Apparently Ferdinand compared Mbappé the n°9 with Luis Ronaldo. I'm glad to see him perform upfront without the other two.
Kylian Mbappe | PSG
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
It really is the most suitable comparison. I'm not saying Mbappe has hit that level yet, but he's definitely from the same mold.
Tomorrow night for the full show, apparently.
Lukaku plus 200 million should do it.
And Real Madrid seemed close to get him when he departed Monaco.
He looks like being programmed to go there but we never know what the future will be and i’m curious to see how Madrid will evolve in the next few years.
I hoped he’ll stay in Paris with his Brazilian buddy, next year at least and why not another year in bonus.
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Not even close ^^
He isn't now but I think he will be. He will have a world class team around him for years to come and I see him raking up a lot of stats. Think of it like this, if PSG win the CL this season and he is their best player he will be the front runner for Ballon d'Or and I think most fans and journalists will have him at least on par with Neymar. I could be wrong, but there is something about him that gives off the consistent unplayable vibe I get watch Messi and less so Neymar.
I still think Neymar is a comfortably better player as of now. I suppose those who prefer Mbappe don't really watch PSG play all that much because it is so obvious to see. Neymar's biggest issue is his strained popularity while Mbappe is loved by almost everyone. However, when they really win the CL everybody will watch them play and granted that Neymar comes back in his previous form he'll be their standout player. People underestimate how good the Brazilian is. I believe he is to Mbappe what Messi was to him. There's simple that little gap in quality you can't overcome and as long as you play in the same team, there is not much room for discussion because people have the direct comparison and don't need to compare what if scenarios.
Also, I doubt that Mbappe's ceiling is as high as Neymar's. Neymar does things with a football nobody else currently can and his frightingly effective at it as well. He puts his skills to use and this is a very rare ability. I've only seen Ronaldo Nazario, Ronaldinho and Okocha capable of similar things. Mbappe has his lightning pace speaking for him but in the end Neymsr does not only reach comparable goal stats but simultaneously also influences the game way more through his dribblings and passes. Judging by his performances, I can't imagine Mbappe can do the same anytime in the future. With Neymar these things were there for everyone to see from the very beginning, the only question was if he would be able to make use of them. Mbappe however has never displayed dribbling and technical qualities on a similar level. Neymar was all about being talented and gifted while Mbappe is more about being extremely mature for his age and a unique athlete. Of course he is still world class in those areas (so this is criticism on a very high level) but not "once or twice in a generation" level of qualities.
I mean, how do you expect him to improve in order to enter the Neymar/Messi/Cristiano tier? When young players develop they usually enhance their decision making and calmness. You don't improve that much in technical areas after coming of age. Sure, you can improve the consistency of your touches etc. but I highly doubt that you can develop as much as it would be necessary for Mbappe to reach Neymar/Messi levels of technical ability.
And that's the reason why I don't think he'll surpass even one of them. Sure, there's always room for improvement and he'll learn to take even better decisions and make fewer mistakes but that's where it stops for me. The fact that he's that incredibly mature for his age also means that there's less room for improvement left for him. I mean, if you watch old footage of Ronaldo Nazario, Messi, Cristiano or Neymar at the same age, you see prodigies that maybe already have some end product but you also immediately make out flaws in their decisions. That's not the case for Mbappe - he usually chooses the best alternative available to him. He comes at his limits when the space gets tight or he needs to create things on his own and those issues are related to areas in which I can't believe he can improve as much as it would be required to become as good as Neymar.
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That wasn't a fair deal. Lukaku and 180 million then.
I agree with this analysis. If you watch both when they play on the same pitch - it's pretty evident that Neymar is a level above (even though Mbappe is very good for his age). Neymar pulls the strings in the PSG frontline. The whole attacking phase flows through him where he either utilises his audacious dribbling skills to bamboozle defenders or his razor sharp, incisive passing to open up defences. He's also an excellent finisher too if needed. Mbappe's role is to usually just add the finishing touch to what Neymar has created. From what I've seen from him, he doesn't look like he's capable of influencing the game in the way a Messi or Neymar can in terms of playmaking and dribbling. Maybe he can try and develop along the lines of his idol C.Ronaldo. His skill-set is more similar to that than Messi or Neymar although he'd have to add a few more things to his arsenal to be complete like Ronaldo.
Mbappé is a striker, Neymar a playmaker (with very good finishing abilities). They just have a different role on the pitch. Overall, Neymar is a far better football player than Mbappé but you can't really compare both players. CR7 doesn't have that much influence on the game for exemple, until he scores. If you want to compare Mbappé to someone, it can't be Messi or Neymar, it has to be with other real strikers like R9, CR7 etc.
