[DWelbz19]

Everyone seems to think he's a Real talent, with world class potential.

But I see a bin bag full of shite.

What am I missing?

Considering this was one of your two other posts in this thread:

He looks PNE level to me.

I’m going to say — an extremely basic level of understanding of football.

 

[Remember the geese]

I’m going to say — an extremely basic level of understanding of football.

Clearly just an attention seeker.

 

[JJ12]

Everyone seems to think he's a Real talent, with world class potential.

But I see a bin bag full of shite.

What am I missing?

Fully functional Eyes?

 

[Joosep_K]

Left alone again and didnt had support. Not a good game when he has rubbish players around him

 

[Bwuk]

Flashes today. Couldn’t impact the game enough.

 

[Mike Smalling]

He was utterly alone in that midfield. Did some nice things in the first half, but he can't be expected to hold down the entire central area by himself.

 

[Godfather]

18 year old having to run our entire midfield. Way to go EtH

 

[klayton88]

Give the boy some time off.

 

[Jeppers7]

He’s the one shining start. Hopefully at the end of the season we will look to buy players that suit him.

 

[lex talionis]

Superb, but he can’t be expected to carry a club the way peak Schweinsteiger used to.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Thought he looked lost in the game, but can't really put too much blame given the atrocious set-up and style we have.

 

[bosnian_red]

Was by far our best outfield player. 2nd half quieter than first, but he has that class where his floor is so high and he'll be consistent.

Shame the system that he has to play in is a disaster, but that won't last long.

 

[Sylar]

Hopefully the plan for summer is to sort midfield first. That's the only way we can control games. Get him some good quality partners and fix that area. More so hope the planning has already started.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

Not very good but with Bruno and McTominay as midfield partners he was screwed so no complaints about the kid.

 

[Oranges038]

Not very good but with Bruno and McTominay as midfield partners he was screwed so no complaints about the kid.

Anyone left in there with those two is facing a game where they have to cover midfield alone.
This was like the Newcastle game, left on his own and hung out to dry.

 

[Red00012]

Needs to do better covering the whole of midfield like ETH expects him to do.

 

[E-mal]

Needs to do better covering the whole of midfield like ETH expects him to do.

Absolutely, needs to be super human

 

[midou]

I am not sure if prime Roy Keane can carry a midfield of Bruno and McTominay. Perhaps if we had Martinez playing form minute 1 and Amrabat as fake LB joining the midfield it could work.

 

[Fortitude]

Something that really stands out with Mainoo in this team is the gulf in technical capacity and competence between him and everyone orbiting him.

It is said that he is not doing enough off the ball work and is being too quiet with it being put down to age and inexperience why this is so. If you study these games, you will see that it's not that at all; there is a real fear and incapability of passing to him through lines or when he is even moderately surrounded. Our defenders and midfielders need a lot more space provided to even feel confident enough to thread anything through any lines, and more often than not, even with Mainoo decently open, they won't back themselves to hit the mark and will avoid passing to him entirely.

I know some wish to compare Mainoo to Scholes, but usually it's with regard to needing to have an expansive passing range like the ginger sage, but one of the most understated and underrated skills Scholes had was catering for the technical level of those around him. He had the games of everyone he played with downloaded. What kind of passes they give, what kind of passes they could deliver, how they would deliver them; how to weight passes in relation to who he is sending them to, but most importantly in relation to what I'm writing is that Scholes would move in anticipation for the player who was on the ball. The less passing competence they had, the more he would sprint 5-10 yards into the vastest amount of space he could find to make the pass to him as easy and simple as possible for them in accordance with their ability not his. Modric is a modern day master of this, and again, of all his skills and abilities, this is something that goes under the radar and is barely spoken about.

The above separates good movement from what might fairly be called all-time level movement; it's not something all midfielders have the time or ability to concern themselves with - being of a far higher technical level than those around you, but still catering for their game is really the pinnacle of midfield off the ball movement, for me. It's one thing to be amazing on the ball and when it comes to you, but to even give a second thought to those who are nowhere near that level is special - trying to prevent them from drowning or being embarrassed by understatedly aiding them continually is something that makes a players player and someone coaches use as a gold standard. That nuance is something that won't even be talked about in most plaudits for those kind of players, but will have them appreciated forever more by all those whose life they made so much easier than it could have been.

