La Liga/Serie A/BuLi Draft - SF Gio vs Joga/Balu

Who will win with player peaks in the specified leagues (not career peaks)?


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Skizzo

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Please remember that players should only be judged by their performances in their assigned leagues for this draft (not career peak)

vs


TEAM GIO ------------------------VS---------------------TEAM JOGA/BALU
 

Skizzo

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TEAM GIO WRITE UP

Our 4-3-3 marries defensive strength with a creative and swashbuckling attack. The central defensive axis is rock solid harnessing the raw aggression and grizzle of Carles Puyol with the all-roundedness of one of the Bundesliga's greatest ever defenders in Rune Bratseth. Behind them is Jose Luis Chilavert whose shot-stopping ability, smoothness on the ball, and sweeper-keeping complement the pair in front of him. The axis is flanked by Stefan Turbo Reuter on the right, a rapid and tidy defender but also a relentless overlapper, and Puyol's team-mate Eric Abidal who was a quick and physically imposing left-back and offers extra support to square up to Joga's attack.

The powerful and creative midfield is anchored by serial winner Didier Deschamps in the same effective way he provided the platform for Juventus and France's dominance through the second half of the 1990s. On his right with box-to-box duties is Michael Ballack who was outstanding at getting on the end of things but equally was a formidable and intelligent presence in the heart of midfield. Serie A Juan Sebastian Veron was a hell of a player, regularly overshadowing many of the other great playmakers of the late 1990s, and his light always burned brightest when partnered with solid workaholics (for Deschamps see Simeone or Dino Baggio) who were happy to let him get on showcasing his passing range and vision.

Veron renews a successful club partnership with Pavel Nedved. He will look to get in behind Alves but will equally have the freedom and inclination to roam and hunt for shooting opportunities in front of the opposition defencE. On the right is a Real Madrid legend in Michel, a classic right midfielder whose 4th place in the Ballon D'Or is only bettered as a wide midfielder in this pool by Nedved. Together that wing partnership will stretch the defence, present a variety of attacking threats and work back in behind the ball when required. The hub of the attack is Zlatan Ibrahimovic, the standout line-leader in the pool, who will relish the space, nearby work rate and service he'll get here.

WHY WE WILL WIN:
  • Better midfield. Everything you look for in a functioning midfield trio is present - graft and positional discipline in Deschamps, playmaking and laser vision in Veron, and a box-to-box merchant of the highest order in Ballack. Equally all three can put a shift in, all three can pass, and all three were intelligent and proven at the highest level. In fairness Joga/Balu's midfield has some real quality in it as well, but ours would appear to have an extra gear which should give us a crucial edge in there.
  • Superior and more varied attack. Pavel Nedved was an almost unstoppable force of nature at times. He can match what Alves offers going forward but has the ability to exploit any pockets of space he leaves behind. Where Nedved cuts inside, I think Alonso would struggle to handle the onrushing Czech. It's a similar story on the right where Michel will push back Carlos and they both share similar La Liga pedigrees. And through the middle we have the best striker on the park and the one I'd back to make the difference with such a high level of service from the midfield and flanks.
Otherwise I'd suggest we're fairly evenly matched. Bratseth was exceptional at covering the space in behind where Muller and Crespo, if deployed, are likely to attack. If Muller is on the right, Abidal's defensive instincts and aerial ability should help to keep tabs on him. Deschamps should gobble up any space in front of the defence. With that defensive set-up and the serious quality in front of them, we should be well placed.
 

Skizzo

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TEAM JOGA WRITE UP

OVERVIEW


The side retains its 3-5-2 set-up with Der Raumdeuter Thomas Müller and Dutch maestro Clarence Seedorf slotting in seamlessly. Tactically, the side features a compact rear guard, a marauding wing-back duo, a dogged yet inventive midfield unit and of course a fluid and deadly forward ensemble.

Nothing flashy tactically - the defensive unit will look to run a tight ship at the back, the wing-backs will be unleashed on the flanks, the midfield will look to service the forward line and shield the defense, whilst the vibrant forward duo will be left to do their thing.



THE REAR GUARD

Eike Immel broke through as a 17 year old in Dortmund and instantly became a success in goal. Having made his international debut at just 19 years old (a record at that time), he went on to be a part of the 1980 Euro winning German vintage as back up to Schumacher. After 8 solid years for Dortmund, he then transferred to Stuttgart for a record transfer for a goalie - where he went on to win the Bundesliga in 1992 and made the UEFA final in addition to starting in goal for Germany in Euro 1988.


