The 3 year peak rule isn't necessarily written in stone and is just a basic guideline/framework for voters and managers etc, so as to ensure that one/two season wonders aren't overhyped, and that the player should have a minimum of a 3 year peak or something. At least that's my take on it and there's been a lot of discussion on it in the past, but there's no point in being overly particular about it etc. Everyone's take on the peak vs longevity matter is fairly subjective, and you can't really have a clearly defined rule for this issue I guess.
Las Vegas Monopoly Draft
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
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Aye it's the peak/longevity thing. I'm probably on the other side and rate VdS a little lower than the popular perception.
This. Guideline but unlikely to be anything but subjectively applied.
I sort for know what you mean but three is a clear defined rule. Judge based on 3 year peak. It would probably be an idea for managers to add what 3 years they were classing a seams. Then all arguing positives/negatives of the player would have to be about them 3 years.
Might just be me, but it's a particular gripe of mine when arguing against a player and they reference two completely different periods in a player's career.
The problem with nailing the voting criteria down too much is some of the voters probably won't pay the small print much heed.
It was tried out in Annah's all time auction draft but I don't really think it worked, as I think most just ignored it and went by their own subjective peak-longevity judgement iirc.
Call them out on that
Nah to me VdS is just better - probably level above, not only due to longevity. He's my type of keeper. Most would probably know and it's not a popular choice but my favorite keeper of all time is Dasayev as he was the complete package. Similarly to him VdS is just a cool composed presence at the back which helps the whole defensive unit. He's so solid and dependable you probably can count the mistakes he made during his stay at United on the fingers of your hands.
Julio Cesar in terms of ability is more comparable to Schmikes than he's to VdS. He was top keeper for shorter period and I agree with you being one of the top keepers in the last decade, below VdS, Buffon and Neuer level - I've mentioned this during the game as well. Casillas I don't rate that highly to be honest. If I had to choose between Julio Cesar and him I'd choose the former, regardless of the trophies the latter won throughout his career. I didn't expect Cesar to be rated so low to be honest around here which was a surprise.
VdS holds United's record for clean sheets per game and I think CL record for number of clean sheets. Sure he had a better defence than Schmikes did and although big Pete had the higher peak in terms of ability and terrific saves, I don't think there's much between them tbh.
Gotta be one of Scholes or Schuster.
Trouble is you, sometimes those three years are not in the same span. Giggs is a prime example. Then Maradona, what would you say was his 3 years peak? Same for Pele and many others.
His throws man, his throws!!!! Awesome at starting counters.
Not the players, the managers when they do such a thing
He's awesome, ever present in the box.
Yeah I think I've followed couple of discussions before between managers for those two players. Can't remember exact game or draft but there's always a fine margin sometimes when a player is depicted ability wise during different periods of his career. Selling the best of both worlds
I'm somewhere along the Rockies.... So apologies for lack of fanfare!
@Skizzo @Annahnomoss vs @Tuppet
@Enigma_87 vs @Jayvin
Feel free to set up a suitable time. Any neutral online can set up the match if I'm not online.
@Skizzo @Annahnomoss vs @Tuppet
@Enigma_87 vs @Jayvin
Feel free to set up a suitable time. Any neutral online can set up the match if I'm not online.
I rate VdS at par with Schmeichel. One of my favourite United players ever.
Ffs man, didn't know that. Should have done it myself earlier with all the bells and whistles.
Ofcourse !! Lets just get this over with @Skizzo @AnnahnomossEdit: Wait I just checked if you guys don't play Bergomi (play Neeskens there for example) then you don't even have a player which can be sent off, which means Cristiano is going to be sent off as well. I don't think there is much point to this game. You guys have an awesome team, take a bye and win the final.
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Yeah I checked as well. Only Bergomi can be sent off from their team and only 1 point or something as he picked less than 10 reds.
Edit: Wait I just checked if you guys don't play Bergomi (play Neeskens there for example) then you don't even have a player which can be sent off, which means Cristiano is going to be sent off as well. I don't think there is much point to this game. You guys have an awesome team, take a bye and win the final.
I'm not sure how Jayvin team is (Keano definitely has 10 or more reds, Davids the same) but they can field the same team without upgrades in the final while the other team most likely will get a player sent off as well or field a much weaker team.
Practically with that rule they win the draft.
Checked Jayvin's as well, the only one with Bozsik in the team instead of Davids on reds is Keane.
So basically if I go through I can't possibly reinforce 4 first team players (Desailly, Schuster, Dani Alves and Ronaldinho) and in an all time final with 10 men is practically a dead rubber.
It's better Jayvin to be through to the final and hope he lands on a decent box to replace Keane so that we have a decent final, otherwise is again dead in the water as he has 1 CM in Bozsik who wouldn't fall in the reds category.
So basically if I go through I can't possibly reinforce 4 first team players (Desailly, Schuster, Dani Alves and Ronaldinho) and in an all time final with 10 men is practically a dead rubber.