Exactly, it's strange to claim that people don't watch PSG and then compare two players that have no business being compared in terms of tools or roles, also Mbappé has mainly played in his worst position, the right side is where you will reduce most of his attributes and funnily enough it's because he has a very good technique and his comfortable everywhere including in tight space that he can play anywhere and still impact the game.
I loathe the comparisons to Ronaldo (and shame on Rio if he sid that) as all they do is set Mbappe up for a fall. The only comparables they have is insane speed and being lethal for their age range, but then, why isn't Mbappe being compared to pre-injury Owen, which is a far more apt likeness in terms of technique and talent.
Outside of kick and rush, you don't see Mbappe (nor pre-injury Owen) dribbling through swathes of players and that's only the first distinction away from Ronaldo.
I am curious to see where Mbappe's ability takes him, but can't help a gnash of the teeth every time the Ronaldo comparison is made.
Outside of kick and rush, you don't see Mbappe (nor pre-injury Owen) dribbling through swathes of players and that's only the first distinction away from Ronaldo.
I am curious to see where Mbappe's ability takes him, but can't help a gnash of the teeth every time the Ronaldo comparison is made.
Because this part isn't correct. I'm not sure about the comparison with Ronaldo from a stylistic standpoint but he has nothing to do with Owen, Mbappé is a pretty good dribbler that will very often use tricks, in terms of style he is closer to an older Cristiano Ronaldo.
What has Neymar done to be in the same tier as Messi?
Pretty good, above average, moderate.. whatever you want to put there, it's disingenuous to put him anywhere near Ronaldo (Luiz btw) because one is one of the greatest dribblers of all time; on any scale for technique, young Owen and Mbappe have [far] more in common than anything to do with Ronaldo, which is why it's a complete hiding to nothing, which only sets Mbappe up to fail, unfairly.
I think Mbappe has the kind of pace and acceleration that affords him space to dribble into as defenders have no idea what to do for the best against it. Mbappe also has clever movement and spatial awareness so his dribbling isn't isolated or scrutinised often because he rarely uses it as a go-to, but when he does, in isolation, it's not top percentile stuff just adequate supplementation to everything else he has in terms of attributes.
Just because a players younger doesnt make them better. And kane is no slouch when it comes to technical ability either.
The way they play are actually quite similar mbappes pace being the obvious difference.
There is not much between the two other than Kanes unlucky to be born English and not French.
Which is why I didn't compare him to Ronaldo. Your comparison with Owen is simply as bad, they don't have the same game. As for the last part that's why I compare his game to Cristiano Ronaldo who doesn't use dribbles as a primary tool and hasn't been a top dribbler after gaining a lot of muscle and power, the reality is that they are still both pretty good dribblers compared to other players but that's not their game. And since I don't want you to meltdown, Cristiano is better in every aspects of the game, I'm not comparing their level but their approach to the game.
I've watched PSG plenty and I've basically acknowledged Neymar is currently better. Regardless, you are making a lot of assumptions. You assume Neymar will play better than Mbappe if they win the Champions league. You assume Mbappe can't player better than Neymar on the same team. You assume there is an artificial cap on Mbappe's decision making (as if real life is Football manager). Unless you have a crystal ball this is nothing but conjecture.
Secondly, technical ability doesn't make player A better than player B. Your mention of JJ Okocha proves that. Let's be honest, the only things that really matter in terms of perceived greatness is production, trophies, and consistency, and Mbappe has a great chance of hitting all of these marks. Mbappe just needs to be more consistent and produce at a higher rate than Neymar and that, given his team and talent, is very doable. Taking into account his natural ability, production, achievements and age it is absolutely absurd to say he doesn't have a good chance to be considered as good a Neymar. We are talking about a player being compared to Brazilian Ronaldo not Alan Shearer FFS.
And I disagree with your assessment of young Messi's decision making. This one of the very things he was lauded for as a young player in addition to his technical ability. Very weird comment.
Messi is obviously the better player, but Neymar is as talented. Messi is God. We get it.What has Neymar done to be in the same tier as Messi?
Erm, we were talking about who should win the Ballon D'Or if PSG win the CL. Of course you need to compare the two to conclude that. It is not only a common but also a logical thing to do.
Thing is, you didn't even disagree with anything I said. Yes, he has a very good technique and I didn't deny that. I said he isn't even close to Neymar levels of quality on the ball.
However, I disagree that the right side reduces most of his attributes. Yes, he is probably better as a pure striker but staying out wide and using his pace to beat opponents definitely helps him. You can't deny that Mbappe is a player whose dribbling is heavily reliant on his crazy, crazy speed. He's good but not absolutely special when it comes to beating two or three players in close space, an area in which Neymar excels at, so it is easier for him to play out wide where he can simply outrun almost everybody.
