37
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 27
- Goals
- 3
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 3
The drooling over his cameo against Brazil is a bit weird to say the least. There was literally zero press from Brazil on Englands midfield by the time he came on, and he played all safe passes. He did have one good turn in midfield at some point.
A little concerned with the willingness to push Mainoo into roles with huge responsibility at this stage. He doesn't need to be starting for England at the Euros, Yes part of the squad as a developmental aid but as a player already relied on to make a difference? Too much pressure and expectation too soon in my opinion. He has been incredibly promising for Utd with some flashes of brilliance but I don't think he is a 90 min player yet.
I was thinking of this post yesterday when watching Kobbie make his debut for England.
I think we can both agree that we now have enough evidence (not that I needed it) to say he's our most press resistant midfielder.
Sometimes one performance is all it takes.
Not denying that he's a really good player, and it's laughable to say Mainoo right now is better than him, but a player from West Ham, that hasn't won anything outside the conference league, isn't the hallmark of a title winner in my book
Alongside Rodri he's the best midfielder in the league. Absolutely a title winning player.
Indeed. I have no problem saying Gerrard was a title winning midfielder either, even if he never actually won a league title (hilariously).
Mainoo is a different kind of player but all the more valuable for it because they're harder to find.
Rice has been severely underrated amongst casual fans for years now, due to his nationality, the fact that he stayed at West Ham until 24, the lack of trophies, and the fact that on the ball he's not as aesthetically pleasing to watch, like a Foden for example.
He's a top 2-3 #6 in the world, at worst. For me, he's the best one.
His reputation will be very different once he wins a PL / CL title with Arsenal, because that's what's needed for casuals to accept a player or managers' true level: trophies.
With that said, Mainoo is one of the biggest teenage talents out there right now, and if all goes well, he will be valued at 100 million or more within 2-3 years.
Comparing them is pointless, though. One is a #6, capable playing in a single-pivot, and would be somewhat wasted at #8. The other is a monster left sided #8, who can play #6, but he's wasted there as well.
He's a top 2-3 #6 in the world, at worst. For me, he's the best one.
His reputation will be very different once he wins a PL / CL title with Arsenal, because that's what's needed for casuals to accept a player or managers' true level: trophies.
With that said, Mainoo is one of the biggest teenage talents out there right now, and if all goes well, he will be valued at 100 million or more within 2-3 years.
Comparing them is pointless, though. One is a #6, capable playing in a single-pivot, and would be somewhat wasted at #8. The other is a monster left sided #8, who can play #6, but he's wasted there as well.
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What type of midfielder compliments him the most?
For me Declan Rice compliments Mainoo really well. An anchor man that reads the game really well and is defensively sound is what Mainoo needs. Rice also links well in midfield which helps Mainoo’s game.
Yeah the hype cycle has gotten a bit too much here. I was on the bandwagon since the first friendly he played against Arsenal but it's getting a bit ridiculous at this point. They will tear him down the same way as soon as he has a couple of bad games.
Maybe it's from a selfish club based point of view that I don't want him thrust into major international tournament spotlight in a crucial role, I'm not sure about him being put forward for that at this stage.
I think he should be on the plane, certainly, but at the sharp end of a major tournament it seems soon to nail him down for a role next to Rice. That's a level of expectation higher than playing some games for a struggling United, where we're playing shite anyway. We've seen the after tournament come down affect a number of players, not helped by Southgates shit decisions - but still, it shows what can happen.
I would have been using Harvey Elliott more if I was Southgate. He has a bit more experience and is talented himself.
I think he should be on the plane, certainly, but at the sharp end of a major tournament it seems soon to nail him down for a role next to Rice. That's a level of expectation higher than playing some games for a struggling United, where we're playing shite anyway. We've seen the after tournament come down affect a number of players, not helped by Southgates shit decisions - but still, it shows what can happen.
I would have been using Harvey Elliott more if I was Southgate. He has a bit more experience and is talented himself.
Harvey Elliott's problem is that he's a little scrote. Klopp also plays him mostly on the wing which I think is a bit damning because, although he's decent there, he's not quick enough to ever be a top winger and I think it speaks to his positional responsibility/discipline more than the fact he's very technically capable.
I think England probably need a bit more scrote. They seem a bit naive at the business end of tournaments, to continue the analogy...they were a bit flaccid against Italy and France.
Agreed, I don't think he's an attacking player - regardless, a manager is supposed to take the talent he has and make it work, finding different positions as required. GS is not very creative.
Stop talking absolute shite
Look at the insane amount of time and space he was given and tell me where he did anything other than safe passes (and the nice turn in midfield!).Stop talking absolute shite
Would love to know what absolute shite I'm talking according to you, because there is absolutely zero impressive feats in this vid (again, apart from the nice turn, which I gave him credit for in my orginal post).
