[The Irish Connection]

Player Cam from the club, this is rare.

Class performance.
Stay clear of injuries and keep going.

 

[AdNani]

Decent, I thought. Needs to grow into his own body, though, which is understandable. Might need to consider moving away from here at some point. It would be a shame to see his talent go to waste.

Posts like this infuriate me.

 

[TheReligion]

Posts like this infuriate me.

I can’t see why any genuine United fan would come up with rubbish like that.

 

[Yagami]

I'd already have him in the England team. When you look at our options, I don't think there's anyone better to compliment Rice and Bellingham.

 

[SonOfFergie]

A little late with comment but great game by our young midfield prodigy. Tidy on the ball and won so many challenges. Remedied many mistakes by other players especially with Bruno and his carelessness of the ball again. Basically with Bruno we have a seasoned player and international giving so many balls away and you need to have 18 year old kid save your poor play. But save he did. Magnificent game by Kobbie.

Kobbie Mainoo’s game by numbers vs. Wigan: 100% dribbles completed 90% pass accuracy 86 touches 61/68 passes completed 10/13 ground duels won 8/8 tackles won 2/3 long balls completed 2/2 dribbles completed 1 key pass Flawless.

 

[Sea-Cow]

Your post shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how football works, and principally how tactics are important when setting up a team. If you take any top DM from the last 15 years and leave them alone in midfield, they are going to get dribbled past plenty. That’s why teams don’t set up with one in midfield like we seem to do. We haven’t been playing a midfield two or a midfield 3, we’ve been playing a midfield 1. That exposes the shit out of whoever is at DM, because they can’t cover all that space. It doesn’t work.

Both Carrick and Scholes could get dribbled past when isolated alone, but they operated in tandem with tactical discipline and maturity. Meanwhile we have currently set up the team to not have any. Mainoo’s lack of pace is not even remotely close to any sort of an impediment to him being a top midfielder. The only thing that will hinder his performance or expose his lack of pace is playing suicidal tactics.

ETH seems to be attempting to play a City-esque 4-1-4-1 without understanding that (a) city have the ball 70-80% of the time, so throttle opponents through possession, and (b) the two Mezzala type players in front of Rodri, De Bruyne and Silva, both get through a phenomenal amount of work. Silva plays a lot, lot deeper than most people realise, and often comes as deep as Rodri to get the ball. We on the other hand leave Bruno and McT high up the field with a massive gaping hole through the middle, which is about the most naive interpretation of 4-1-4-1 I’ve ever seen.

Casemiro plus Mainoo will be our best midfield pairing when both are fit. I think I can see that a country mile off. Failing that, Mainoo plus Eriksen, primarily because Eriksen sits deep nowadays and gives Mainoo an actual midfield partner. If you transplant Carrick, Busquets or nearly any other technical DM you can think of into this team, they will look exposed and be constantly run at and beaten, because that’s not their game - to be physical beasts over a foot race. Their game, like with Mainoo, is to be positionally intelligent, read the game well, recycle possession safely and intelligently and break the lines with their passing. All things he does very well already. It should also be noted that in physical duels he uses his body very well.

There are probably only two players in the PL era that I can think of that would be able to handle, with any consistency, the demands of playing as a midfield one in Ten Hag’s system, with the physicality, speed and technical ability to excel, and those are Keane and Vieira. Generational midfielders.

There are only two things that can happen in Ten Hag’s system, for it to work. One is to find a Keane clone, the other is to pair a sole Mainoo with two other number 10’s, who are so technically skilled at keeping the ball, that we rarely turn it over. But our two 10s are bull in a china shop McTominay, and Fernandes, who is the king of the high risk, low percentage pass - meaning more often than not we turn possession over frequently, exposing us to counter attacks where we have just one player in the middle of the park.

So yes, under such circumstances, his lack of pace is a problem, because he’s being asked to play in a system that requires him to be both a physical beast and a technical genius.

Or, you know, we could just look at this through the lens of a functional footballing unit - where we play an actually recognised midfield structure - and realise that we have a prodigious talent on our hands.

There are really two fundamental interpretations of the midfield three. A regular triangle, with two players at the base and one sitting in front. Typically two 6/8’s and a 10, or an inverted triangle with a fixed pivot (6), and two 8.5’s. An 8.5 being a player that operates between a traditional 8 and a 10. City do that perfectly. Pep’s Barca did that perfectly. There’s no real variation of it that works, where it’s a 6 plus two 10s. Because you miss the fundamental links in the triangle. The inverted triangle gives the 6 two close outlets in the 8.5s, but you look at our system and the 6 is often isolated because Fernandes and McTominay are walkabouts.

Eriksen isn’t the answer to a top class midfield, but his game is now naturally suited to playing deeper. He doesn’t have the legs to get back from a 10 position, so when he plays he naturally sits deeper. Which gives Mainoo a link. It works better by accident of attributes and limitations in the player, rather than by design. McTominay on the other hand has the engine to get back, so is constantly told to push up front, but it kills our build up play as there is no triangle in midfield, and inevitably there are occasions where he just doesn’t get back in time. It’s simply not possible to do.

