Which I mentioned, but at the end of the day he's doing worse than Ian Holloway did at this stage with Blackpool who are smaller club and also played crazy attacking football. People fondly remember Holloway's team, I know I do, but nobody thinks he's amazing.
Leeds (dirty thugs) discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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I remember being a bit gutted when we trashed them at OT last day of the season having already won the league when they needed only a draw to survive.
They always stand out for me among most of the relegated teams over the recent years. This game was a classic
Have conceded the most goals of any PL team so far: 30 goals in 14 games
I enjoyed Blackpool’s stay in the league
They'll be much better once they sign some actual decent defenders. Their defence as individuals is a championship defence, not even a good one at that. Similar problems with other areas too, once they have some actual premier league quality players they'll improve.
Never seen a team like this in the premier League,they are fun to watch but a bit too open for my liking. I think it's a brutal stat that United could have scored 10+ & Leeds didn't have a single yellow card in the game.
By the way only to add one point. Gasperini teams also man mark but they are much more reliable from a competitive point of view.
What is laughable is a certain type of modern football fans who think that only this way of football is the right way to be played.
It isn’t and it never was. And you know why? Because sending 11 players to the pitch chasing the ball and opponents to the bathroom isn’t any sign of being competent or more brave.
It’s just a football concept. Only that. To adapt to your opponent strengths isn’t a sign of less bravery or being less intelligent.
At least Bielsa hasn’t this arrogant way of dismissing other football concepts. I mean he replaced Carlos Bianchi at Velez Sarsfield after all.
I suspect that some replies to this thread only know Bielsa from Leeds, and there’s nothing wrong with that, but dismissing a simple thing like saying the defensive organisation of his teams are anachronic to say the least is wrong and related to the quality of his defenders is something else.
He certainly doesn’t belong in the same league as a Lobanovsky that’s for sure.
What is laughable is a certain type of modern football fans who think that only this way of football is the right way to be played.
It isn’t and it never was. And you know why? Because sending 11 players to the pitch chasing the ball and opponents to the bathroom isn’t any sign of being competent or more brave.
It’s just a football concept. Only that. To adapt to your opponent strengths isn’t a sign of less bravery or being less intelligent.
At least Bielsa hasn’t this arrogant way of dismissing other football concepts. I mean he replaced Carlos Bianchi at Velez Sarsfield after all.
I suspect that some replies to this thread only know Bielsa from Leeds, and there’s nothing wrong with that, but dismissing a simple thing like saying the defensive organisation of his teams are anachronic to say the least is wrong and related to the quality of his defenders is something else.
He certainly doesn’t belong in the same league as a Lobanovsky that’s for sure.
Can’t stand Jimmy Floyd Hasslebaink
You dont win anything playing the way he does.
If the squad is good enough to not get sucked into a relegation fight, his style of play is great for a mid table club.. Very entertaining..
The problem is, if the squad isnt good enough to pull off enough wins by outscoring the opponents, you are looking at a relegation fight.
Leeds will be fine.. they have enough goals in them.
If the squad is good enough to not get sucked into a relegation fight, his style of play is great for a mid table club.. Very entertaining..
The problem is, if the squad isnt good enough to pull off enough wins by outscoring the opponents, you are looking at a relegation fight.
Leeds will be fine.. they have enough goals in them.
plastic meltdownThat is correct. I remember Bielsa at Marseille and he was doing really well until fitness became an issue in the 2nd part of the season, but I think he was challenging for the league (top of the league after half of the season).
The previous season, Marseille was 6th with 60 pts, PSG was top at 89 pts.
So having 41 pts at MD 19, 2 ahead of Lyon and 3 ahead of PSG was something.
But after that, they lost the MD 20 game, and Lyon went ahead.
At MD 25, Marseille was still 2nd with 49 pts. Lyon was 1st at 51 pts and PSG was 3rd at 49 pts as well.
Then MD 26, they drew.
