Kylian Mbappe | PSG

SCP said:
Well, more one post about Mbappé. :D

I am going to repeat what I said 8 or 9 months ago, I had the chance to see Mbappé for the first time in a Euro under 19 semifinal vs Portugal, at the time he was 17, don't remember any player having the same impact with his age since Neymar, Messi or Cristiano, the only one who was better with 17 was Ronaldo Fenómeno from Brazil.
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That was the first time I saw him play too, we had a very good team but he completely tore us apart and it was obvious how special he was. They won 3-1, he scored 2 and assisted the other.
 
Scarecrow said:
Quite a few "world class" comments in there, as well. 13-20 pages is peak Mbappe hype. Pretty sure that's where you'd find the root of this "mysterious" dislike you're seeing now.
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Where does he rank among attacking player right now? Top 15/20? Don't think that's world class.
 
Schneckerl said:
Where does he rank among attacking player right now? Top 15/20? Don't think that's world class.
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I named a list of strikers, including Cavani and one guy laughed at me for even suggesting Cavani. Which is odd because Cavani is a better player at the moment. Obviously Mbappe is a great talent but he is not on Cavani level yet.
 
If France don't win an international tournament with the likes of Martial, Coman, Mbappe, Dembele, Pogba etc, they should be ashamed of themselves.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
I named a list of strikers, including Cavani and one guy laughed at me for even suggesting Cavani. Which is odd because Cavani is a better player at the moment. Obviously Mbappe is a great talent but he is not on Cavani level yet.
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Cavani has been playing really well this season. I remember you naming Lacazette though....
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Oh yeah I seen the joke, but some people will actually think he is top 10 in the world, go back 10 pages in this thread and you can see.
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So you are so wound up that anything that isn't a criticism of Mbappé will be extrapolated and used to advance your point? You are as ridiculous as the people who can't control their praises.
 
Schneckerl said:
Cavani has been playing really well this season. I remember you naming Lacazette though....
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Lacazette was probably a mistake but even Sir Alex made mistakes. Lacazette was just as good as Mbappe in France though. Whilst playing for an inferior team to PSG and Monaco.

JPRouve said:
So you are so wound up that anything that isn't a criticism of Mbappé will be extrapolated and used to advance your point? You are as ridiculous as the people who can't control their praises.
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I am not wound up at the praise of him no. It is the over rating of players that bugs me.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Lacazette was probably a mistake but even Sir Alex made mistakes. Lacazette was just as good as Mbappe in France though. Whilst playing for an inferior team to PSG and Monaco.
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We have french posters who follow the ligue1. Was lacazette as good as Mbappé last season?
 
giorno said:
Thanks. Who else overall?
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All positions? I would say Lemar and Bernardo Silva then you have a group made of Lacazette, Rabiot, Draxler, Glik, Mendy, Fabinho or Thauvin.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
2016/17 season stats

Lacazette 45 apps, 37 goals, 5 assists.

Mbappe 44 apps, 26 goals, 14 assists.

Lacazette contributed to 2 more goals in one more game. So it is closer between the two last season than you guys are suggesting.
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And you're looking at stats without any context whatsoever.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
2016/17 season stats

Lacazette 45 apps, 37 goals, 5 assists.

Mbappe 44 apps, 26 goals, 14 assists.

Lacazette contributed to 2 more goals in one more game. So it is closer between the two last season than you guys are suggesting.
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Penalties

Lacazette: 11

Mbappe: 0

Not to mention Mbappe came off the bench in a lot of those appearances. Mbappe played 2635 minutes, Lacazette played 3482
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
2016/17 season stats

Lacazette 45 apps, 37 goals, 5 assists.

Mbappe 44 apps, 26 goals, 14 assists.

Lacazette contributed to 2 more goals in one more game. So it is closer between the two last season than you guys are suggesting.
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There is around 1000 minutes between them and Lacazette scored around 10 penalties.
 
I don't agree with completely removing penalties when comparing goal scoring stats. Its strange to me this habit of just subtracting penalties from the total and acting like they don't exist when comparing players.

Reality is its still a goal and taking penalties is an extremely important clutch ability. Penalties are underrated by some contemporary fans.