A formidable defensive barricade, consisting of three consummate defensive powerhouses, command the defensive lines and will run a tight ship at the back. All three of them were well-versed in the dark arts of man-marking but were complete defensive articles, perfectly capable of fulfilling various roles and positions along the defensive line. It is key to note that all three of them have excelled in the back 3 and have mastered the intricacies of the demanding system. It will take some doing to breach this defense with their all-encompassing defensive skill sets and defensive prowess.

An all time-great in the top echelon of RBs/RCBs, Giuseppe Bergomi, the moustachioed hardman, certainly knew a thing or two about about shutting down the opposition, and holding the fort like few others. The Italian was an insurmountable presence in the right hand channels and central areas, having the athleticism to cover against wide threats in a back three, whilst stifling central forwards with his impeccable game inside the box. Riccardo Ferri, trusted compatriot of Bergomi for both club and country, was an excellent all-round defender who was a mainstay in Inter's defense and kept the likes of Vierchowod and Ferrara out of the Italian side. The Italian is tailor made for the LCB role, with his dynamism and ease at defending on the flanks and the central areas, having even executed the tactically taxing, roaming defensive (ala Gentile) role to perfection. The German Guido Buchwald patrols the core of the bedrock, and he perfectly suits the remit of squaring up against Ibra with his creative false 9-ish tendencies. Buchwald was equally adept as a midfield destroyer or as a defensive man-marker at the back; and as a free 3rd centre back in our set-up he is ideally suited to keeping an eye on Ibra whenever he drops deep to get on the ball, or limit his goalscoring threat in the box. He has truly shone on the biggest stages, winning the WC and man marking Maradona out of the final, whilst leading Stuttgart to two Bundesligas as the captain, scoring the deciding goal on the final day of the season to nab the second Bundesliga.


Two buccaneering wing-backs forged from the Brazilian ideals of joga bonito, both Roberto Carlos and Dani Alves are amongst the greatest attacking wing-backs to have ever graced the pitch. Both were real wrecking balls on their flanks and functioned as de-facto wingers for their sides even.

One of the only two full backs alongside Facchetti to have won the ballon d'Or silver ball and the Fifa World Player of the Year Silver Ball, Roberto Carlos's impact as an attacking wing-back was undeniable. Players regularly came and went through the revolving doors of the Bernabeu but R.Carlos was a fixture down the left hand flanks, winning 13 trophies (including 4 la ligas and 3 CLs) and was awarded the UEFA Defender of the Year twice. It was quite the exhilarating and terrorising sight, watching him rapidly eat up grass on the left flank with his powerful rampages. Dani Alves was a real tour de force on the right flank, with his barnstorming runs and sheer creative output - 15 league assists in a single season at his peak for Barca. He simply added a whole new dimension to one of the greatest sides ever with his wingsmanship and quality stream of supply from the right. The second-most decorated footballer in European competitions of all time, behind Maldini, with nine European medals.


ENGINE ROOM


A cohesive and well-oiled midfield ensemble with all three excelling in both basic phases of the game in their own distinctive way, whilst complementing each other brilliantly.

Xabi Alonso was a playmaking metronome atypical of his ilk, possessing the defensive nous, doggedness and the work-rate which enabled him to play as the holding midfielder for Real. His incisive passing expertise and ability to orchestrate play with his unrivalled vision, made him a potent cocktail on the ball whilst his game off it, helped shore up the defense significantly. With the likes of Müller's movement, the wing-backs lung-bursting forays forward, Häßler's trickery, Seedorf's direct running and Forlan's predatory instincts to feed, Alonso's playmaking abilities will be right at the fore here.

A real force of nature at his peak, Clarence Seedorf possessed a fearsome blend of physicality, technique and acute tactical acumen - making him a devastating package. A genuine all-rounder forged from the Dutch totaalvoetbaling philosophy, the Rossoneri legend simply oozed class and skill on the ball whilst being a real menace off it. Twice voted into the UEFA Team of the Year and winning the UEFA midfielder of the Year in 2007, Seedorf truly left his mark on Milan's during their quests for domestic and European success. He'd have the freedom to impose himself on the midfield in a box to box midfield role, whilst his combination with Alonso and Häßler is a mouth-watering one.

