak mention Corbyn?

Working from the office today so will catch up after work.
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None, but he mentioned Starmer listing 'Ode to Joy' when asked if he'd describe the Labour Party as a piece of music, suggesting it showed his love for the EU and how he'd chose the EU over UK all the time.

Starmer KO'd him with some very good zingers for a change.

- "In an effort to hide from his failures, the Prime Minister spent this week arguing about an ancient relic, that only a tiny minority of the British public have any interest in. Mister Speaker that's enough about the Tory Party..."

- Referencing Rishi losing his marbles, pissing off a NATO ally

- "The Prime Minister seems to have a reverse Midas touch where everything turns to, well, perhaps the Home Secretary can come up with the word..."
 

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Jericholyte2 said:
None, but he mentioned Starmer listing 'Ode to Joy' when asked if he'd describe the Labour Party as a piece of music, suggesting it showed his love for the EU and how he'd chose the EU over UK all the time.

Starmer KO'd him with some very good zingers for a change.

- "In an effort to hide from his failures, the Prime Minister spent this week arguing about an ancient relic, that only a tiny minority of the British public have any interest in. Mister Speaker that's enough about the Tory Party..."

- Referencing Rishi losing his marbles, pissing off a NATO ally

- "The Prime Minister seems to have a reverse Midas touch where everything turns to, well, perhaps the Home Secretary can come up with the word..."
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Finally listened to it. I get that it was a full on ownage, but kinda hate the attacking the Tories from the right on immigration
 

Sweet Square

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Dobba said:
Migrants and the unable to work being to blame for everything is good again. The grown ups are back in charge.
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:lol:

It’s so strange as back in 2015 they made these arguments and Labour members on mass rejected it.

But fast forward to 2023 with Starmer grilling the tories for not shooting disabled people out of a canon and…..party members are like Starmer DESTROYS in Rishi Sunak debate.
 

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Sweet Square said:
:lol:

It’s so strange as back in 2015 they made these arguments and Labour members on mass rejected it.

But fast forward to 2023 with Starmer grilling the tories for not shooting disabled people out of a canon and…..party members are like Starmer DESTROYS in Rishi Sunak debate.
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Thank goodness that horrible pause, where we had to pretend migrants and the disabled were human beings like the rest of us, is over. #KS4PM #GTTO
 

Frosty

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Tory donor says Keir Starmer ‘more receptive to his ideas than Rishi Sunak’

A billionaire Tory donor has said Keir Starmer is more receptive to his ideas than Rishi Sunak.

John Caudwell was the Conservative party’s biggest donor in the run-up to the 2019 general election, during which he gave £500,000 to Boris Johnson’s campaign.

But the founder of the now defunct mobile phone retailer Phones4U said he could no longer support the Tories in September and remained open to donating to the Labour party after Sunak chose to delay net zero measures. Cauldwell said at the time he was “beyond shocked” at the prime minister’s decision to suspend the ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2030 to 2035.

Caudwell views the Tory’s net zero position as “nothing short of self-sabotage” and suggested on BBC Radio 4’s Any Questions programme on Friday that the party leader with whom he has most in common was Starmer.

“I’ve met with Keir Starmer and he is more receptive to my ideas than the Tory party,” he said. “Will that mean I donate? I can’t answer that. But what I can tell you is that any party that makes Britain great by having the right policies … I’ll donate to.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-more-receptive-to-his-ideas-than-rishi-sunak
 

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Frosty said:
Tory donor says Keir Starmer ‘more receptive to his ideas than Rishi Sunak’

A billionaire Tory donor has said Keir Starmer is more receptive to his ideas than Rishi Sunak.

John Caudwell was the Conservative party’s biggest donor in the run-up to the 2019 general election, during which he gave £500,000 to Boris Johnson’s campaign.

But the founder of the now defunct mobile phone retailer Phones4U said he could no longer support the Tories in September and remained open to donating to the Labour party after Sunak chose to delay net zero measures. Cauldwell said at the time he was “beyond shocked” at the prime minister’s decision to suspend the ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2030 to 2035.

Caudwell views the Tory’s net zero position as “nothing short of self-sabotage” and suggested on BBC Radio 4’s Any Questions programme on Friday that the party leader with whom he has most in common was Starmer.

“I’ve met with Keir Starmer and he is more receptive to my ideas than the Tory party,” he said. “Will that mean I donate? I can’t answer that. But what I can tell you is that any party that makes Britain great by having the right policies … I’ll donate to.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-more-receptive-to-his-ideas-than-rishi-sunak
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Caudwell has always come across as an odd guy. I suppose at least he's open that he's trying to influence policy with his money, but the whole system stinks.
 

Bert_

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Frosty said:
Tory donor says Keir Starmer ‘more receptive to his ideas than Rishi Sunak’

A billionaire Tory donor has said Keir Starmer is more receptive to his ideas than Rishi Sunak.

John Caudwell was the Conservative party’s biggest donor in the run-up to the 2019 general election, during which he gave £500,000 to Boris Johnson’s campaign.

But the founder of the now defunct mobile phone retailer Phones4U said he could no longer support the Tories in September and remained open to donating to the Labour party after Sunak chose to delay net zero measures. Cauldwell said at the time he was “beyond shocked” at the prime minister’s decision to suspend the ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2030 to 2035.

Caudwell views the Tory’s net zero position as “nothing short of self-sabotage” and suggested on BBC Radio 4’s Any Questions programme on Friday that the party leader with whom he has most in common was Starmer.

“I’ve met with Keir Starmer and he is more receptive to my ideas than the Tory party,” he said. “Will that mean I donate? I can’t answer that. But what I can tell you is that any party that makes Britain great by having the right policies … I’ll donate to.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-more-receptive-to-his-ideas-than-rishi-sunak
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Phones4u founder vows to leave UK if Corbyn brings in higher taxes
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...udwell-vows-to-leave-uk-to-avoid-higher-taxes

A true patriot
 
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