Aye, it seems physical performance stats are hard to come by though.
Kevin De Bruyne
- Thread starter Robbie Boy
- Start date
Not sure what his stats are this season but I'd be surprised if he's in the top 10 in the league, he probably doesn't cover as much as Fernandinho either. He's also playing a bit deeper this season, I think what would illustrate things more would be number of sprints as he's contributing to defence more this season than in previous seasons.
Champions League is the bigger stage. If City lose one leg vs Basle, they could lose the tournament. In the Prem, there is less pressure. You lose a game and you have another in a few days to rectify things.
He was number 1 in the entire CL after four games.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...otball-news/man-city-de-bruyne-stats-13869909
Added to his number of sprints and you have to raise an eyebrow. I certainly did after the Spurs game. That said, I remember watching Robben for Bayern in the CL under Pep and saying the same.
4 games for me isn't a big enough sample and average is better, especially as 2 of those games were against Napoli which was always going to be intensive for all midfielders.
edit: and I know this is all players but a few weeks ago 9 teams have covered more total distance than us in games, which I was surprised at.
https://www.dreamteamfc.com/c/news-gossip/371527/premier-league-table-distance-covered-this-season/
edit 2:
Though those numbers don't make sense to me, only around 200 meters between top and bottom, I thought it would have been a far bigger number than that.
I feel like a player's domestic record is a better gauge since there is a much larger sample size. And I have yet to see a player who dominated in the PL, La Liga, Serie A or Bundesliga who also did not excel at the CL level.
Usually they are premium stats and are accessible only by journalists I think.
For CL it's easy to get.
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsl.../round=2000881/players/index.html#order=3desc
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Distance covered by the whole team doesn't tell you much about individuals though. Truth is, you would need detailed statistical evidence and a knowledge of PEDs on performance to make any claims with certainty. In the absence of that I give Pep and KDB the benefit of the doubt.
He had one of the highest distance covered numbers in the group stage of the last World Cup.
http://www.thebesteleven.com/2014/06/2014-world-cup-1st-group-phase-players.html
http://www.thebesteleven.com/2014/06/2014-world-cup-1st-group-phase-players.html
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It wouldn't just be distance covered though, it would be if that has increased, if his sprinting has increased and if he is playing more games (recovery rates). Information that we don't have. Also 'pretty good v02 max' is completely useless information.
Ok will catch up with you mate when I have more evidence of him doings drugs xx
Absolutely useless if it doesn't fit with the narrative, "Pep is doping all his players", otherwise an interesting stat. Get a grip guys, there was no one behind the grassy knoll and they did land on the moon.
I understand your point of view. Naturally you think it is bitterness from United fans and my allegiance will colour my perception at least a little (probably a lot). But the amount of smoke around Pep's Barca team and the way he gets extra physical intensity out of his teams is enough to cause legitimate questions IMO.
could it be that in replacing the likes of Zaba, Yaya, Clichy, Navas with Walker, Gundogan, Zinchenko/Delph, Sane he's buying players who are younger, faster and fitter and suited to high intensity football, when you have the football 70% of the time the amount of high intensity pressing off the opposition is going to be lower than the likes of Burnley when you're just pressing to get the ball back
It’s 164 kilometers, not meters.
It is useless, if anything it doesn't support Pep anyway. You would expect him to have an exceptional v02 max the way he is playing I would have thought. It is far too vague to deduce anything, however.
In all seriousness, you're speaking to the wrong City fans if they think De Bruyne's work rate has only increased this season. He's always put a serious shift in. Not only that, but his role in the side has changed slightly which means he covers more ground almost by default. Going from being a right-sided #10 to a box-to-box midfielder over the space of twelve months has given him more responsibility.
I understand it's hard for some United fans to accept that we're far and away the best team in the country with one of the very best players in Europe tied down to a long contract, but De Bruyne's always had the potential to be a world class player and he's currently just playing at his peak age. Sometimes the most obvious answer is the correct one.
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ahh right cheers, that makes sense now then
It's sensitive subject but this isn't something that wasn't touched by managers.
Not saying KdB did it, but doping in football is real.
There are so many players who even agreed that they felt fitter and had spring in their step after some injections.
Not saying KdB did it, but doping in football is real.
Hard to compare him to Rooney right now who produced at most big stages from 18 to 31 whether it be big clashes on route to league triumps in a team that dominated English football or delivering in the champions league, winning it and also reaching finals.
I wouldn't say KDB has only just arrived. He's been good for awhile but he has a long way to go. Also in Rooneys defence regarding the top level bit, KDB hasn't had to adjust/do the donkey work for someone of Ronaldo's ability.