Along these lines, an extreme example of the opposite used to be Messi, who was renowned for playing walking football and demanding the ball at all times no matter where he was or how tightly marked. Not often did he aid the passer by coming short or making the bursts into space referred to above, and whilst that was fine for club, with Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta being able to thread passes through the eye of a needle all game, all season, it really made life harder than needs be at international level where the same walking style and requests for the ball in spaces those teammates couldn't hit led to turnovers and awkward disconnects. Messi worked on that side of his game in his elder years and became much more considerate to the less able, better catering to what they couldn't do rather than what they could.

Mainoo isn't Messi nor Scholes or Modric, but what he is in need of learning is that the ample movement into space he's currently executing, needs to be even larger, better, quicker and considerate of who is on the ball and their own competence with it. It's really paramount to get a midfield together where these micro actions are fewer and farther between because the technical acumen of the unit is already so high they can hit marks safely and accurately with the correct weight on the pass, but in the interim, working with the less able, those bursts into as open an area as possible are the difference between them taking on the attempt to pass to him or them instead continuing to bypass him because they can't back themselves to hit the mark.

The best solution is to get in players who this becomes a redundancy for, but for so long as we don't have those players, it's something Mainoo is going to have to take on board if he wants to optimise teammates. Right now, the guy is an island and we really need the technical efficiency of the team dragged up from the dredges - I think only Martinez in the whole defence and midfield can hit sharp short passes superfluously and continually and it's a real shame those two haven't had minutes together to put that to the test. We need CB's and CM's who can do this stuff in their sleep - in this day and age, it's not particularly special, yet we are nowhere to be seen on that kind of passing spectrum. We have a lot to sort out this summer, but for me, this is the biggest priority of all - the movement and space Mainoo provides should be ample enough and the fact it isn't, should tell those who are in charge of recruitment how much work they've got on their hands.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

He should literally be the template for ALL midfielders we sign going forward.

 

[AndySmith1990]

He should literally be the template for ALL midfielders we sign going forward.

Really. Not Bellingham, or Xavi, or Keane, or Scholes, or Modric, or any other current or former world class midfielder. But Mainoo?

Or do you mean we should only sign 18 year olds?

 

[E-mal]

Really. Not Bellingham, or Xavi, or Keane, or Scholes, or Modric, or any other current or former world class midfielder. But Mainoo?

Or do you mean we should only sign 18 year olds?

I am not the brightest but I think he meant in terms of technical quality, any midfielder not as comfortable on the ball like him should not be part of the future. Obviously if we get players like Bellingham, Xavi or Scholes, then even better. Again I am not that bright

 

[E-mal]

We are going to ruine him if we dont get the right players and manager around him

 

[King7Eric]

Something that really stands out with Mainoo in this team is the gulf in technical capacity and competence between him and everyone orbiting him.

It is said that he is not doing enough off the ball work and is being too quiet with it being put down to age and inexperience why this is so. If you study these games, you will see that it's not that at all; there is a real fear and incapability of passing to him through lines or when he is even moderately surrounded. Our defenders and midfielders need a lot more space provided to even feel confident enough to thread anything through any lines, and more often than not, even with Mainoo decently open, they won't back themselves to hit the mark and will avoid passing to him entirely.

I know some wish to compare Mainoo to Scholes, but usually it's with regard to needing to have an expansive passing range like the ginger sage, but one of the most understated and underrated skills Scholes had was catering for the technical level of those around him. He had the games of everyone he played with downloaded. What kind of passes they give, what kind of passes they could deliver, how they would deliver them; how to weight passes in relation to who he is sending them to, but most importantly in relation to what I'm writing is that Scholes would move in anticipation for the player who was on the ball. The less passing competence they had, the more he would sprint 5-10 yards into the vastest amount of space he could find to make the pass to him as easy and simple as possible for them in accordance with their ability not his. Modric is a modern day master of this, and again, of all his skills and abilities, this is something that goes under the radar and is barely spoken about.

