Kevin Friend

OGkush

Hey man, got any papers?
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
4,141
Location
Slovenia
was a disgrace tonight...thankfully it didn't cost us points
 

Offsideagain

Full Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
800
Location
Cheshire
We all now know that if you jump first and highest and a defender backs into you, then it’s foul ON THE DEFENDER. Remember that as you can bet your pension everyone else will get awarded a goal. Just like Rooney getting a ban for swearing before a semi-final. No player before or after that has been banned. Odd that.
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

Gullible
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
18,684
Location
The Mathews Bridge
The fact he didn't give Brady a red card on the pitch before VAR reviewed was a terrible decision in its own right. That's as clear of a red as you'll see. That's a certain goal without that challenge, as Cavani either finishes it or squares it.

I do think VAR influenced his decision more than the actual events. They froze the frame on Shaw with his studs up, but Shaw's studs didn't catch the Burnley player. The freeze frame just makes it look like it does. In motion, Shaw's foot goes behind the player's leg. He clearly plays the ball first, but the follow through muddy's the waters a little.

The Maguire goal was the worst of the lot though. Awful decision.
 

Tony247

Full Member
Joined
May 2, 2018
Messages
3,907
Disgraceful. Infuriating. Outrageous.
 

Jonno

Full Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
7,876
Location
Preston, Lancashire
Shaw foul - I hate the foul rule when you win the ball but momentum goes into the player. It used to be a great tackle but now it’s deemed a bad foul. As much as I hate to say it, it’s a foul in 2021

Maguire scored a brilliant goal and should have stood
 

Ace of Spades

Full Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
4,072
Jesus christ. If you literally run into a tackle with your foot in full reach/studs out, there is obviously a big possibility of clattering the opponent, which he does. Funny thing is, his foot also changes direction a little bit before impact from the last angle shown. Only luck separates Shaw from solid contact and a certain red card. It’s not a 50/50 when Shaw goes straight into the player with his studs and the other does not, touching the ball (slightly) or not.

Who says you can’t challenge? You just can’t go into a challenge at that pace with your studs without risk. Poor tackle, if it was the other way around people would be furious on this very forum right now.
Except he did not go with his studs out. You repeating it endlessly won't make it true. He kicked the ball on to the player, and then the momentum took him forward. VAR does not check for every foul, and only gets involved if there is a clear red, which this was not. The only decision to look for whether he would give red to Burnley after that.

It was pathetic reffing all game
 

drmuji

Full Member
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
2,254
Location
Lahore, Pakistan
No Idea if these referees get a feedback or not at half time but if they do, this guy must have gotten alot.
You make wrong decisions, I can take that but booking a player for moaning about it makes it even worse. I dont know why he needed to book Bruno when he just didn't see a foul on him.
 

Cpt Negative

Full Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2010
Messages
2,481
No Idea if these referees get a feedback or not at half time but if they do, this guy must have gotten alot.
You make wrong decisions, I can take that but booking a player for moaning about it makes it even worse. I dont know why he needed to book Bruno when he just didn't see a foul on him.
His performance in the second half was much better. Didn’t fall for Barnes throwing himself to the floor
 

Van Piorsing

Lost his light sabre
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
19,258
Location
Polska
Friendship with Friend ended, now we have no friends, but top of the league.
 

ArmchairCritic

You got pets me too mines are dead
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
15,156
He was clearly wound up in the first half and completely ruined the game as a spectacle.
 

NinjaFletch

Full Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
19,054
The fact he didn't give Brady a red card on the pitch before VAR reviewed was a terrible decision in its own right. That's as clear of a red as you'll see. That's a certain goal without that challenge, as Cavani either finishes it or squares it.

I do think VAR influenced his decision more than the actual events. They froze the frame on Shaw with his studs up, but Shaw's studs didn't catch the Burnley player. The freeze frame just makes it look like it does. In motion, Shaw's foot goes behind the player's leg. He clearly plays the ball first, but the follow through muddy's the waters a little.

The Maguire goal was the worst of the lot though. Awful decision.
I will give him a bit of a pass on that one. Generally DOGSO is held to quite a high bar, and in real time I think it's an understandable decision to think the covering defender can get across and prevent an obvious goal scoring opportunity. On replay, he's not in the frame until Brady slows everyone up by fouling Cavani and, if not for the Shaw foul, he would have been rightly sent off.

It's a weird moment for VAR because at the heart of it I think it gets every step of that right. Was it a red card? Yes. Was it a foul in the build up? Yes. Was it a sending off? No. But the length of time the process took, and how awfully it was communicated as damaged it further. We absolutely need to hear the conversation between the VAR hub and the referee rather than the commentators guessing (wrongly) at what they think is happening.
 

Crustanoid

Full Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2008
Messages
17,358
Very unprofessional. He should reflect on the fact that he shouldn’t let the prick Klopp dictate his refereeing decisions in football matches. Really should be axed from PL reffing.
 

Ace of Spades

Full Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
4,072
It was clear he wanted to establish his authority, after some of the players complained about the physical play of Burnley. Cavani especially did not get anything out of him.
 