I wouldn't say KDB has only just arrived. He's been good for awhile but he has a long way to go. Also in Rooneys defence regarding the top level bit, KDB hasn't had to adjust/do the donkey work for someone of Ronaldo's ability.
Are you a match going fan?
In all seriousness, you're speaking to the wrong City fans if they think De Bruyne's work rate has only increased this season. He's always put a serious shift in. Not only that, but his role in the side has changed slightly which means he covers more ground almost by default. Going from being a right-sided #10 to a box-to-box midfielder over the space of twelve months has given him more responsibility.
I understand it's hard for some United fans to accept that we're far and away the best team in the country with one of the very best players in Europe tied down to a long contract, but De Bruyne's always had the potential to be a world class player and he's currently just playing at his peak age. Sometimes the most obvious answer is the correct one.
I like your posts but this doesn't make sense to me. Physically wise, Rooney and Gerrard were superior to Platini: quicker and more explosive. Both were playing box to box and were crucial in both phases of the game (except when Rooney was a CF). Same with KDB. KDB is a superior athlete to Platini. Platini was more technical and generally a class above but unlike Maradona he wasn't a great athlete.
Btw, I'm talking about Platini because the first thought when I was watching KDB's debut for City was that his passing reminds me of Platini. Platini was a late bloomer. He was a top playewr already in the French league but he bacame Platini once he moved to Juve. His best period was when he was 27-31 y.o.
He's the best CM in world football and I'm so jealous that he plays for them cnuts.
Season ticket holder since 2003.
Missed a few games this season for health reasons, and I couldn't make the Leicester game because I'm currently sofa-bound with gout, but I've only missed 2/3 games a season (roughly) for the last fifteen years.
I'm not sure why this matters, though.
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Thomas Müller ran two marathons over the course of the WC (12 km per game) and has a history of running around 12 km per match in important games. There's natural variation to players' stamina like to all things.
The bold is what makes the comparison so crazy; Gerrard isn't some mug, and for all the mocking of him as "Stevie Me" or the discussions about his positional awareness and acumen, he was still an incredible player and a genuine force in his own right. Players 'miles ahead of him' are the greatest to have ever played football.
I've said myself De Bruyne has set some foundations to be a WPOTY contender, but from now until the end of the season is when we really get to see if he has those kind of credentials or whether he is 'just' a flat-track bully in the grand scheme of things.
Where the accepted top tier now come alive, players like De Bruyne has to also and match the kind of bar those kind of players will be gliding along, almost undoubtedly.
But you're not honestly comparing the above with Gerrard's catalogue of feats in the CL, are you? Which is the problem when you pull such a name out of the bag to say De Bruyne is miles ahead of - you're then putting him to a level of scrutiny and comparison where he falls massively short at this moment in time.
And the CL is the pinnacle of club football in terms of quality, pressure and prestige. All players know and acknowledge this and it's the same pressure that separates the good from the great. A player who shines among peers at that level is indisputable. The next avenue for such players is challenging historic greats and becoming all-timers via additional feats in NT competition.
Domestic form is generally a given for those who shine in the CL. You have rare cases like Zidane who would amble through lesser club games but really come to life in the grander contests, but overall, CL superstars tear up domestic football to the point where unless they're doing something exceptional even for them, it barely gets a mention in the grand scheme of things.
If De Bruyne, Kane and Salah carry their performance over to the CL, they will be catapulted into a new strata. If they fall short, questions will be asked as to why.
De Bruyne has been fantastic in domestic football and you're right, he can only beat what's in front of him, but, it's safe to say this is not the most impressive of seasons when City have no cohesive challengers to even run them close. Even if you totally remove City from the table, not one team has got their shit together for a prolonged period of time to look like the real deal.
Perhaps there's a Premception in the making where Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea and ourselves stroll into the next phases... if that happens, perception will be changed once more and De Bruyne's stock goes up via what he's done to fellow latter-stage CL qualifiers, but we'll see about that.
As it stands, the usual top dogs are seen as the teams to beat and the PL's domestic level doesn't make you think automatically that our teams can march through European opposition as was once expected in the halcyon period of the late 00's.
It was match going fans I talked to. You see a lot more of the off the ball work when you go to the games as opposed to watching on the TV.
When uou think about it, it's kind of crazy that gerrad is the second greatest liverpool player when you look at their trophy cabinet. Not taking anything away from him, but he wouldn't crack the top 5 at milan(van basten, gullit, sheva, kaka, pirlo, rivera, weah...), madrid(di stefano, cristiano, zidane, figo, puskas, raul, ronaldo...), barcelona(messi, xavi, iniesta, ronaldo, ronaldinho, rivaldo, kubala, cruyff, romario, laudrup...), juventus(platini, zidane, sivori, charles, del piero...), even united imho...