The above separates good movement from what might fairly be called all-time level movement; it's not something all midfielders have the time or ability to concern themselves with - being of a far higher technical level than those around you, but still catering for their game is really the pinnacle of midfield off the ball movement, for me. It's one thing to be amazing on the ball and when it comes to you, but to even give a second thought to those who are nowhere near that level is special - trying to prevent them from drowning or being embarrassed by understatedly aiding them continually is something that makes a players player and someone coaches use as a gold standard. That nuance is something that won't even be talked about in most plaudits for those kind of players, but will have them appreciated forever more by all those whose life they made so much easier than it could have been.

Along these lines, an extreme example of the opposite used to be Messi, who was renowned for playing walking football and demanding the ball at all times no matter where he was or how tightly marked. Not often did he aid the passer by coming short or making the bursts into space referred to above, and whilst that was fine for club, with Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta being able to thread passes through the eye of a needle all game, all season, it really made life harder than needs be at international level where the same walking style and requests for the ball in spaces those teammates couldn't hit led to turnovers and awkward disconnects. Messi worked on that side of his game in his elder years and became much more considerate to the less able, better catering to what they couldn't do rather than what they could.

Mainoo isn't Messi nor Scholes or Modric, but what he is in need of learning is that the ample movement into space he's currently executing, needs to be even larger, better, quicker and considerate of who is on the ball and their own competence with it. It's really paramount to get a midfield together where these micro actions are fewer and farther between because the technical acumen of the unit is already so high they can hit marks safely and accurately with the correct weight on the pass, but in the interim, working with the less able, those bursts into as open an area as possible are the difference between them taking on the attempt to pass to him or them instead continuing to bypass him because they can't back themselves to hit the mark.

The best solution is to get in players who this becomes a redundancy for, but for so long as we don't have those players, it's something Mainoo is going to have to take on board if he wants to optimise teammates. Right now, the guy is an island and we really need the technical efficiency of the team dragged up from the dredges - I think only Martinez in the whole defence and midfield can hit sharp short passes superfluously and continually and it's a real shame those two haven't had minutes together to put that to the test. We need CB's and CM's who can do this stuff in their sleep - in this day and age, it's not particularly special, yet we are nowhere to be seen on that kind of passing spectrum. We have a lot to sort out this summer, but for me, this is the biggest priority of all - the movement and space Mainoo provides should be ample enough and the fact it isn't, should tell those who are in charge of recruitment how much work they've got on their hands.

Fantastic post. It's part of a long standing problem in our play of players not moving with respect to the guy in possession.

It's most evident when our GK or CBs have the ball. No one is able to cater to them by making movements that would make it easier to receive the ball. Yesterday, every time Flekken had the ball, you could see Brentford players create all kinds of angles to receive the ball. I don't know if it's coaching or lack of footballing intelligence but our players never seem to do that.

Mainoo needs to be developed into the kind of player who can position himself to receive the ball under all circumstances. He's brilliant at receiving the ball, but not necessarily at getting into positions to do so.

 

[Remember the geese]

Feel for him. Playing with Foden and Bellingham, his passes through the lines are going to be anticipated and controlled. His subtle runs off the ball to make space for himself in order to quickly receive it and to trigger attacks are spotted by top players. Our players can produce a performance worthy of that level of intelligence once in a blue moon. Must be night and day for the kid.

 

[Fortitude]

Fantastic post. It's part of a long standing problem in our play of players not moving with respect to the guy in possession.

It's most evident when our GK or CBs have the ball. No one is able to cater to them by making movements that would make it easier to receive the ball. Yesterday, every time Flekken had the ball, you could see Brentford players create all kinds of angles to receive the ball. I don't know if it's coaching or lack of footballing intelligence but our players never seem to do that.

Mainoo needs to be developed into the kind of player who can position himself to receive the ball under all circumstances. He's brilliant at receiving the ball, but not necessarily at getting into positions to do so.

Yeah that nuance, he needs a few sessions with Scholes in his ear because that's not about technical competence or even positional awareness (as he runs into space as it is), but in understanding that what he can do and how he can receive it is not something anyone else around him can - he's primed for footballers of his own calibre and I think there's a slight confusion for him at the moment in why he is being ignored despite being in what he perceives to be an adequate amount of space.