When Milan played well, which happened often, each and every time it occurred Seedorf played an amazing match. He is a world class player -
Adriano Galliani


Thomas Häßler's was a real livewire whose creativity, incessant running and technical ingenuity made him stand out in a quality WC winning German generation. His dynamic game makes him the perfect bridge between offense and defense, in a free role which suits his game to a tee. A sublime playmaker, Häßler was expert at carving out gilt-edged chances with his inch-perfect passing, whilst his zest and trickery meant he was brilliant at carrying the ball from deep and jinxing past players with consummate ease. Be it driving forward from deep or to the flanks, aiding the team defensively with his graft or offensively with his craft, meshing together with his teammates or going on a mazy individual run, Häßler would be right at the heart of proceedings here. With the midfield of Alonso-Seedorf to dovetail with and the deadly roaming marksmen up front, it would be hard to put a stop to the pint-sized German genius.


OFFENSE

A lethal forward duo that just screams goals and has just about every array of finish in its arsenal.

Since his sudden rise to the limelight of world football in 2010, no player has transcended boundaries such as Thomas Müller. An amalgamation of other-worldly unorthodox and traditionally fundamental — the self anointed Raumdeuter finds unique ways to create space, yet consistently makes textbook decisions with his passing and finishing. Possessing a borderline supernatural spatial awareness and a superlative all-round game, Müller would be absolutely deadly in this free role a right sided forward. The unorthodox German would cherish playing in between the lines in a roaming role, with umpteen reserves of creativity and fluidity flowing through the side. It's testament to his quality that Thomas Müller has arguably been the most consistent and pivotal player for both club and country from 2009, alongside Lahm. No mean feat given that it's WC winning Germany and CL winning Bayern that we are talking about here.


Diego Forlan
would look to reprise his free role from his Atletico days, where he forged a fearsome duo with Aguero. Forlan had tremendous link-up play and a nose for sniffing out goals in the box whilst being absolutely lethal outside it. With the Raumdeuter to link up with and an enviable supply line providing the ammunition, the Uruguayan gunslinger would be a goalscoring force to be reckoned with here. Not only was Forlan a finisher of the highest calibre, his wholesome style of play meant that he could contribute to various aspects of the game - his ceaseless running always giving others options, intelligent movement distracting/occupying opposition defenders and his link-up play making him a delight to play alongside. 2 pichichis and 2 European Golden Shoes, isn't too shabby for someone who played for the unfancied Villareal and Atletico - his average rating, has seen him among Spain's top five for four of the five consecutive seasons, at his glorious peak.

It's also notable that whilst both Forlan and Müller were fantastic central goalscoring threats, they married it with excellent games on the channels and flanks, industry off the ball, relentless movement and selfless link-up play - truly making it a dynamic and fluid forward duo capable of excelling at various phases.


In what promises to be a tight match, we believe our defense, which matches up well to his attack tactically, and our attack should just give us the edge in this game. Good luck @Gio
 

Skizzo

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League Peaks

Serie A

Ricardo Ferri - Serie A 1988/1989
Giuseppe Bergomi - Serie A 1988/1989
Clarence Seedorf - 2 Serie As, UEFA Team Of The Year - 2002, 2007; UEFA Best Club Midfielder - 2007; AC Milan Hall of Fame

Bundesliga

Eike Immel - Kicker's top 5 goalkeeper of the year - 1982, 1986, 1988, 1992, 1993; kicker Bundesliga Team of the Season - 1982, 1986, 1992
Buchwald - 2 Bundesligas
Thomas Müller - 4 Bundesligas; World Soccer Young Player of the Year - 2010;
Thomas Häßler - German Player of the Year - 1989, 1992; Kicker's top 5 midfielder of the year - 1988, 1989, 1990, 1995, 1996, 1997; Bundesliga Team of the Season - 1988, 1989, 1990, 1996, 1998, 2000

la liga

Roberto Carlos - 4 la ligas; Ballon d'Or siver ball; Fifa World Player of the Year silver ball; UEFA Club defender of the Year - 2002, 2003;
Dani Alves - 5 la ligas; la liga's best defender 2009; UEFA Team of the Year - 2007, 2009, 2011, 2015 etc
Xabi Alonso - 1 la liga; la liga's best midfielder 2012; Spanish Player of the Year 2003;
Diego Forlan - Pichichi - 2005, 2009; European Golden Shoe - 2005, 2009;

Subs
Amedeo Carboni - 2 la ligas
Pablo Aimar - 2 la ligas
Dede - 2 Bundesligas
 

Skizzo

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@Rado_N can you make a poll for us as always?

Who will win with player peaks in the specified leagues (not career peaks)?
Team Gio
Team Joga/Balu

Cheers!