That is not to say this guy isn't a top talent, or he will be a very good player. But I'm almost left feeling a little underwhelmed when watching him, compared to the praise he gets on here. This game being the prime example of it.
Did you watch the game? Interesting that you haven't mentioned 1:37 in any of your posts. Granted, it's one action in that vid, but it's a progressive, through the lines.
It doesn't seem like you appreciate the needs of this England team. A player who values the ball highly and retains it for the team so others can work for position is the missing link. Mainoo came on and did exactly that for the entirety of his time on the pitch. His job, as the middle man in the centre of the pitch, is to knit things together and keep them ticking over - if you were expecting all action, all progressive performance, you've probably missed the memo on the requirements and needs England have because they last thing they need is another 'all action' guy who doesn't have nuance and patience for steady, progressive play. One of England's biggest weaknesses is not being able to take the sting out of a game or control the tempo, players like this are desperately needed, and if not Mainoo, you'd need someone else who can buy the rest of the team time, both to breathe and to formulate constructive plans rather than yolo stuff that falls to pieces the moment a side is strong enough to fight back.
Due to start tonight according to Hirst, best of luck to him.
Fair play, must have impressed I suppose. Hope he does well.
This seems to be a mistake a lot of non-United fans make when watching Mainoo. They hear the hype and then just see a very calm and tidy player so don't know where it's come from. They don't realise that this is why we rate him so highly, especially as he's doing it to a good level already and being still only 18. We've also seen enough of his attacking game (goal Vs Wolves, jinky runs Vs Liverpool) to know that this part of his game will start to shine through as he gets more experience.
I don't like comparing players, but the closest example I can think of is Modric. English football fans really didn't appreciate how good he was at first, they were obsessed with how few goals and assists he contributed at Spurs. He's gone on to rightly be recognised as one of the most press resistant and ball controlling CMs of his generation. He still doesn't score or directly assist many goals, but he's almost invaluable and quite unique in what he does offer.
There are plenty of all action Steven Gerrard clones out there, but the type of player Kobbie could become are so rare. I don't think we'll realise how lucky we are for a few years to come yet. I doubt England fans ever really will because they're mostly idiots who happily wasted Scholes' best years and didn't even utilise Carrick while he was around. Give them a Scotty Parker heart-on-his-sleeve type any day!
Yeah, if you're looking for the Action Man whose every action is some dramatic play, Mainoo is not for you. He'll kill and control a game before being expansive, and the few times he really pushes the play, it was because that's what the team needed and he showed he has that last gasp 'clutch' play to his game if needed, but forcing the play is the antithesis of what he does - everything comes in good, structured order, leading to the best openings and chances whilst exasperating the opposition that bit more and working on their ability to remain focused. That nuance is the brilliance and maturity to his game.
I think one of two things will happen with England: either he'll have what he does underplayed and underappreciated, or, he's going to become a single point failure of sorts that the team relies on to make things happen, and then he'll have the burden of carrying the team, as others through the middle have in the past (Gascoigne and Rooney in particular). The latter carries concern that @Brightonian raised, in that it's building the kid up to levels where you either become a superstar, or you carry an unfair amount of burden and blame on your shoulders. What I think will happen there is determinate of his moments and decisive actions. Like for us, his fantasy goal moments have propelled him along for a lot of people who probably don't appreciate the roundedness of his game, and the same might occur with England if he is part of a wondergoal or two - they'll be expectant of those moments every time rather than appreciative of the whole where such actions are the bonus rather than the crux and main thrust of the player.
He's such a natural at knitting the play that I do think it'll be impossible to prevent him being deferred to by others in the side who don't like or want that responsibility and will happily and willingly palm it off to an 18-year old given half the chance. Then again, the same happened to Pedri and he carried that load with ease, so we'll see what the future holds for Kobbie - I don't think his ability will let him down regardless.
I fully appreciate and understand that is what England and United need at this moment. I just think what he showed against Brazil does not warrant any significant praise, as he does get at this forum for that display, because I think it was nothing special. Also nothing special if you take into account the role that he shouldto play. The reason I say this, is because there was zero press or urgency from brazil to press Englands midfield, therefore Mainoo was in tons of space and did nothing else than recycle the ball to the nearest teammate (and there was the nice turn, in midfield).
It's not every day you see an 18 year old miss a chunk of the season through injury, come back and play his way into the national team within 20 games, no less in a position that can be the difference between success and failure.
Within that context, it does warrant the praise he's getting. His 20 minutes isn't the point, the mere fact he's even on the pitch is what is special!
Nothing special, but 20 passes out of 20, including some a couple progressions and a nice turn for an 18 year old 20 games into his professional career against Brazil is quite the remarkable rise.