It's better Jayvin to be through to the final and hope he lands on a decent box to replace Keane so that we have a decent final, otherwise is again dead in the water as he has 1 CM in Bozsik who wouldn't fall in the reds category.
What's the point in this red card thing? Just play the fecking game
Edit: Wait I just checked if you guys don't play Bergomi (play Neeskens there for example) then you don't even have a player which can be sent off, which means Cristiano is going to be sent off as well. I don't think there is much point to this game. You guys have an awesome team, take a bye and win the final.
I don't think you understood how this works. For starters, the cards will get rescinded for the final (the "Garrincha rule") and Reds are only happening in the semis.
So the rule is valid only for the semis? I get the rescinded part for the player sent off, but in the final you'll still have (me, Tuppet and probably Jayvin) players that have more than 5 reds during their career with Skizzo/Annah probably 0.
Either way - both Jayvin and Skizzo/Annah can field starting eleven that doesn't have cards in the semis and me and Tuppet each have 4 at least. Ronnie, Schuster, Desailly and Dani Alves for me and Vieira, Samuel, Blanc, Ronaldo for Tuppet. Jayvin only needs to put on someone on Keane's role and he has a sure one man advantage for half a game, which in a tight game is a sure win.
Even if Jayvin fields Keane he has a small chance for him to be sent off.
So the choices for me and Tuppet for the semis are - either field a weak team (probably with keepers as outfield players on my part) or get a man sent off in the middle of the game, which essentially kills both ties.
Something like this:
--------------------VDS----------------------
Maldini----Desailly----Julio Cesar---Schnellinger
---------------Xavi-------Souness------------
-------------Eusebio-----------Kaka----------
-----------Ronaldo--------Erico-----------------
and that's 50-50 chance only if Jayvin fields Keane.
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You are overthinking / overestimating the impact of a red card while also underestimating the good judgement of other draft regulars.
You are all playing an entire half at full strength, you may well win the game on the back of a good first half. Again, teams get red cards all the time and still manage to win games: France won a World Cup despite finishing three games with ten men (inc. Semi and Final).
The worst thing you can do is actually start with a spastic formation like the one above. You will sure lose that game then, and rightly so.
PS: You keep banging on about Jayvin having it easy, what exactly is his midfield if he loses Keane? He is far and away the most vulnerable here.
You are all playing an entire half at full strength, you may well win the game on the back of a good first half. Again, teams get red cards all the time and still manage to win games: France won a World Cup despite finishing three games with ten men (inc. Semi and Final).
The worst thing you can do is actually start with a spastic formation like the one above. You will sure lose that game then, and rightly so.
PS: You keep banging on about Jayvin having it easy, what exactly is his midfield if he loses Keane? He is far and away the most vulnerable here.
I think you are rather underestimating it in terms of draft context, mate. Most regulars hold their voting until they hear both manager's contribution and most of them will probably vote after that 12 hrs mark. When you see the new formation with a hole in it due to the red card you'll vote for the opposite team - it's natural. You need 3 managers to switch their votes and that gives you 6 vote difference. And those who are just catching up will surely not vote for you when they see the red. It would not make sense unless you have a much better team than the opposition.
Besides you know how it works and why the sub is useless for me and Tuppet. Even if I can make a sub I don't have a defender as Chumpitaz is injured, while he also has a short squad and if Ronaldo is off again the tie is killed.
To be perfectly blunt I just don't see what this one is supposed to reward in terms of drafting. If you have built so far a balanced team but with more modern players you get shot in the foot because there is more data available and generally they pick more cards than the oldies due to the different times. For example you get Jairzinho who has 4 reds in small excerpt, yet you have Desailly with over 800 games with 6 that falls into that category.
On the other hand I have Souness with just one, yet Dinho is the one more probable to sent off in this game. Just doesn't make sense in terms of realism, considering both players style, position and role they are likely to occupy.
IMO a red card will kill the game off in an instant. If it is tight it will immediately sway in that direction.
And there's also that you can't be 24 hrs online during the game so most likely you'll miss the red considering noon kick off. It just has too much handicap from the off.
I have no problems losing this one and of course I'll put up a full strength one as I really like the team that I've compiled, but I'm looking realistically and one man difference in an all time SF stage is huge. Even I'd consider changing my vote having in mind one full strength side and an unbalanced patched up one
Besides you know how it works and why the sub is useless for me and Tuppet. Even if I can make a sub I don't have a defender as Chumpitaz is injured, while he also has a short squad and if Ronaldo is off again the tie is killed.
To be perfectly blunt I just don't see what this one is supposed to reward in terms of drafting. If you have built so far a balanced team but with more modern players you get shot in the foot because there is more data available and generally they pick more cards than the oldies due to the different times. For example you get Jairzinho who has 4 reds in small excerpt, yet you have Desailly with over 800 games with 6 that falls into that category.