At MD 31, Marseille was still 3rd at 57 pts, while PSG was top at 62 pts and Lyon 2nd with 61 pts.
Monaco 4th with 55 pts.
At MD 32, Marseille lost, while Monaco won.
Now we have PSG at 65 pts, Lyon at 64 pts, Monaco at 58 pts, Marseille at 55 pts.
They finish the season 4th.
The league table was: PSG at 83 pts, Lyon at 75 pts, Monaco at 71 pts, Marseille at 69 pts.
Given they were top of the league after all the first games, they should have won but something happened.
Still, it shows that his teams are not about just attacking, and defense is also a part of it.
But Leeds has poor quality.
It goes back to the eternal discussion about whether a manager is only great if he succeeds with "poor" teams/players.
Well, as Bielsa shows, his tactics are only applicable with "great" players.
If Bielsa has a world class defense, his teams would win like Pep's City teams, blowing away goals and not conceding much.
Does that make Bielsa poor? Absolutely not.
There are some really amazing tactical ideas from Bielsa that are somewhat unique to him.
In France, we made fun of his 2nd part of the season, but the way he pushes his forward line to compress the opposition and create space for his 2nd line?
I've never seen that before and I always found that fascinating because it's absolutely counter intuitive for me.
This
Probably the most naïve team I’ve seen in the PL since the early ‘90s.
I can understand some people being annoyed with the fawning over Bielsa but I’m glad it’s encouraged. As a fan of football I’d take his approach over Mouball any day of the week.
I can understand some people being annoyed with the fawning over Bielsa but I’m glad it’s encouraged. As a fan of football I’d take his approach over Mouball any day of the week.
Atalanta are more competitive because they have better players. And it is correct to say their defensive problems come down to individual quality, because what they do defensively is precisely to reduce the game to individual duels
Funnily enough, i think Manchester United are a side that would do really well, perhaps better than they are doing now, by adopting his ideas. Other than Lindeloff every other player they have is really good in duels
His bias was really over the top. He was seriously trying to claim a moral victory for Leeds because they won the possesion. Shades of Mike Summerbee.
They are entertaining to watch but my god they’re so overrated. I am sure they Will cause some problems to teams with low workrate like Arsenal. But any side with decent attackers Will do them quite easily.
Was he Rio-level over the top bias or did he approach Evra-level over the top bias?
Both are nowhere near as bad as that. Face like a slapped arse somehow trying to claim that Leeds were hard done by. United had one of the highest xG that I've ever seen. Sure Leeds may have got a couple more but United could have had 10. The xG was higher than Leicester's 9-0 over Southampton.
for all their possession, and getting into good positions, they only had a handful of shots on target. Agree, United could easily have scored 10.
Imagine them with some top defenders! I think they’re great, utterly nuts, but with that squad I’m fairly certain a more pragmatic approach would net them less points over an entire season.
Spot on. And Bielsa spent £95m in the summer whilst most clubs in the bottom half didn’t spend much at all. Given the hype I think they should be doing a lot better than they are.
I didn't watch the postgame stuff but Jimmy is always quite good. Maybe that's just my bias!
Yes it is. You can’t say other teams’ tactics, like Burnley’s low-block are equally as brave as the unbelievable one Bielsa used yesterday. That would just be untrue. More competence, no. More bravery, yes.
Yeah it’s great, shame it’s Leeds though. It’s not going to win them anything but it makes every game they play exciting, which is good.
I’ve always loved watching Bielsa teams since I found out about him when he managed Chile. The only manager I’ve seen with a crazier style is Zdenek Zemen, his Pescara team with Immobile, Insigne, and Veratti was absolutely bonkers.
I should hate Leeds
But their play. Sensational.
But their play. Sensational.
Yesterday the defending reminded me of that Swindon team that had one season in the league. They're a better than them overall, and Swindon ended up conceding 100 goals in 42 matches at 2.38 goals per game. Leeds are currently letting in 2.14 per game so not quite as bad and they have more firepower, but yesterday that defending really had the same sort of vibes.