24 hours
visible votes
can change vote
 

Ecstatic

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TEAM JOGA WRITE UP

The German Guido Buchwald patrols the core of the bedrock, and he perfectly suits the remit of squaring up against Ibra with his creative false 9-ish tendencies. Buchwald was equally adept as a midfield destroyer or as a defensive man-marker at the back; and as a free 3rd centre back in our set-up he is ideally suited to keeping an eye on Ibra whenever he drops deep to get on the ball, or limit his goalscoring threat in the box. He has truly shone on the biggest stages, winning the WC and man marking Maradona out of the final, whilst leading Stuttgart to two Bundesligas as the captain, scoring the deciding goal on the final day of the season to nab the second Bundesliga.
@Joga Bonito

Unsure to understand your tactics.

Is Buchwald a Sweeper, a marker (CB) or a defensive midfielder ?

Otherwise, who is the equivalent of Buchwald in the modern era in terms of style of play? Sammer, Beckenbauer, Busquets, Makelele ?

Thanks :)
 

harms

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Otherwise, who is the equivalent of Buchwald in the modern era in terms of style of play? Sammer, Beckenbauer, Busquets, Makelele ?
Not sure if Beckenbauer qualifies as a modern equivalent of a player that played 20 years later ;) As a free 3rd centre-back, funnily enough, the most famous comparison that comes to mind is his companion Bergomi, who used to play this role for Italy. Not a libero, but a free man-marker.
 

Isotope

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There just something is not right with Joga/Balu's. Maybe it's because the Buchwald role, Seedorf as box to box, or Forlan - T. Muller up-front? Or maybe it needs deeper understanding of its formation.
 

Balu

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I'd say that Javi Martinez would be a good modern comparison, with similar strength and ability and who'd also fit the DM/3rd central defender role quite well.

Is Buchwald a Sweeper, a marker (CB) or a defensive midfielder ?
Think of him as a free additional defender who can switch between DM and centerback depending on the situation. He did in fact play all those roles during his career, so his versatility is very helpful against Ibra.
 

Ecstatic

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Not sure if Beckenbauer qualifies as a modern equivalent of a player that played 20 years later ;) As a free 3rd centre-back, funnily enough, the most famous comparison that comes to mind is his companion Bergomi, who used to play this role for Italy. Not a libero, but a free man-marker.
Sure, Beckenbauer is unique :cool:
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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I think Joga/Balu's set up is way too defensive. With Nedved and Michel, they are likely to be completely overwhelmed in the midfield when Gio has possession. Even when J/B has possession the way forward will be demanding imo. I would expect Muller to be dropping deeper to even thing out which may leave Forlan isolated. Carlos and Alves will help in width but Nedved/Michel are far classier and more effective. On the flipside, with Buchwald on Zlatan it will be hard for Gio to score...but considering the class of player he has at his disposal, I expect him to sneak one in.
 

Ecstatic

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I'd say that Javi Martinez would be a good modern comparison, with similar strength and ability and who'd also fit the DM/3rd central defender role quite well.


Think of him as a free additional defender who can switch between DM and centerback depending on the situation. He did in fact play all those roles during his career, so his versatility is very helpful against Ibra.
Thank you for your reply.

So, Buchwald will follow Ibra or join the midfield depending the circumstances.

Let's say he is like Thiago Motta with PSG in terms of positioning but with much stronger defensive skills.
 

Gio

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My money's on Bratseth sneaking one in.


Not literally, I just wanted to watch that goal again.
 

Ecstatic

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@Gio

Your mercato is surprising.

Your 1st pick was Littbarski (on the bench tonight) and then Abidal (on the pitch).

I would have probably tried to replace Deschamps if someone better was available.
 

Joga Bonito

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the Buchwald role
Buchwald as stated by Balu is the 3rd centre back in our team. He has excelled as a pure man-marker, defensive midfielder and as a centre-back. Not that he is playing all roles simultaneously here but he will function just as any 3rd centre back does, keep an eye on the prime goalscoring threat and his all-round game gives him the freedom to push forward into midfield if and when Ibra drops deep.

Forlan - T. Muller
I'd recommend these games of Forlan to illustrate how he functioned perfectly in a fluid forward duo with another mobile striker/second-striker, with both frequently interchanging roles, dropping deep, foraging forward etc.






Anyway thoughts on the game, I do think Gio's forward line relies too much on Ibra in the goalscoring stakes. Not that he couldn't deliver but given the quality of our defense, Ibra would have relished more goalscoring threat/support from his fellow forwards.