Really interested to see how he does tonight
But context is vital here. He's 18, has less than 20 professional games under his belt, making his debut, against Brazil, with the whole nation watching.
To still be so calm and controlled and looking like a veteran under those circumstances is very abnormal in England - teenage debutants, no matter how good, are usually full of excitability and energy (even Owen and Rooney fit this mould), not calm, collected and aware of the full scope of the game going on around them. Mainoo flips that on its head and wants to be the heartbeat of what's going on making the game ebb and flow, not just running around like a lunatic or over expressive puppy.
The same reasons you are playing him down are the ones which are elevating his performance - keeping it calm and simple; maintaining control and being switched on spatially. He also had a nice dribble (which you cited) as well as displayed the capability to pass between the lines as the situation demanded. More was learned from playing that way, than it would have been if he was just bombing all over the place trying to play like Steven Gerrard. It may look more eye-catching to do the latter, but it also comes with more consequences and fallout, especially in the abandoning of position and loss of fundamentals in terms of shape and contingency.
Let me put it another way: it's the kind of debut that leads to a lot more minutes the next time out, or even a start. whilst that hair-trigger style can actually lead to a player being seen as somewhat of a liability or player you have a hard to force into the team because what he does is stepping on the toes of others in there to do that job. Mainoo has already created a very important niche for himself with that performance because, as simple as you make it sound, there aren't others who can come in and casually deliver that whole - maybe one part or the other, but not the lot.
Fair enough, that's a valid point
I also agree with this point.
And, in general, I fully understand how the hype cycle works. It is one of the fun things about football, seeing a young academy player emerge and doing well. We used to have a lot of that at Ajax, but as anything at Ajax, that went to crap over the last years. We only see defenders coming though these days, unfortunately
Mainoo will be the future United and England captain.
Mainoo is ticking a lot of boxes but let’s fecking chillout a bit.
I think the measure of Kobbie in the NT sphere is when, or if, he'll look uncomfortable and unable to play his natural, authentic game. The one game where I feel he looked like a boy amongst men was when we went to Newcastle and he was run down by Bruno G and the rest of the Newcastle midfield who had clearly worked on a plan for him. That's the one time he looked flustered and bothered to me, and even then, he had a decent enough game.
With the much slower tempo of international football, his young body will not often face that kind of physical mauling, if at all, and because of that, he's more likely to flourish quickly when given the space you mentioned, than not. He'll also get a lot more breathers and have better economy of movement in NT football so his growth is likely to be steadier and not at all reliant on physical strength and stamina.
If you keep watching, I'm certain he'll impress you more as he starts to more readily express himself. The priority with the debut was showing he belongs at this level. Keeping things smooth and seamless with little to no mistakes is heavenly for a pragmatist like Southgate, who is risk averse and nervous - the more he believes Mainoo can keep the opposition honest, whilst maintaining a safe position for England, the more he'll trust him, and there will come a point where Mainoo doesn't have to worry about not being the manager's cup of tea, which, during a trial of sorts, you have to be wholly mindful of. You have to show you are about it and fast, especially so close to the Euros and I'd say Mainoo did more towards booking a seat on the plane to the tournament than not with his cameo.
Looks like I’ll be checking out the England game so.
So now who do we buy that is similar to Rice that doesn’t cost 100mil?
Based on new Ratcliffe approach ("buy future Bellinghem") it should be somebody who most people haven't even heard the name of.
But we don't have people who can pull that off since our future CEO and director of football are both on gardening leave and unavailable to help us
Joao Gomes or Ederson would be sensible choices. FDJ is less defensively minded but could also be a great choice if he actually agreed to join us. If we qualify for Europe and Newcastle don't then I'd put in a cheeky bid for Guimaraes under the £100m release clause. There are no doubt other options too which I am missing and others can highlight.
No big club does that. He just gave one example, doesn't mean that will be our approach.
Our academy may already have one or two. Jack Fletcher and Amir Ibragimov are supremely talented midfielders that will break through over the next few years. IMO we need another established player like Joao Gomes, Ederson (From Atlanta) or Guimaraes to partner Mainoo and Mount/Bruno.
Everybody is saying, chill out! Why? He, along with Garnacho, are why I'm excited to watch us at the moment! He's calm. He tries to progress the ball better forward more than any other player on our team, the right way (instead of Bruno's Hollywood attempts) be it with a solid pass, a pass around the corner, a dribble, etc.; he's fun to watch. Gives me hope of better times to come then the last f+++++ 10 years of my life.
Please, repeat with me: we are NOT a big club vis-a-vis what we can spend, anymore. We don't have finances to act like a big club. There will be a long and hard road for us to get back to acting like a big club (money-wise). We are currently a bankrupt club that has been robbed and destroyed by decade plus of mismanagement by Glazers.
Eh?
Well that's an over dramatic heap of shite.
We can spend a lot of money.