That short angle running and splitting off the ball is definitely coaching, but you can see we're completely lacking in that because literally none of our players do it, or even have a moment's thought to. We're the most static team in the league and collectively the off the ball movement is abysmal.

 

[Fortitude]

Feel for him. Playing with Foden and Bellingham, his passes through the lines are going to be anticipated and controlled. His subtle runs off the ball to make space for himself in order to quickly receive it and to trigger attacks are spotted by top players. Our players can produce a performance worthy of that level of intelligence once in a blue moon. Must be night and day for the kid.

I had given thought to that. Such a bizarre scenario, especially so when it used to be the other way round, and playing for England was a drop down in competence and quality for our guys. You can see with England it's more about teething problems than outright incompetence and I suspect with a few training sessions, they'll iron out most of the differences.

We need an absolutely massive level up in terms of technical competence, and I'd put that before brawn and all the rest of it, which we're decidedly lacking in too.

 

[DWelbz19]

We are going to ruine him if we dont get the right players and manager around him

It sounds a bit dramatic but you’re not really wrong — these are the most impressionable formative years of his career, if he’s spending it playing in a system where we don’t value ball circulation, or simply playing with senior professionals who only know vertical over the top passes, we will stifle the little things he’s good at.

It’s different to a Garnacho or a Hojlund type where what ultimately matters is end product no matter how you get there — there’s way more onus on little midfield automatisms and how you operate in the middle with and without the ball. If things stay as they are, Mainoo will basically just be learning things incorrectly.

 

[MonkeysMagic]

We can still hope that he will turn into the player he shows the signs to be, however under the current ruinous manager, his game is being affected already. If ETH were to stay here another season (bearing in mind nowhere else does mediocrity get rewarded like Utd!) he'd be well advised to move elsewhere.

 

[Remember the geese]

I had given thought to that. Such a bizarre scenario, especially so when it used to be the other way round, and playing for England was a drop down in competence and quality for our guys. You can see with England it's more about teething problems than outright incompetence and I suspect with a few training sessions, they'll iron out most of the differences.

We need an absolutely massive level up in terms of technical competence, and I'd put that before brawn and all the rest of it, which we're decidedly lacking in too.

Absolutely. The focus for a lot of fans is that we sign Onana in order to improve the level of physicality in our midfield. This isn't necessarily wrong, (though I have doubts about Onana), but we are massively lacking what you describe too. Technical competence and intelligence. A lack of understanding or appreciation for possession. It's at such a low level.

 

[E-mal]

It sounds a bit dramatic but you’re not really wrong — these are the most impressionable formative years of his career, if he’s spending it playing in a system where we don’t value ball circulation, or simply playing with senior professionals who only know vertical over the top passes, we will stifle the little things he’s good at.

It’s different to a Garnacho or a Hojlund type where what ultimately matters is end product no matter how you get there — there’s way more onus on little midfield automatisms and how you operate in the middle with and without the ball. If things stay as they are, Mainoo will basically just be learning things incorrectly.

Exactly my point

 

[G-manc]

He was bright for 20 minutes but I thought he looked knackered overall, which is understandable at his age with the international games and having to be the legs of the whole midfield.

He’ll defo be in the England squad which will mean no rest over the summer either - worrying for me if there’s no midfield recruitment.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Really. Not Bellingham, or Xavi, or Keane, or Scholes, or Modric, or any other current or former world class midfielder. But Mainoo?

Yes. Because Xavi, Keane and Scholes are retired, soon too is Modric a once in a life time type, like them. So is Bellingham whose kind cost upwards of 120m which we definetly don't have to spend.

But I'm certain unless the next recruiters and scouts we hire are poverty itself. I'm certain we can find at decent prices senior players (21-25) who are as comfortable on the ball, as comfortable under pressing pressure, constanntly moving to be availble for passes, plus have the positional sense and awareness in and out of possesion that 18 year old clearly has. For it's obvious players of his type of profile are the future.

We should be able to find at least 2. Even if say we split them into one stronger at defending and one stronger at deep lying play making.