Tbf, Gio's got an excellent supplementary goalscoring threat from deep in Ballack but with the clogged central areas due to our midfield unit and our back three, I do believe that the forward line could have done with a more pronounced goalscoring wide forward - also to capitalise on Ibra's playmaking abilities.

Whereas we have two top notch goalscorers sharing the load equally, in Forlan - winner of two pichichis and 2 European Golden Shoes - and the deadly Müller. They also have the ideal platform to exhibit their all round games with plethora of tactical freedom (playing as a forward duo in a 3-5-2) and also a steady stream of service from the wing-backs, Seedorf, Alonso and Häßler.

Also in terms of the midfield battle we believe it's a deadlock, with both multi-faceted midfields having excellent balance and a nice blend of industry and creativity. We do believe the game would come down to which attack would leave it's mark on the game, and imo our defense has a better chance of coming off better, relative to his defense.
 
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Joga Bonito

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I think Joga/Balu's set up is way too defensive. With Nedved and Michel, they are likely to be completely overwhelmed in the midfield when Gio has possession. Even when J/B has possession the way forward will be demanding imo. I would expect Muller to be dropping deeper to even thing out which may leave Forlan isolated. Carlos and Alves will help in width but Nedved/Michel are far classier and more effective. On the flipside, with Buchwald on Zlatan it will be hard for Gio to score...but considering the class of player he has at his disposal, I expect him to sneak one in.
Whilst Nedved and Michel could most certainly contribute to the midfield stakes, it doesn't seem ideal but rather surplus for them to cut into the midfield areas, clogging up the core even further, with both midfield units and my back 3 congesting the areas. They would be rather be playing more as a wide midfielder/forward who squares up against the full-back/side centre-backs etc, as opposed to clogging the midfield areas any further. Esp that too in a 4-3-3. Also as much as I like Michel, I wouldn't agree with the statement that he is more effective than Carlos on the flanks.
 
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harms

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Straight off the bat, I do think Gio's forward line relies too much on Ibra in the goalscoring stakes. Not that he couldn't deliver but given the quality of our defense, Ibra would have relished more goalscoring threat/support from his fellow forwards. Tbf, he's got an excellent supplementary goalscoring threat from deep in Ballack but I do believe that the forward line could have done with a more pronounced goalscoring wide forward, esp to capitalise on Ibra's playmaking abilities. Whereas we have two top notch goalscorers sharing the load equally, in Forlan - winner of two pichichis and 2 European Golden Shoes - and the deadly Müller. They also have the ideal platform to exhibit their all round games with plethora of tactical freedom (playing as a forward duo in a 3-5-2) and also a steady stream of service from the wing-backs, Seedorf, Alonso and Häßler.

Also in terms of the midfield battle we believe it's a deadlock, with both multi-faceted midfields having excellent balance and a nice blend of industry and creativity. We do believe the game would come down to which attack would leave it's mark on the game, and imo our defense has a better chance of coming off better, relative to his defense imo.

Anyway thoughts on the game, I do think Gio's forward line relies too much on Ibra in the goalscoring stakes. Not that he couldn't deliver but given the quality of our defense, Ibra would have relished more goalscoring threat/support from his fellow forwards.

Tbf, Gio's got an excellent supplementary goalscoring threat from deep in Ballack but with the clogged central areas due to our midfield unit and our back three, I do believe that the forward line could have done with a more pronounced goalscoring wide forward - also to capitalise on Ibra's playmaking abilities.

Whereas we have two top notch goalscorers sharing the load equally, in Forlan - winner of two pichichis and 2 European Golden Shoes - and the deadly Müller. They also have the ideal platform to exhibit their all round games with plethora of tactical freedom (playing as a forward duo in a 3-5-2) and also a steady stream of service from the wing-backs, Seedorf, Alonso and Häßler.

Also in terms of the midfield battle we believe it's a deadlock, with both multi-faceted midfields having excellent balance and a nice blend of industry and creativity. We do believe the game would come down to which attack would leave it's mark on the game, and imo our defense has a better chance of coming off better, relative to his defense.
I think that you'll find this useful:
You Already Said That: The Problem with Repeating Yourself, and the Best Ways to Break the Habit




We all have certain subjects that we just love talking about. Whether it’s a TV show, book series, favorite hobby, or topic of interest, almost everyone has something they could go on and on about. The problem with going on and on, though, is that it can make a conversation feel repetitive, and boring. When you’re too rigid about the topic you want to discuss, and all your conversations seem to link back to it, others may lose interest in talking to you.