Have to wonder where does this "Zidane wasn't consistently tearing leagues apart" comes from. It's like people haven't really followed him much
Think De Bruyne is both more talented and better in terms of ability than gerrard. But you're right that gerrard proved himself in CL, something De Bruyne hasn't quite done yet
I think that's something more unique to English football, really. Liverpool always worked by the sum of the parts being greater than any individual during their apex, so apart from Dalglish, Barnes and Souness, the plaudits are very evenly spread out through their best teams. Suarez wasn't around long enough neither were Torres or Fowler, so there isn't really any other individuals to challenge. United is where it's at for world renowned all-timers (Best, Charlton, Ronaldo etc.) with possibly only Henry, Cole and, to a lesser extent, Vieira and Bergkamp in that kind of company as far as the world stage is concerned.When uou think about it, it's kind of crazy that gerrad is the second greatest liverpool player when you look at their trophy cabinet. Not taking anything away from him, but he wouldn't crack the top 5 at milan(van basten, gullit, sheva, kaka, pirlo, rivera, weah...), madrid(di stefano, cristiano, zidane, figo, puskas, raul, ronaldo...), barcelona(messi, xavi, iniesta, ronaldo, ronaldinho, rivaldo, kubala, cruyff, romario, laudrup...), juventus(platini, zidane, sivori, charles, del piero...), even united imho...
Have to wonder where does this "Zidane wasn't consistently tearing leagues apart" comes from. It's like people haven't really followed him much
Think De Bruyne is both more talented and better in terms of ability than gerrard. But you're right that gerrard proved himself in CL, something De Bruyne hasn't quite done yet
There's also the thing that a lot of the continental clubs by ready-made stars and then claim the glory of them for putting up the cash. IF you go buy what those clubs nurtured themselves, I don't think the sides would look dramatically different. Thread time!
Zidane was always pretty infamous for his indifference in smaller games. Sometimes he would, sometimes he wouldn't - they weren't a measure of the man like you could say for others who were consistently brilliant no matter who they played against.
Yeah, see, i've watched him for 10 years and that's only really true of like 3 seasons, 2 of which were the last 2 of his career, the other one juventus' horrible 98/99 season. Zidane was no less consistent than any other great player
As for liverpool, it's something i've always found both odd, fascinating and admirable about them, to have won so much without having any real all time top 10/20(i mean, compare even dalglish with some of the guys i mentioned...). Kind of explains their ****-like worship of managers...
Out of interest how old are you? Dalglish was some footballer as was Keegan, add in top players like Souness, Hansen, Johnson, McDermott and you had a great team. I honestly think players like Keegan and Dalglish are vastly underrated by the generation watching football now
Are people seriously bringing up doping to talk a player down? Wow, that’s next level pathetic - and probably tells us how good he is. One probably shouldn’t bring up such a thing unless there are serious whispers or evidence brought forward.
They certainly are, but saying Dalglish wasn't on the same level as Di Stefano, Platini, Van Basten, isn't underrating him, it's the truth. He wasn't that good. And that's the thing: liverpool had a lot of great players but very few who stand out among the all time greats, and it's kind of weird considering their historical success, and especially when compared to similarly successfull clubs
The OP should add "Dismissed by Mourinho at Chelsea" in the thread title. Just saying :P
Keegan was excellent but Dalglish was an absolutely magnificent player and is right up there with some of the finest British players of all time.
I might be wrong and I don't know if it was because English clubs were so dominant in the late 70's and early 80's but I honestly think if Dalglish had pulled on the Juve or Real Madrid strips of the early 80's and won a EC with either of those he'd be talked about in the terms of the players above.
This doesn't make sense to me. Liverpool dominated european football during that era. Why would dalglish not be seen as on the same level as those guys because he played on the best team of the era?
He played for a crap NT.
Even though English sides dominated Europe completely in that era they didn't get any respect from the Ballon D'Or, which was decided by journalists. Keegan won it twice as soon as he left England and there seemed to be a very heavy bias towards German football. If you look at the winners in that era there is a heavy bias toward performances at international level too. Linekar came second on back of being top scorer at the world cup.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballon_d'Or
I'd say he was on the same level as those guys, he was as good if not better than Rummenigger, he was better than Keegan and despite winning the EC 6 times on the trot not one player of an English club won the Ballon d'Or or was even in the top3, Keegan moves to Hamburg and guess what, wins the Ballon d'Or.
edit: see above