I think Roberto Baggio might respect penalties. Ozil has also missed several crucial penalties for Arsenal notably one against Bayern in CL knockout that could have completely changed the course of the match. Alexis Sanchez is something like 2 for 5 for penalties. So personally I value Lacazette's penalty goals very high. They are not a given despite some people's belief.

I can understand why some might rate an open play goal more if and only if the player did not create the penalty as well. But to disregard penalties completely is just nonsense. Maybe a compromise could be just to rate them as .5 of a goal unless the player taking the penalty created it in which case it is 1 for 1.
 
@oneniltothearsenal no, they're discounting penalties because he's using stats alone to judge two players he didn't actually watch and claim they were equally good

Even statistically, Mbappé was the second best in europe in terms of goal+assist/minutes. Only a certain guy called Messi was better...
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
I don't agree with completely removing penalties when comparing goal scoring stats. Its strange to me this habit of just subtracting penalties from the total and acting like they don't exist when comparing players.

Reality is its still a goal and taking penalties is an extremely important clutch ability. Penalties are underrated by some contemporary fans.

I think Roberto Baggio might respect penalties. Ozil has also missed several crucial penalties for Arsenal notably one against Bayern in CL knockout that could have completely changed the course of the match. Alexis Sanchez is something like 2 for 5 for penalties. So personally I value Lacazette's penalty goals very high. They are not a given despite some people's belief.

I can understand why some might rate an open play goal more if and only if the player did not create the penalty as well. But to disregard penalties completely is just nonsense. Maybe a compromise could be just to rate them as .5 of a goal unless the player taking the penalty created it in which case it is 1 for 1.
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What you say is only true if both players are penalty takers, otherwise it makes no sense in a comparison. That's like comparing the savings percentage of a striker and a goalkeeper.
 
giorno said:
@oneniltothearsenal no, they're discounting penalties because he's using stats alone to judge two players he didn't actually watch and claim they were equally good

Even statistically, Mbappé was the second best in europe in terms of goal+assist/minutes. Only a certain guy called Messi was better...
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Well I absolutely agree Mbappe is the superior player.
 
JPRouve said:
What you say is only true if both players are penalty takers, otherwise it makes no sense in a comparison. That's like comparing the savings percentage of a striker and a goalkeeper.
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I disagree. Teams tend to select the most clutch player as the penalty taker. If Lacazette is selected and someone else isn't thats not fair to hold against Lacazette either. You are removing a positive quality of his just because someone else doesn't have it.

Its like saying we should remove headers when comparing Romario goals with Hugo Sanchez because Romario doesn't head the ball much.

Anyway we can agree to disagree because I just won't agree with your point of view
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
I disagree. Teams tend to select the most clutch player as the penalty taker. If Lacazette is selected and someone else isn't thats not fair to hold against Lacazette either. You are removing a positive quality of his just because someone else doesn't have it.

Its like saying we should remove headers when comparing Romario goals with Hugo Sanchez because Romario doesn't head the ball much.

Anyway we can agree to disagree because I just won't agree with your point of view
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And it's not fair to hold Fabinho and Falcao against Mbappé either. The new player won't take penalties away from two excellent penalty takers.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Its like saying we should remove headers when comparing Romario goals with Hugo Sanchez because Romario doesn't head the ball much.
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Not really. A replacment level player doesn't have 0% PK success rate, while this could be true for headers.


In this case it's worth mentioning to give more context, as the poster clearly gave none and likely didn't even watch those players.
You don't have to assume that people just substract the PK number from his overall goals.
 
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JPRouve said:
And it's not fair to hold Fabinho and Falcao against Mbappé either. The new player won't take penalties away from two excellent penalty takers.
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I am not holding that against Mbappe in any way whatsoever so your point is moot. And I would agree no stats can be massaged to put Lacazette on the same or close to the same level as Mbappe.

I just respond here to general point as its something I see come up a lot recently

For instance, I would hold it against Ozil and Alexis Sanchez because neither of them showed the clutch and clinical ability to hold the role of team penalty taker. And in general its just not accurate to wantonly subtract penalties from goals totals.

If one player is not clutch/clinical enough to hold the role of their team penalty taker then you can't just subtract a player who IS that clutch and clinical penalty goals.