On the other hand I have Souness with just one, yet Dinho is the one more probable to sent off in this game. Just doesn't make sense in terms of realism, considering both players style, position and role they are likely to occupy.
IMO a red card will kill the game off in an instant. If it is tight it will immediately sway in that direction.
And there's also that you can't be 24 hrs online during the game so most likely you'll miss the red considering noon kick off. It just has too much handicap from the off.
I have no problems losing this one and of course I'll put up a full strength one as I really like the team that I've compiled, but I'm looking realistically and one man difference in an all time SF stage is huge. Even I'd consider changing my vote having in mind one full strength side and an unbalanced patched up one
Oh I thought it said one player sent off from each side. Only 1 team going down to 10 is pretty brutal, should be a good laugh though.
To be fair I do have midfield general Wayne Rooney on the bench
I love the concept of the Red Card rule but from a realistic perspective I think it should reversed. By that I mean every player should be eligible for the red card random roll EXCEPT players that never received a red card in their career (or no red card in World Cup, Euros, Copa and CL/EC at the least).
This reflects that almost any professional can have a meltdown if the circumstances are right/wrong enough. This would protect the least dirty players like Carlos Gamarra for instance who realistically wouldn't get a red, but still leave players open to red cards that would be potential reds in a real match. Heck Maradona had a few famous hand balls that never got caught and he wouldn't be eligible under the 5 RC rule which is a bit unrealistic imo since I think Diego would be just as likely if not more to get a red in an all-time SF as 'Dinho.
This reflects that almost any professional can have a meltdown if the circumstances are right/wrong enough. This would protect the least dirty players like Carlos Gamarra for instance who realistically wouldn't get a red, but still leave players open to red cards that would be potential reds in a real match. Heck Maradona had a few famous hand balls that never got caught and he wouldn't be eligible under the 5 RC rule which is a bit unrealistic imo since I think Diego would be just as likely if not more to get a red in an all-time SF as 'Dinho.
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Yeah I think this is a good idea, fairer while still being interesting/exciting.
@Enigma_87 when do you want to have our match? Saturday/Sunday/Tuesday are best for me.
Saturday?
Edit: Wait I just checked if you guys don't play Bergomi (play Neeskens there for example) then you don't even have a player which can be sent off, which means Cristiano is going to be sent off as well. I don't think there is much point to this game. You guys have an awesome team, take a bye and win the final.
Sure.
He's not the most vulnerable, because the chance of getting a player sent off (which is only Keane) is pretty small.Me and Tuppet are, and in the case of Tuppet, he might have a 0 chance with Skizzo/Annah not fielding Bergomi.
If he loses Keane it's the same like if I lose some of the players above - the game is killed in an instant as he wouldn't hold those three with only Bozsik there or even if he sacrifices a forward and pushes Rooney to midfield. In a sense the game is dependent on the randomizer in which I have like 2 in 10 chance of winning or whatever.
Yeah, but you should be safe the odds are well in your favor mate.
I'm fairly busy up until Wednesday to be perfectly honest. I might squeeze it for Tuesday then so we don't delay it till end of next week.
Yeah Tuesday sounds good
As for the red card stuff, just make every outfield player eligible on both sides. A bit fairer but still potential for epic meltdowns.
@Enigma_87 this is precisely why I never ran the Bamboozle draft. Having to go over and dissect 20+ events like this? No thank you.
Any one event will always affect some more than others. Rules or stats will be imperfect in reflecting real life, all that matters is there's a given basis set and how it affects managers given their picks is their bloody problem since they signed up for a fun draft with twists and turns.
Any one event will always affect some more than others. Rules or stats will be imperfect in reflecting real life, all that matters is there's a given basis set and how it affects managers given their picks is their bloody problem since they signed up for a fun draft with twists and turns.
This a good constructive idea and in the spirit of the rule. All managers shall submit the red card list of their rival (will do this on a joint convo, no point on here). No multiples of 5, every red is a ticket in the draw.
Can you clarify this please? I really have no idea what this means
Players with no red cards are excluded.
All players with red cards from both teams go into the draw, with their name entered as many times as they have red cards.
Top name after randomisation gets sent off.
I.e. you will get to spread the risk, but Keane will still be your more likely sending off.
The other bit is each manager shall submit a list of the rival players and their number of reds (with link to worldfootball.net). For oldies you can try dig up matches they got sent off in (RSSSF match details only) to add tickets to your rival and reduce your risk.
These shall be submitted in a specific private convo.
The mods' decisions are final.
@Skizzo @Annahnomoss @Enigma_87 @Tuppet
Alright sounds good, cheers anto
I think randomizing the outfield players is the fairest way to go as either manager has equal chance of getting a man sent off and easier to follow without going into checking and dissecting events.
Either way enough debate for me, let's just get it done, just tell me what to do on PM(should I send the list before or after the game has started for example).
Of course it's not the fairest way. If you picked Patrick Vieira he will have higher odds obviously.