For that reason, breaking free of repetition can be essential in order for you to make and keep friends. If you notice that your conversations tend to go in circles, it might be time to break the habit. Here are some tips on how to do that:

  1. Recognize When You’re Repeating Yourself. It’s easy to get carried away when you’re excited about a certain topic, which is why you may begin to repeat things without even realizing you’re doing it. That’s why the first step to breaking this habit is to recognize that you have this habit. Do you find that this subject comes up in every conversation you have? Does it come up more than once per conversation? Do the people you’re talking to often say things like “you said that already” or “you already told me.” If so, repetition might have become a part of your conversation routine, and it’s time to make a change.
  2. Recognize Why You’re Repeating Yourself. Are you doing it for emphasis? To remind someone of something? Or are you simply doing it because you’re not sure what else to say? If you find repetition is your go-to “space filler” in conversation, you may want to try out some other ways to keep the momentum. Try changing the subject to something completely new, or giving the other person a chance to do the talking. If it seems like the conversation has run its course, it’s okay to politely excuse yourself.
  3. Listen Closely. When you let your mind wander during a conversation, you may lose track of the topic at hand. Then, repeating something you’ve already discussed may seem like the only way to keep from checking out of the conversation completely. Instead, try to stay engaged in the conversation as it’s happening. Ask questions, add comments, and make eye contact. Let the conversation lead you to unexpected places, and remember there’s no need to keep returning to topics you’ve already covered.
  4. When in doubt, Ask. If it’s possible you’ve already shared this story, and you don’t want to repeat yourself, it never hurts to ask. Simply say, “Have I told you about the time I…?” or “I can’t remember if I already mentioned…” You may find that the person you’re speaking to is open to hearing more. But if they’re not, it’s best to let the subject drop.
Like most habits, repeating yourself might take some effort to break. But by keeping these tips in mind, and allowing the conversation to progress naturally, you can make a huge difference in how others feel about talking to you.
 

Joga Bonito

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I think that you'll find this useful:
You Already Said That: The Problem with Repeating Yourself, and the Best Ways to Break the Habit




We all have certain subjects that we just love talking about. Whether it’s a TV show, book series, favorite hobby, or topic of interest, almost everyone has something they could go on and on about. The problem with going on and on, though, is that it can make a conversation feel repetitive, and boring. When you’re too rigid about the topic you want to discuss, and all your conversations seem to link back to it, others may lose interest in talking to you.

For that reason, breaking free of repetition can be essential in order for you to make and keep friends. If you notice that your conversations tend to go in circles, it might be time to break the habit. Here are some tips on how to do that:

  1. Recognize When You’re Repeating Yourself. It’s easy to get carried away when you’re excited about a certain topic, which is why you may begin to repeat things without even realizing you’re doing it. That’s why the first step to breaking this habit is to recognize that you have this habit. Do you find that this subject comes up in every conversation you have? Does it come up more than once per conversation? Do the people you’re talking to often say things like “you said that already” or “you already told me.” If so, repetition might have become a part of your conversation routine, and it’s time to make a change.
  2. Recognize Why You’re Repeating Yourself. Are you doing it for emphasis? To remind someone of something? Or are you simply doing it because you’re not sure what else to say? If you find repetition is your go-to “space filler” in conversation, you may want to try out some other ways to keep the momentum. Try changing the subject to something completely new, or giving the other person a chance to do the talking. If it seems like the conversation has run its course, it’s okay to politely excuse yourself.
  3. Listen Closely. When you let your mind wander during a conversation, you may lose track of the topic at hand. Then, repeating something you’ve already discussed may seem like the only way to keep from checking out of the conversation completely. Instead, try to stay engaged in the conversation as it’s happening. Ask questions, add comments, and make eye contact. Let the conversation lead you to unexpected places, and remember there’s no need to keep returning to topics you’ve already covered.
  4. When in doubt, Ask. If it’s possible you’ve already shared this story, and you don’t want to repeat yourself, it never hurts to ask. Simply say, “Have I told you about the time I…?” or “I can’t remember if I already mentioned…” You may find that the person you’re speaking to is open to hearing more. But if they’re not, it’s best to let the subject drop.
Like most habits, repeating yourself might take some effort to break. But by keeping these tips in mind, and allowing the conversation to progress naturally, you can make a huge difference in how others feel about talking to you.
Oops my mistake :lol:
 

Gio

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@Gio

Your mercato is surprising.

