Mockney
Not the only poster to be named Poster of the Year
Remember when everyone got so (rightly) outraged when the MP for Kensington voted against implementing the Grenfell report?
We’re that now.
The Guardian has not been a paper of the political left for a very long time. We know the game now. Write a lot of feminist articles but take down even the modest politics of the left. They were advising voting Lib Dem not so long ago. It's a lifestyle and conscience massaging magazine mostly.Also, again indicating the utter inconsistency, 2 frontbenchers resign their roles and it's nowhere to be seen on The Guardian front-page. That was the kind of story they featured above everything else for the past 5 years.
i mean it could also be that over the last 5 years there has not typically been a global pandemic with local and central governments seemingly in disagreement about the exact imposition of restrictions that will impacts 10's of million of peopleAlso, again indicating the utter inconsistency, 2 frontbenchers resign their roles and it's nowhere to be seen on The Guardian front-page. That was the kind of story they featured above everything else for the past 5 years.
It's unprecedented for a local authority to defy the government like this, particularly during a re-escalating global pandemic, and the new restrictions impact millions of lives. You need to be realistic.Also, again indicating the utter inconsistency, 2 frontbenchers resign their roles and it's nowhere to be seen on The Guardian front-page. That was the kind of story they featured above everything else for the past 5 years.
i mean it could also be that over the last 5 years there has not typically been a global pandemic with local and central governments seemingly in disagreement about the exact imposition of restrictions that will impacts 10's of million of people
It's unprecedented for a local authority to defy the government like this, particularly during a re-escalating global pandemic, and the new restrictions impact millions of lives. You need to be realistic.
Most people won't even have heard of those frontbenchers who resigned,
Come on @Jippy : are you telling me that the frontbenchers resigning under Corbyn were household names?It's unprecedented for a local authority to defy the government like this, particularly during a re-escalating global pandemic, and the new restrictions impact millions of lives. You need to be realistic.
Most people won't even have heard of those frontbenchers who resigned,
Fair point on the lack of name recognition re Corbyn's frontbenchers quitting, but he was well into double-digits, which was obviously very newsworthy in itself, compared to two yesterday.Come on @Jippy : are you telling me that the frontbenchers resigning under Corbyn were household names?
I'm not suggesting it should be the banner headline given what's going on but they're just not covering this story at all. This is the Guardian, self styled bastion of liberalism and human rights.
I'm no fan of Corbyn and Momentum (I want a complete split) but I have to say you are right on this one, the coverage has not been equal.Come on @Jippy : are you telling me that the frontbenchers resigning under Corbyn were household names?
I'm not suggesting it should be the banner headline given what's going on but they're just not covering this story at all. This is the Guardian, self styled bastion of liberalism and human rights.
Like any paper The Guardian has an editorial agenda, and the idea that internal Labour politics was genuinely the most important news issue of the day every time they prominently featured it is for the birds. And when I say frontpage I really meant on the website, where the lack of any feature of the bill is pretty shocking from a supposedly liberal paper:
Tbh I was a bit surprised that I had to actively go into the UK politics section to find it, as it wasn't immediately visible on the homepage.Like any paper The Guardian has an editorial agenda, and the idea that internal Labour politics was genuinely the most important news issue of the day every time they prominently featured it is for the birds. And when I say frontpage I really meant on the website, where the lack of any feature of the bill is pretty shocking from a supposedly liberal paper:
Powerful criticism of the government’s performance on COVID-19 and disability employment by Labour’s shadow minister for disabled people was significantly watered down by her own party, Disability News Service (DNS) can reveal.
An email mistakenly sent to DNS yesterday (Wednesday) by a member of Vicky Foxcroft’s staff shows that her original draft comments attacking the government were weakened by someone within the party hierarchy.
The changes made by the party include the removal of a reference to the “vital” role played by trade unions in protecting disabled people from discrimination.
The party also removed any reference to disability discrimination from Foxcroft’s comments.
Yep. People can talk about tactics and politicking, but this is an issue where any chance of a Tory rebellion was snuffed out because Labour applied zero pressure.Yes and rightly so. Should be far more.
Don't think there is anything wrong with having ambition to be leader of your party and the election closed the door on remain, so I don't know what she's on about.
Don't think there is anything wrong with having ambition to be leader of your party and the election closed the door on remain, so I don't know what she's on about.
Don't think there is anything wrong with having ambition to be leader of your party and the election closed the door on remain, so I don't know what she's on about.
Unlike the referendum and the 2017 election. What was it, best out of 5?
So he should be all about rejoin then.It’s almost as if we’d already left the European Union when Starmer became leader.
So he should be all about rejoin then.
He might be privately, but that’s not what was being discussed.So he should be all about rejoin then.
And that might win over the liberal elites but it will further alienate the former red wall.