We front office should be ashamed the likes of Rodri were found by City via good scouting whilst we have been making do buying old men like Casemiro, Matic, Scwheinstieger or over priced like Pogba to solve the exact same problems. Yet even our acadeny has been able to produce the exact type we need in those 8 years of wilderness. .....

Or do you mean we should only sign 18 year olds?

Nope

 

[ekestubbe]

We are going to ruine him if we dont get the right players and manager around him

So let's send him to Brighton on loan for a few seasons until EtH is gone?

 

[E-mal]

So let's send him to Brighton on loan for a few seasons until EtH is gone?

No, rather send him to your sunday league team because that is what I said

 

[Ekeke]

He had our 4th most touches (despite coming off on 79 mins) and won the ball a decent amount. An average display sure, but hard to expect anything more when McTom is playing next to you and has less touches than 79 mins of Rashford and makes 1 tackle. Thats how Mainoo did individually

The flip side is how effective were the opponents. Well Janelt and Jensen were all over us. Janelt made 5 tackles, 2 interceptions and won 3 aerial duels doing a lot of the dirty work and it allowed Jensen to use the ball with 6 key passes from his 37 passes. They also had Yarmoliuk in there as a 3rd player and he wasnt anywhere near as effective, but they were still outnumbering Mainoo and McTominay who barely bothered to try to do anything anyway.

Mainoo needed 1 if not 2 more able bodied players next to him to compete for the ball in order for us to get a foothold in the game. It was just him and the ghost of McTominay

 

[simplyared]

Yes we're all aware he's young bla bla but he needs a good bollocking imo. Yes he's an exceptional talent but (and it's a big but) he doesn't impact games. Feck how old he is with the tools he already has we need to see more. Time to go up a level. He's given the fans a glimpse of what he's capable of. He's set the bar high himself and he needs to deliver.

 

[Stadjer]

Yes we're all aware he's young bla bla but he needs a good bollocking imo. Yes he's an exceptional talent but (and it's a big but) he doesn't impact games. Feck how old he is with the tools he already has we need to see more. Time to go up a level. He's given the fans a glimpse of what he's capable of. He's set the bar high himself and he needs to deliver.

He doesnt score a lot of goals and doesnt assist much but his job isnt to score goals or assists. It also isnt really his job and even if it was his job to assist, that is hard with our strikers.

He had our 4th most touches (despite coming off on 79 mins) and won the ball a decent amount. An average display sure, but hard to expect anything more when McTom is playing next to you and has less touches than 79 mins of Rashford and makes 1 tackle. Thats how Mainoo did individually

4th most touches and winning the ball. He impacts the game quite a bit for a 18 year old. What more do you expect from him? To dominate the whole midfield by himself at 18 years old? Not even current Rodri would be able to do that and 18 year old Rodri certainly wouldnt able to do that. Xavi and Scholes wouldnt be able to that. So what exactly would you bollock him for and what would you demand him to do more off?

 

[simplyared]

He doesnt score a lot of goals and doesnt assist much but his job isnt to score goals or assists. It also isnt really his job and even if it was his job to assist, that is hard with our strikers.



4th most touches and winning the ball. He impacts the game quite a bit for a 18 year old. What more do you expect from him? To dominate the whole midfield by himself at 18 years old? Not even current Rodri would be able to do that and 18 year old Rodri certainly wouldnt able to do that. Xavi and Scholes wouldnt be able to that. So what exactly would you bollock him for and what would you demand him to do more off?

He gives me the impression he plays as if all the hype has gone to his head. Could be wrong of course. For me he needs to show far more urgency and comittment in his play. Feck his age he's already good enough. Just needs to put a sweat on and put his stamp on games. Bollocking is maybe too strong . A rocket up his arse then!

 

[Red in STL]

He gives me the impression he plays as if all the hype has gone to his head. Could be wrong of course. For me he needs to show far more urgency and comittment in his play. Feck his age he's already good enough. Just needs to put a sweat on and put his sta.p on games. Bollocking is maybe too strong . A rocket up his arse then!

The rocket needs to be up yours to stop al the crap coming out!