You are indeed correct that I have little to no understanding of the game beyond the most basic aspects. But, I don't think it requires a genius level understanding of tactics to know that its preferable to be quick rather than slow.

And without trying to make any larger point about "how football works", because lets be honest I am way out of my league there and should leave that to the experts, I think its concerning that players are able to dribble away from Mainoo so easily, as they have done on a few occasions in his extremely young career so far, and how it looks like he's running in sand when chasing. Occasionally.

Other than that, he's brilliant! I love him and hope he does turn into our own Pirlo!

 

[RedRonaldo]

I'd already have him in the England team. When you look at our options, I don't think there's anyone better to compliment Rice and Bellingham.

England is really going to have the best midfield in decades with Rice, Mainoo and Bellingham. Perfect balance on paper.

 

[K Stand Knut]

I can’t see why any genuine United fan would come up with rubbish like that.

I would suggest that they think we are shit and will waste his talent, which is more than understandable.

 

[RuudTom83]

The England chat might be a bit premature but it would give me a reason to watch the international matches.

But who out of Rice and Mainoo would be the deepest?

 

[Remember the geese]

The England chat might be a bit premature but it would give me a reason to watch the international matches.

But who out of Rice and Mainoo would be the deepest?

Rice should be. Mainoo is a lot more talented in possession.

 

[saivet]

Can't say for sure you'll win it, but I think it makes sense in that Mainoo provides something the other England midfielders don't as a 3rd man with the nailed on starters in Bellingham and Rice, which is being comfortable on the ball and also does his bit defensively.

I think I'd see it as 2 spots for Mainoo, Henderson, Curtis Jones and Phillips

if you assume 6 attackers, 6 midfielders, 8 defenders and 3 keepers (and Trent is a 9th defender, maybe it also helps Palmer or Eze as an extra wide option unlike Maddison, Mount or Gallagher).

1) Rice
2) Bellingham

3) Alexander-Arnold or Ward-Prowse - Passing, set pieces/shooting
4) Gallagher, Maddison, Palmer, Eze or Mount - Backup for Bellingham and an option next to him when you're chasing a game or want a pure 4-1-2-3 type setup
5) Henderson, Curtis Jones or Mainoo - Composure
6) Phillips or Mainoo - Need a proper backup for Rice

So might come down to if Henderson can escape Saudi Arabia and if Phillips is seen as healthy enough.

Generally agreed, though I do wonder what Southgate's view of Curtis Jones is. I suspect that he's not considered as a Henderson/Phillips alternative. He's not as attack minded as someone like Maddison but he might be view in a similar way to JWP who likes to get forward a bit too much for that midfield role.

 

[TheReligion]

I would suggest that they think we are shit and will waste his talent, which is more than understandable.

Free Kobbie?

 

[Abraxas]

I thought he was excellent against Wigan.

Started off with a dodgy give away, but increasingly became fundamental to our game. Dropping into positions to get the ball, always available, some lovely turns and carries with the ball. Home grown De Jong.

 

[Fortitude]

The England chat might be a bit premature but it would give me a reason to watch the international matches.

But who out of Rice and Mainoo would be the deepest?

Rice would nominally sit in open play, but in terms of goal kicks or the immediate playing out from the back, Mainoo retreats behind him to be the first receiver and decide what to do with the ball with the field ahead of him. Once progressed, Mainoo remains there or thereabouts the #8 role and Rice sits deeper enabling him to play and also in place to sweep up behind him.

 

[Gordon S]

Surprised that some are worried that Casemiro would take his place. Kobbie is too good to not start games for us.
I would love to see them together, if we could have the real Casemiro back, the man we saw against Barcelona, we could potentially have one of the best cms in the league.
I have been a bit careful with similar labels since we labeled Schweinsteiger-Schneiderlin the best midfield in the league before the season even started. But, the kid is making me dream.

 

[lex talionis]

Surprised that some are worried that Casemiro would take his place. Kobbie is too good to not start games for us.
I would love to see them together, if we could have the real Casemiro back, the man we saw against Barcelona, we could potentially have one of the best cms in the league.
I have been a bit careful with similar labels since we labeled Schweinsteiger-Schneiderlin the best midfield in the league before the season even started. But, the kid is making me dream.

I share your enthusiasm over the boy but we should be cautious in how we use him. For me the obvious answer is benching McTominay and going with a Casemiro/Mainoo on a case by case basis depending on the opponent, but it might be premature to write in Mainoo as an automatic starter.

 

[madzo2007]

He's got a cool calm head on young shoulders.

Also seems so much smarter in his positioning and ball use than most of our other midfielders

 

[NoPace]

Generally agreed, though I do wonder what Southgate's view of Curtis Jones is. I suspect that he's not considered as a Henderson/Phillips alternative. He's not as attack minded as someone like Maddison but he might be view in a similar way to JWP who likes to get forward a bit too much for that midfield role.

I think the case for Jones is that he's far more composed on the ball than JWP (short passing, dribbling, also JWP is really one-footed) and a better defensive player than Maddison.