And also I don't see any of the subtractors actually looking up the goals to even see who created the penalty to begin with which renders the entire criticism against penalties useless.
 
Point being you don't need to be a great striker or goalscorer to be a great penalty taker. Indeed, you don't even need to be a great, or even a good player, to be a great penalty taker. Just ask Mario Balotelli
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
I disagree. Teams tend to select the most clutch player as the penalty taker. If Lacazette is selected and someone else isn't thats not fair to hold against Lacazette either. You are removing a positive quality of his just because someone else doesn't have it.

Its like saying we should remove headers when comparing Romario goals with Hugo Sanchez because Romario doesn't head the ball much.

Anyway we can agree to disagree because I just won't agree with your point of view
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Sorry but that doesn't make any sense, everyone is free to score goals whichever way they want except for pens and freekicks that you can't score if you don't get to take them. That's why the only way to compare is not to count them. At least FKs are very difficult while everyone can score 60%+ pens.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
I am not holding that against Mbappe in any way whatsoever so your point is moot. And I would agree no stats can be massaged to put Lacazette on the same or close to the same level as Mbappe.

I just respond here to general point as its something I see come up a lot recently

For instance, I would hold it against Ozil and Alexis Sanchez because neither of them showed the clutch and clinical ability to hold the role of team penalty taker. And in general its just not accurate to wantonly subtract penalties from goals totals.

If one player is not clutch/clinical enough to hold the role of their team penalty taker then you can't just subtract a player who IS that clutch and clinical penalty goals.

And also I don't see any of the subtractors actually looking up the goals to even see who created the penalty to begin with which renders the entire criticism against penalties useless.
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No one criticized penalties or substracted them here, it was just mentioned for context. Mbappé wasn't the penalty taker while Lacazette was.

Edit: Also just to show why penalties should be mitigated, Fabinho is Monaco's penalty taker but last year Jardim wanted to boost Falcao's moral so he gave him the role when Fabinho had a perfect record(which he lost later).
 
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BBRBB said:
Sorry but that doesn't make any sense, everyone is free to score goals whichever way they want except for pens and freekicks that you can't score if you don't get to take them. That's why the only way to compare is not to count them. At least FKs are very difficult while everyone can score 60%+ pens.
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Except they can't which is why I pointed out Ozil and Alexis both of which are under 45% on penalties and both missed absolutely crucial ones.
 
giorno said:
Point being you don't need to be a great striker or goalscorer to be a great penalty taker. Indeed, you don't even need to be a great, or even a good player, to be a great penalty taker. Just ask Mario Balotelli
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While conversely even great players can be shite penalty takers and cost their team important matches. It is a skill set that is valuable is my point and shouldn't just be discarded.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Except they can't which is why I pointed out Ozil and Alexis both of which are under 45% on penalties and both missed absolutely crucial ones.
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Because of a small sample, even I could score 60%. By the way Lacazette doesn't score every penalty and missed a few crucial ones.
 
BBRBB said:
Because of a small sample, even I could score 60%. By the way Lacazette doesn't score every penalty and missed a few crucial ones.
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Sorry can't take you seriously after that. I don't believe at all you could score 60% of penalties at the Premier League level let alone CL level of pressure.

That's like the people who say things like "Even I could win the CL with the Barca team Pep had". No, they really couldn't have.

EDIT: Unless you are former professional player. I have no idea who you are so if you happen to be Rai or George Weah then I would agree you could score at that rate ;)
 
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The holy trinity 68 said:
I named a list of strikers, including Cavani and one guy laughed at me for even suggesting Cavani. Which is odd because Cavani is a better player at the moment. Obviously Mbappe is a great talent but he is not on Cavani level yet.
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Such things are what show how badly Mbappe is overrated. If people can laugh at suggestions that Cavani is the better player than you know the kid is ridiculously overhyped. OHBAR(Overhyped beyond any reason).
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Sorry can't take you seriously after that. I don't believe at all you could score 60% of penalties at the Premier League level let alone CL level of pressure.

That's like the people who say things like "Even I could win the CL with the Barca team Pep had". No, they really couldn't have.
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Whatever. Have a good day.
 
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