I’m a remainer but it’s clear as fecking day that Brexit is done and dusted. Campaigning for rejoining before the effects have even been felt is a daft idea. You need to wait until its actually understood what a clusterfeck it is before you can even think about that. The likelihood is that we’re going to have to wait for the boomer generation to die off or at least thin out in both numbers and political capital massively before rejoining becomes part of the agenda. I imagine that when GenX is 70+ and Millennials are 50+ there will be enough nostalgia and enough motivation to rejoin the EU but there is zero chance that will happen in the next 15 years let alone 5.
I'd disagree on that actuallyAnd that might win over the liberal elites but it will further alienate the former red wall.
I’m a remainer but it’s clear as fecking day that Brexit is done and dusted. Campaigning for rejoining before the effects have even been felt is a daft idea. You need to wait until its actually understood what a clusterfeck it is before you can even think about that. The likelihood is that we’re going to have to wait for the boomer generation to die off or at least thin out in both numbers and political capital massively before rejoining becomes part of the agenda. I imagine that when GenX is 70+ and Millennials are 50+ there will be enough nostalgia and enough motivation to rejoin the EU but there is zero chance that will happen in the next 15 years let alone 5.
It's a bit of a tangent to your wider point, but what are the expectations of the 'red wall' voters' future voting patterns. Fine Brexit was the big factor and clearly Corby scared some off, but has their been any modelling or surveys of how many are expected to stick with the Tories in the next election? Or is it just way too early?But, on the other hand, what is it you actually want from Starmer?
I fully understand the arguments that you are making here, I even argued for him taking a step back out of political pragmatism early in his leadership, but at this point what is it all for? He's ceding ground on all issues to placate 'red wall' voters without landing any meaningful blows on the Conservatives and, worse, giving them carte blanche to do whatever they like on a a whole range of areas out of a paralysing fear that actually standing up for Labour values will lose him support.
So what's the end result? Because if the actual values you want in a Labour leader are the anathema to red wall voters you're arguing they are then isn't the end result grimly predictable? Either you're left with a leader who continues to lead according to the confines of what the Daily Mail says is ok, and in doing so cede further ground to the right, or, when Starmer pulls back the mask and reveals himself to actually have had the progressive politics that he was voted in for having, is abandoned in their droves by voters who don't share those politics.
I can't see how you can square the circle.
He’s half JewishLen McCluskey accused of antisemitism after ‘count your gold’ jibe to Peter Mandelson
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ism-peter-mandelson-gold-labour-b1176745.html
Guess you can be Anti-Semitic to non Jews now.
It's a bit of a tangent to your wider point, but what are the expectations of the 'red wall' voters' future voting patterns. Fine Brexit was the big factor and clearly Corby scared some off, but has their been any modelling or surveys of how many are expected to stick with the Tories in the next election? Or is it just way too early?
It’s almost as if we’d already left the European Union when Starmer became leader.
Mandelson doesn't view himself as Jewish and wasn't raised Jewish(And his dad wasn't really Jewish according to Mandelson).He’s half Jewish
You've made this point before as if it's some kind of gotcha, when the point Abbott and others are making is that there has been a duplicity in pushing Labour under Corbyn to become more pro-EU, more remain, and that has completely gone out of the window once he took up the leadership. Obviously coronavirus is dominating the news, but it's quite likely we are heading towards no deal Brexit with barely a peep from the opposition, or all of the pro-EU organisations.
You must admit it is weird how the People's Vote campaign, or Better Together, Our Future Our Choice, etc have all just downed tools and their funding has disappeared, after the 2019 result – an election where more people voted for parties that supported a referendum or even revoking the result than the those promising to implement it – compared to 2017 when 82% of the electorate voted for parties that were promising to complete Brexit.
Is hard not to feel that even if Brexit isn't economically disastrous somehow -and maybe the real pain will take time to come through- surely these historic Labour voters can be won back when the Tories inevitably start cutting benefits and services. Or at least some of them.There was an article not so long back in the NS that showed support there was holding up and the Brexit divide remains.
Labours gains right now are mainly Lib Dem votes, some further support in the South and that the Tories have more former voters undecided.
Given the shit storm we're walking into it's far too soon to say. If Brexit isn't a disaster then there shouldn't be any expectation of gaining those votes. I've not seen much on Tory remainers but i can't see them jumping in the required numbers or in the areas needed. Those gained Southern votes for instance are largely pointless given majorities.
Labour will need to come up with something appealing because i severely doubt a 'not the other guy" strategy will work.
Something rather crucial happened between those two points: a Tory party led by arch-Brexiteers landslided an election to a historic degree and then Brexit actually happened. "Remain" is now politically as dead as dead can be, which wasn't the case immediately after the referendum. It's hardly duplicity to recognise to change positions when circumstances have clearly shifted.
Also, one of the main criticisms I saw of Starmer as a potential Labour leader was that he was too associated with the "remain" position to appeal to the voters Labour needed to win back. At which point you wonder what exactly he's supposed to do now that he is leader? If he keeps pushing remain/rejoin when it's politically dead then he's criticised for alienating voters, if he moves on from the remain/rejoin position he's instead criticised for being duplicitous.