Last summer Jones and Angel Gomes were a really good double pivot for the U-21 team, as they were good enough in possession to avoid being pressed, so something like this probably looks pretty good to Southgate:

--------------Kane-----------------
LW------------------------------Saka
----------------Bellingham------
------Jones------------------------
--------------Rice------------------

for the same reasons it does with Mainoo in Jones' role. A young player who is comfortable deeper in midfield and really good on the ball and has Rice behind him defensively. Basically that job is just to be smooth on the ball and not a disaster in any one respect, which Mainoo and Jones, despite being younger, are probably better fits for than the older players.

I think Mainoo has the higher upside in the role because we've seen England struggle against the top midfields in the world and a Mainoo-Rice-Bellingham pairing seems to have it all, really, but I'd still prefer Jones reliability in possession over guys like Ward-Prowse, Gallagher, an aging Henderson, or trying to fit in a 2nd #10 like Maddison (who is the best player of the lot, but to pick him you'd have to be comfortable shackling Bellingham, which seems like a lot of risk for little upside, and with Kane dropping deep more and more, I'd probably want Bellingham focused on making runs and also shackling him to a #8 role brings back memories of Gerrard and Lampard being asked to think too much instead of being given the freedom to win matches as a #10).

 

[Ekeke]

Player Cam from the club, this is rare.

Our best central midfielder and for those that have said he cant play DM, he has some good anticipation in defensive situations in that performance

 

[dutchred]

What is also impressive is that he hardly ever plays the ball backwards or sideways, he's always looking to play it forwards

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Rice should be. Mainoo is a lot more talented in possession.

Wouldn't it make sense to put him deeper then?

 

[aeh1991]

He's made me liking to watch United games again, even when we lose. Just a joy to watch him.

 

[CasaStreets]

What is also impressive is that he hardly ever plays the ball backwards or sideways, he's always looking to play it forwards

Definitely a fan of his but I wouldn't go that far. Even a cursory glance at his 'all touches' videos from matches this season suggests he predominantly plays sideways. But that's part of the role he has with Casemiro out and him occasionally playing as the deepest of three. If Case comes back and plays deeper than Kobbie then maybe that will allow him a little more latitude for riskier forward passes.

 

[Lost bear]

Free Kobbie?

No! Let him liberate and transform our prison.

 

[Remember the geese]

Wouldn't it make sense to put him deeper then?

Yes, in the sense that he's very comfortable when pressed so is perfectly adept at collecting the ball from the keeper and progressing the play. However, I think he should be given license to roam like Frenkie De Jong does because he has a lot to offer in possession. I wouldn't want to restrict him, which is why I would like to see us pursue a dedicated DM to play alongside Mainoo.

 

[RedRonaldo]

The England chat might be a bit premature but it would give me a reason to watch the international matches.

But who out of Rice and Mainoo would be the deepest?

I thought playing Mainoo in next year Euro would be like playing Bellingham back in Euro 20.

 

[Bobski]

His best game for Utd was against Wigan, dominated, in the PL he has been much less of a force, still shown a lot of quality in flashes but physically he is not there yet and we shouldn't expect him to be. Looked very leggy at times during that game.

 

[harms]

He was quite poor by his standards. Obviously his performance wasn't helped by those around him though.

 

[lex talionis]

Very solid performance tonight. The team as a whole gave up near the end so it’s a bit harsh to demand more from the 18 year old.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

He was quite poor by his standards. Obviously his performance wasn't helped by those around him though.

This is not an excuse we use on other performance threads.

 

[Ekeke]

Found it hard to win the ball or build much when we had it. Still a better performance than Eriksen or McTom

 

[Superunknown]

Thought he looked better in the first half. The performance levels dropped off for the entire team in the second half, so I don't think he's at fault for that. He needed the experienced players to do more around him.

 

[Remember the geese]

We aren't using him right. He's no DM and Eriksen is no partner for him. He's playing with the handbrake on.

 

[Bobski]

This is not an excuse we use on other performance threads.

Unless they are youngsters or favourites then we blame their struggles on others.

 

[harms]

This is not an excuse we use on other performance threads.

Not really, that's a lazy oversimplification. It depends on the criticism that said player gets — some aspects are influenced massively by other players, some are completely dependent on that player's individual ability/application.

 

[Skills]

This is not an excuse we use on other performance threads.

And this is the problem with keeping a horrible manager around. Ten Hag era will have used up all/any goodwill that Mainoo would've had.

He'll be one of the toxic underperformers for our fanbase in the next managers era.

 

[Pronewbie]

Still young and learning. His first 5/10 game for us IMHO. His midfield partner Eriksen gets a 4/10. Thought McT did the best out of the trio in his cameo, which speaks volumes.

 

[Ekeke]

United and Spurs have the highest turnovers high up the pitch. 2nd half especially there wasnt much room in the middle and both teams went long and down the wings. Again he was by no means particularly good, he didnt win the ball like in previous matches and when pressed though he wasnt losing the ball he was only able to win throw ins and things like that.

 

[bond19821982]

Piss poor first half and average second half. Thank God kid is only 18 and we need to give him time. Not ready to start for us.

 

[Roboc7]

Not best performance but it’s part of learning curve, as ever he’s got little support.