Swindon's games against United were entertaining too. 4-2 at Old Trafford, and 2-2 at their place with Cantona getting sent off before he'd go on to get sent off again against Arsenal a few days later.
I agree with you overall too. Would rather be 1st, 14th where they are or 20th playing entertaining stuff than the same position playing boring stuff. Still, yesterday I did feel the urge to point out that 14th is still 14th and that it's been done plenty of times before by newly promoted sides at this stage. I think some people, perhaps in the media are in danger of equating entertainment with achievement .
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erm, yes it is.
Which is why Bielsa rarely coaches a top team. The teams that he chose to join are either mid-table or lower-table teams. The spin of this Leeds squad finished 13th in the Championship just two years ago.
They're a fun team to watch, good going forward and shambolic in defence.
Can you share the source for the xgoals. Interested.
Yeah, I am similar. Hardly ever watch City, and rarely Liverpool (apart from CL when it's a good draw). Leeds though, hard to resist. Also Southampton, and recently I've watched some Spurs games (not for the outstanding attacking football, more so for the defensive chess).
Bielsa has definitely made this league more fun.
He is a proper weird old fecker. Sit in a chair you cnut.
https://understat.com/match/11740 - Southampton 0-9 Leicester
https://understat.com/match/14570 - Man. United 6-2 Leeds
Chelsea did even better against them the other week on that front, 4.89-1.03.
Not quite the same but the Liverpool one on opening day was interesting, 3.15-0.27 so still very much dominated and somehow Leeds scored 3 off that. Leeds' worst attacking performance of the season on xG.
Still not as bad as Watford when City put 8 past them last season, that was a 6.63 for City. City also got a 5.52 when they scored 5 away at Brighton last season.
Really don't get the plaudits that Bielsa and Leeds are receiving based on yesterdays game.
They conceeded six goals, which in itself is a crime in football, quite obvious after the first twenty minutes they were set up wrong with Phillips exposed massively, yet rather than change it they acrried on with the same tactics and gameplan.
That is not something, in my eyes, to be applauded, the idea of football is to win, if you can achieve that whilst playing attractive football then all the better.
But letting in 6 goals, allowing the opposing midfield to break the lines repeatedly, gifting the attackers space to turn is not attractive football, its naive idiotic football that will only lead to goals conceded and ultimately loss after loss.
There is a happy medium to be found in football and Bielsa doesn't have it at Leeds.
They conceeded six goals, which in itself is a crime in football, quite obvious after the first twenty minutes they were set up wrong with Phillips exposed massively, yet rather than change it they acrried on with the same tactics and gameplan.
That is not something, in my eyes, to be applauded, the idea of football is to win, if you can achieve that whilst playing attractive football then all the better.
But letting in 6 goals, allowing the opposing midfield to break the lines repeatedly, gifting the attackers space to turn is not attractive football, its naive idiotic football that will only lead to goals conceded and ultimately loss after loss.
There is a happy medium to be found in football and Bielsa doesn't have it at Leeds.
He’s taken a Leeds side from mid-table in the Championship to mid table in the Prem, and they are entertaining as feck.
If that’s not a “happy medium”, what is?
To be fair to Leeds they had one fully fit CB. In terms of risk-reward they are always going to run the risk of results like yesterday against top teams with much better players who can just win their individual duels and overpower them as a good bulk of the Leeds squad is still Championship standard. I think this style of football suits their players far more and is more likely to keep them up. Sitting back, creating nothing and losing 1-0 does not make any difference for Leeds.
If Leeds can add 2-3 players every season with this style of play I think it has far more pay off for them in terms of firmly reestablishing themselves as a top Premier League team. Playing like Burnley, Sheffield United, Stoke etc etc always catches up with you.
If Leeds can add 2-3 players every season with this style of play I think it has far more pay off for them in terms of firmly reestablishing themselves as a top Premier League team. Playing like Burnley, Sheffield United, Stoke etc etc always catches up with you.