Red00012

Full Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
4,783
He tried his best for the Scousers tonight , I’m surprised he didn’t give the Maguire handball at the end.

could not get a free in the 1st half either
 

Morpheus 7

Full Member
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
3,180
Location
Ireland
It was such a mess, worst half from a ref I've seen in a while. Whatever you think of Shaw's tackle being a red, he didn't give a foul even. Cavani was took out as the last man with a clear goalscoring opportunity, yellow straight away. Then the long long wait, VAR changing where to look. Bottled the decision, then the Maguire goal.

How that wasn't properly checked was disturbing, Harry fouls a lot in the box but that's a great goal. I think the ref was annoyed with Cavani and how Maguire handled it as captain when they spoke. Pathetic but his body language was dismissive. He booked Bruno for talking back in second half, he seemed annoyed about the amount of officiating the game requiring. In short he's another poor ref. It's got nothing to do with United now, the standard is so bad with the refs in prem. These old overweight men need to feck off, need new blood with refs close to the action. Dickheads like friend, Dean and Moss are not good for enough for the fastest league.
 

Dominos

Full Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
4,986
Location
Manchester
Won't be a popular opinion but I think Maguire's goal is a foul. I'd certainly want a free kick if we conceded that goal.

The most baffling thing for me is how he found an extra 3 and a half minutes on top of the 4 minutes stoppage time that were given.
 

RUCK4444

Full Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
4,431
Location
FIFA Headquarters
Won't be a popular opinion but I think Maguire's goal is a foul. I'd certainly want a free kick if we conceded that goal.

The most baffling thing for me is how he found an extra 3 and a half minutes on top of the 4 minutes stoppage time that were given.
Not a chance that’s a foul, the defender doesn’t even jump, he’s been done and he knows it, he lurches forward and Friend takes the bait.

Are you not allowed to touch players when you jump now? Come off it.
If that were the case Burnley would never get a goal.

You have to be able to attack the ball in the air, you can make contact as long as you don’t push the defending player.

The exact same action happened a hundred times in midfield tonight when players were scrambling to win headers, Friend never whistled for any of them that I can remember.
 

Grande

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
3,370
Location
The Land of Do-What-You-Will
Won't be a popular opinion but I think Maguire's goal is a foul. I'd certainly want a free kick if we conceded that goal.

The most baffling thing for me is how he found an extra 3 and a half minutes on top of the 4 minutes stoppage time that were given.
It’s not so much that it’s unpopular that it is out of line with current and past refereeing. If that was the bar, Alen Shearer would have ended his carreer with less goals than Andy Carroll (I’ve not counted this). I’d hazard 80% of headed goals from the back end of the box this season would have to be stricken.
 

Dominos

Full Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
4,986
Location
Manchester
Not a chance that’s a foul, the defender doesn’t even jump, he’s been done and he knows it, he lurches forward and Friend takes the bait.

Are you not allowed to touch players when you jump now? Come off it.
If that were the case Burnley would never get a goal.

You have to be able to attack the ball in the air, you can make contact as long as you don’t push the defending player.

The exact same action happened a hundred times in midfield tonight when players were scrambling to win headers, Friend never whistled for any of them that I can remember.
He bundles him over and contact came before he headed the ball, unless you think the defender has dived to the ground under insignificant contact?

This image is taken before Maguire has even touched the ball with his head. He's all over him and the defender is already on his way to the deck. It's not the most clear cut decision but put it this way - would I be happy to concede this goal in the last minute against Liverpool to lose the game? I'd be seething if we didn't get the decision.


 

Dominos

Full Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
4,986
Location
Manchester
It’s not so much that it’s unpopular that it is out of line with current and past refereeing. If that was the bar, Alen Shearer would have ended his carreer with less goals than Andy Carroll (I’ve not counted this). I’d hazard 80% of headed goals from the back end of the box this season would have to be stricken.
You may be right but when I slow it down and watch again you can see the defender's reaction to being fouled before Maguire even heads the ball, these are close decisions depending on exactly when the contact happened and how much contact - so although each of these goals may look similar there will be fractions of difference that make some of them fouls and some of them passable.

I do think there's an air of hypermasculinity when it comes to how some fans judge whether incidents are a foul. Watching football with some men you would think there's no such thing as a foul as everything is described as soft or a dive. Particular the older they are, it's always "you wouldn't get a foul for that in my day"
 

LUC1f3R

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 5, 2020
Messages
52
While I will be furious at the moment if the same thing happened against us, I would reflect on it later and can understand that it's not a foul. Did Maguire has his hand on the player? Yes, he does, but then again the opponent knew he had got out-jumped by Maguire for the ball and just made more of the push. A lot of headed goals are scored this way.

If Maguire had used his opponent to gain further height (lifting off on opponent), it would have been a foul, but Maguire actually jumped on his own and just hit the other guy when contesting the ball. Not a foul imo.

I was baffled that VAR didn't take much time to look at it further and made a hasty decision.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sultan

Djemba-Djemba

Full Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
15,185
Location
Manchester
He was fecking awful.

The Maguire disallowed goal was a scandalous decision.

And it also shouldn't be forgotten that before all the VAR stuff he saw the Robbie Brady lunge as last man on Cavani and deemed it only worthy of a yellow despite it being an utterly blatant red.

Useless.