Your 1st pick was Littbarski (on the bench tonight) and then Abidal (on the pitch).

I would have probably tried to replace Deschamps if someone better was available.
Yeah I made a cnut of it.

But seriously Littbarski was as much to prevent anyone else getting him. While Abidal was purely to help the defence snuff out Muller if he pulls wide. The actual upgrades available after the quarters were very limited.

Upgrading Deschamps wasn't really possible or needed given the strength of the midfield. Davids was available and, as a big Davids fan, would have loved to squeeze him in. But the midfield would have lost some of it's balance which I'd absolutely want to keep.
 

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The amount of graft and steel in Gio's team is truly impressive and you'd need more attacking impetus to break that down.
I don't think you needed a third CB there which you also can't drop given you have two wingbacks, and that basically puts you in a really tight spot tactically.
I can see Nedved having a stormer given the midfield support he'll have here. Abidal is a fantastic addition to play behind him, he suits him really well and that flank seals it for me. With the central core keeping eyes on the likes of Ibra and Ballack, the Czech cannon will take the game by the scruff of it's neck here. He's also a class above any other player on the pitch in terms of the impact he can make on the game both on and off the ball and I can see him deciding this game.
 

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The amount of graft and steel in Gio's team is truly impressive and you'd need more attacking impetus to break that down
Tbf, the likes of Häßler, Forlan, Müller were proper workhorses too, which is all the more impressive given their attacking credentials, in addition to our hardworking midfield (including Alonso who perhaps lacked the dynamism but no more so than Veron imo).

I don't think you needed a third CB there which you also can't drop given you have two wingbacks,
We could very well play another wing-back conducive formation in a 4-2-2-2 with Häßler and Seedorf being excellent in their RAM-LAM roles. However, we do think this is the ideal set-up with an emphasis on fortifying the middle against his chief goalscoring threats in Ibra and Ballack. Whilst you do make a good point about Nedved potentially escaping scrutiny and making an impact, it's key to note that we couldn't have asked for a better RCB than Bergomi, in just about any draft (alongside Vogts and slightly behind Thuram imo) for that matter, patrolling the right hand channels and the flanks if need be.
 
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Gio

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As for the contest in midfield, I think we have a small but critical advantage. At Leverkusen and Bayern, Ballack was as dominant a box-to-box midfielder as anyone in Europe. While his opposite number Seedorf has enjoyed a long, decorated and influential career, I'm not sure he was ever in the bracket where he'd be contending for a spot in a world XI. Veron in Serie A was an extraordinary player who outshone the likes of Zidane, Davids and Rui Costa for much of the late 1990s. His battles with Davids were legendary. And while Deschamps and Alonso are different players, I think the Frenchman is better suited to dealing with a busy AM like Hassler than Alonso would be holding the fort against the physically superior specimens who would breaking into and through his zone.

There's not a lot in it, but there is a slight edge there IMO. And with the ability of Nedved to roam and probe it is all conducive to control in a key area of the park.
 

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it's key to note that we couldn't have asked for a better RCB than Bergomi
Usually, yes, but while already having a man marker in defense, you cannot expect Bergomi to constantly step out and close Nedved down when he has the ball, that would be insanely reckless and would leave loads of spaces behind. In this game, Bergomi would have to stay pretty disciplined at the back, with Buchwald following Ibra all over the place. That makes things quite relaxed for Nedved, and he'll be in his zone of comfort, an area from where he can pretty much hurt your team. With Abidal in support, it's a rather telling advantage for Gio in that part of the pitch. Bergomi would constantly have to monitor Buchwald's position to decide whether to stay back or step out, and while that's a taxing job for anyone, and with all due respect, I don't see Bergomi having that sort of game intelligence to make all those decisions spot on. Either he plays it safe or gambles it which is where he could make an error, and in both cases, the advantage lies with Gio.
 

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You won't hear me say a negative word about your midfield, it's cracking and is spot on in terms of balance.

It's fair to say both midfields have their own unique edges, with mine being more creative and yours having a more dynamic feel to it. Of course, Ballack and Deschamps were no mugs on the ball and likewise Alonso contributed to the defensive phase of the game with his immaculate positioning and Häßler with his sheer industry and tactical nous.

It's also crucial not to underrate Seedorf here and whilst he might not boast the goalscoring exploits of Ballack, he was one of the key players for the successful mid noughties Milan side (having been voted into the UEFA Team of The Year twice and winning the UEFA Midfielder of the Year in 2007) and was as complete as they come.