So as a conclusion, in terms of pace and finishing (Mbappe's biggest strengthes) Neymar is a lot closer to Mbappe than Mbappe is in Neymar's (dribbling, passing, playmaking). That's why they are playing different roles, yes, but it's also why Neymar puts up similar goal and assist numbers while being far more involved in general.
1) Never said the younger player is better. Not sure where you got that from.
2) Mbappe and Kane are not similar, except that they are both primarily strikers.
3) Kane doesn't have the dribbling ability of Mbappe this is for certain.
Of course there is a cap on Mbappe's decision making since once you learned to choose the best alternative in almost any situation, that's where it stops. And if a player already makes the right decisions in roughly 80% of the time at an extremely young age, then it is only logical that he has less room for improvement since he a human won't develop his technical or motoric abilities as much after he's reached a certain age.
And no, technical ability doesn't automatically make player A better than player B. But technical ability combined with physical ability is what makes up the potential of a player and the Neymar package is simply better than the Mbappe one IMO. However, as I wrote before how good you ultimately become depends on how good you are at utilizing these abilities and Neymar is putting them to use like few others could. I didn't mention Okocha because he was that good by the way, just for completion. He's nowhere near those other three of course (and much worse than Mbappe) but when talking about beating opponents through skills on the ball, you have to name him.
Neymar by the way has a record of almost one goal per game for PSG and an assist in every second, by the way, and this as the team's playmaker. And Neymar has a lot more impact for his team that can't be tracked in goals or assists. So, "very doable" is a slight exaggeration, don't you think?
The player that should win is the one that was the better player during the season.
As for the second paragraph that's simply wrong and the fact that you only mentioned pace as a perk demonstrates that. Mbappé's best attributes are positioning, movement and finishing, it's not his pace who is a very nice thing to have but isn't the base of his game. When you push him wide you take away most of the opportunities that logically comes to Cavani, you take away the small movements, runs and counter runs that he does all the time when in a striking role but a lot less when wide mainly due to opportunity.
That's one of the issue with the way people judge Mbappé, because people have realized how quick he is they started to overlook what makes him actually special.
Sorry, but you are pulling this out of your arse. Messi was considered a very good decision maker for his age, yet he still improved. As good as Mbappe is his decision making can certainly improve and bolded is subjective and grossly inaccurate (given the amount of options available to a player at any given time even a "good" decision can be substituted for a "better" decision)
Again not sure why you are only focusing on skills. The JJ Okocha reference was silly as he isn't in the same stratosphere as anyone of the players you mention. All it did was show YOU place an a high importance on technical ability when rating players. Also Mbappe is no slouch technically (I'm not sure what you watching) even though he is no Neymar. And how the hell does he not have a good combination of technical and physical ability? Looks like you are mistaking Mbappe for Rashford.
I don't understand the bolded but regardless you're being intellectually dishonest. You can't cite his stats and then claim his play transcends stats. You're basically creating a built in excuse in case Mbappe surpasses his production. Great attackers are judged heavily on their production. This is how it is and how it always will be for the foreseeable future. Just b/c it doesn't fit into your narrative it doesn't make it less so.
So yes, Mbappe reaching Neymar (we are talking about Neymar not even Messi) is "very doable" given what we have seen so far.
Sorry buddy, but you are purposely misunderstanding the points I make and taking this very personal. Not sure if this discussion makes sense then. However, a last try:
Messi's numbers sky rocketed after Guardiola took over. He was raw talent but what he was actually capable of only revealed itself some years after that. Mbappe is much, much better than Messi was when it comes to producing end results with the abilities he has. A lot more mature than Messi at the same age but with less potential.
I just said that Okocha isn't even close to the other three players or Mbappe, so you basically just repeated what I said in order to contradict something I didn't say or mean. There are many players who I rate very highly but Okocha is non of them, trust me on that one.
I also never said that Mbappe is a slouch technically, I always said he is good technically but not once or twice in a generation material like Neymar and Messi are. Again you are pretending I said something which I didn't even indicate (in fact I literally said the opposite) and use this to attack me.
And of course I can cite his stats to show that he has similar or at this point even better end product than Mbappe while also pointing out that he generally contributes more through passes and dribbles. That's not being intellectually dishonest, that's simply me pointing out that he matches his numbers while simultaneously doing other tasks for the team Mbappe isn't capable of.
Im referring to the point that you made where you said Mbappes technical ability hasn't been seen in a player this young since Ronaldo and Messi.
You are basically giving him extra credit compared to Kane because of his age
And they are very similar players if you look at how they play and their attributes.