Alonso was absolutely pivotal for Real and arguably the best deep playmaker in the world alongside Busquets at his peak for both Mourinho's and Ancelotti's Real - having won la liga's best midfielder in 2012 when the league was littered with some sublime Spanish maestros, esp from Barca, in the middle. Likewise Häßler was a truly brilliant individual who managed to blend both craft and graft in equal measures, with tactical intelligence to boot. Someone who was truly exceptional in the Bundesliga, having won one German Player of the Year in a WC winning crowd, voted into the team of the season no less than 6 times and featuring in the Kicker's top 5 midfielder of the Year list, six times too.

Also I'd rate Alonso ahead of Deschamps myself on an individual basis but it wouldn't be fair comparing the best deep playmaker in the draft with the best holding midfielder. Either way both have ideal partners with Seedorf's game off the ball complementing Alonso perfectly and likewise, Deschamps off the ball game meshing together well with Veron's. Two industrious attacking midfielders in Ballack and Häßler but of course Ballack has the edge there with his physicality but Häßler's creativity counter-balances it in the grand scheme of things imo. Both midfields fit their respective teams like a glove.
 
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I've criticized JB/B front line in the last two games but this one looks spot on to bring out the best of the two of them. Forlan/Muller seem pretty good partnership and should work well. Two very well crafted sides.

Didn't @Gio pick Littbarski, who IMO is a big upgrade on Michel?
 

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I've criticized JB/B front line in the last two games but this one looks spot on to bring out the best of the two of them. Forlan/Muller seem pretty good partnership and should work well. Two very well crafted sides.

Didn't @Gio pick Littbarski, who IMO is a big upgrade on Michel?
While Littbarski would be a marginal upgrade in terms of quality and a fair bit in terms of reputation, Michel was a very good player. Beckham-esque with his ability to deliver and work the flank, but more nimble and incisive in the channels. His list of achievements both individual and collective is very impressive for someone not many folk recognise and rate that highly in the grand scheme of things.

La Liga: 1985–86, 1986–87, 1987–88, 1988–89, 1989–90, 1994–95
Copa del Rey: 1988–89, 1992–93
Copa de la Liga: 1984–85
Supercopa de España: 1988, 1989, 1990, 1993
UEFA Cup: 1984–85, 1985–86
Copa Iberoamericana: 1994

La Liga Spanish Player of the Year: 1986
European Cup: Top Scorer 1988
FIFA World Cup: Bronze Boot: 1990
Ballon d'Or: 4th Place 1987

 

Enigma_87

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Spanish quota doesn't allow Gio to play him
I see, I thought he was going to sub Bratseth when he brought in the German, didn't realize it was Abidal on Sergi just now.

While Littbarski would be a marginal upgrade in terms of quality and a fair bit in terms of reputation, Michel was a very good player. Beckham-esque with his ability to deliver and work the flank, but more nimble and incisive in the channels. His list of achievements both individual and collective is very impressive for someone not many folk recognise and rate that highly in the grand scheme of things.
aye he was consistent alright not sure where I'd rank him to be honest, probably around Futre's level in terms of peak ability. Don't rate him all that much but probably some of the other folks will do.

Abidal is definite upgrade on Sergi tho and will work well with Nedved.
 

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Anyway thoughts on the game, I do think Gio's forward line relies too much on Ibra in the goalscoring stakes. Not that he couldn't deliver but given the quality of our defense, Ibra would have relished more goalscoring threat/support from his fellow forwards.
I'm not sure I agree. Unless we isolate to a straight comparison between Forlan/Muller and Ibrahimovic. But collectively our midfield contribution is significant through Michael Ballack (a 2-in-3 scorer at his peak), Michel (1-in-4 through his career and better than 1-in-3 at his peak) and Pavel Nedved (lethal from range) - and that's superior to what the opposition midfield support can bring to the table.
 

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Agreed on Michel who was a decent goalscorer, all things considered, but primarily a creator, as too was Nedved in his own unique way. I just don't think there are enough supplementary goalscoring threats from out wide, esp given how congested it is in the middle and particularly with a 4-3-3 set-up which generally tends to feature a genuine goalscoring wing-forward more often than not. And that too, with a creative #9 in Ibrahimovic who loved dropping deep and had the tendency to function as the creative presence, in addition to being a goalscorer. Not that Michel and Nedved were poor goalscorers by any means, esp Michel, but given your set-up (4-3-3) a more goalscoring wide forward to accompany Ibra would have been preferable, esp in terms of breaking through our defense.