Take out the obvious speed advantage Mbappe has both are strikers that like to roam and drop deep.
Both are strikers that are very good dribblers but fall short of being the best.
Both have very good technical ability and can hold their own against the best but dont rely on it. Their main attributes are their movement and goal scoring prowess.
Mbappe is not some messi,Robben type of dribbler.
I don't think that Luis Ronaldo is a bad comparison. You just have to keep in mind that it's 70% of Ronaldo and not 100% of him. I'd say that stylistically they are quite similar — definitely more so than Mbappe and Owen, for example.
No I'm not. You literally omitted the other two qualifiers I mentioned.
"his combination of physical attributes, intelligence, AND technical ability hasn't been seen in a player this young since Ronaldo and Messi"
Please don't misrepresent what I said. If makes you quit this pedantic back and forth I will just say Mbappe's combination of physical attributes, intelligence, and technical ability are better than that of Kane.
1) Why on earth would you take away one of his best attributes? Non-sensical.
2) He doesn't have to be a Messi or Robben type of dribbler to be better than Kane. Not sure what point you are trying to make there. He's clearly better and last time I checked that's part of his technical ability.
Messi and Robben aren't the same type of dribbler. Robben is fast and powerful dribbler that basically uses the same moves over and over while Messi is all about quick changes of direction and ability to control and move the ball in tight space. If anything Mbappé and Robben are the same type of dribblers even though one is a winger and the other is a striker.
I'm not making anything personal. That is your perception that I cannot control.
1) I merely pointed out the stats you were making up (80% of the time he makes the right decision) and putting an artificial cap on his decision making (I already explained why).
2) I still don't understand what your JJ Okocha point was supposed to illustrate. Sure Mbappe doesn't have his technically ability but what does it matter if he is clearly better than him? They are probably many other players you can mention that are better technically than Mbappe but if they aren't better the point is moot.
On a per minute basis, it looks like Mbappe has a "better" end product.
https://www.whoscored.com/Players/300713/Show/Kylian-Mbappe
https://www.whoscored.com/Players/50835/Show/Neymar
None of this matters b/c Mbappe and Neymar are very different players. Mbappe is more direct but it doesn't mean he is less effective (which is what you are trying to insinuate).
Well pace + finishing is the marker being used and outside of that there's no commonality between the 3 of them, but at least the ballpark is the same with Owen rather than fields over with Ronaldo.
I think even Cristiano is a stretch because his runs were outright difficult to stop, which Mbappe straight negates with incomparable pace. Perhaps I'm doing him a disservice here, but dynamic dribbling isn't something I've seen him do much of or think he's top percentile at whereas in C.Ronaldo's niche, he was top percentile at getting from A to B with his style of dribbling even if it wasn't conventionally special.
Haha don't worry, I'm not about to blow a gasket and I am aware I seem to drop by this thread, do the kid down then leave again, but that's a by-product of who he's being compared to rather than me having anything against him.
I'm talking about the old version of Cristiano while you seem to talk about the young version. I agree with you on the young version but that's a totally different player to the one we have seen in the last 5 to 6 years and it's worth remembering that he is Mbappé's idol, he is clearly modelling his game from him. The reason I don't fully agree with the comparison with the brazilian is because the latter was a ball dominant player, while Mbappé has sometimes showed that he can do some of the things Ronaldo did, he is more about off the ball movement and efficiency.
The reality with Mbappé is that he is his own version, people have compared him to Henry, Ronaldo, Cristiano, now you compare him to Owen and the fact is that his range of tools is so large that no one is actually able to make a perfect comparison and it's a pointless exercise anyway. At 20 years old, he is matching the best players in terms of production and that's why he deserves to not be loosely compared to anyone.
There's no question he's got a right to be bracketed highly, and I agree with some of what you're saying. My objection is pretty distinct and I know I've made it in here before, apart from that, I really do look forward to seeing how his career pans out.
Btw, the Owen comparison wasn't to slight either Mbappe or Owen, lest it's forgotten pre-injury Owen was a lethal player.
Owen was lethal but not in Mbappes class
I realize that you weren't criticizing him with that comparison since Owen was a brilliant player and could have been an all time great. My disagreement is due to the fact that they are not the same type of player, Mbappé is a modern player, a sort of hybrid that is as lethal as someone like Owen but also more creative. If you simply look at CL stats Mbappé has more goals and three times more assists than Owen in almost the same amount of minutes, he can actually play wide at a high level even though he is far better through the middle too.
To me it's like likening Van Nistelrooy and Van Persie.
I don't think this guy is as good as people make out to be. yes, he's young and fast, but he doesn't strike me as a potential great. His one vs one dribbling is gash and he misses so many sitters for my liking, and yes, he's overpriced.