I thought he was sitting on a bucket
Leeds (dirty thugs) discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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Oh, I don't disagree. I think he definitely needs to tweak something with the midfield - having said that, he never seems to do that with any of his teams, he just goes all out attack. It results in some great matches to watch but it's never the finished product in terms of it being a title-winning, all-conquering side. I have similar complaints with Gasperini's tactics to be honest, but at least that's slightly more structured when they have the ball and they do hold some sort of shape to stop from being completely overrun and rely on positional interchanging to somewhat keep it all together.
Anyway, my point is that he needs to fix plan A - coming up plan B is a bit more far-fetched.
Some credit is due to United as well to be fair. I think quite a few of our players have worked on being more press-resistant (particularly Fred and AWB because they were struggling with that some time back). A lot of teams press these days although not to this level of craziness and I think dealing with teams like that have really made us improve that aspect of our game. Exploiting space is something this United team can do in it's sleep - so in a way, we are one of the worst possible opponents for Leeds.
Only when he was drinking tea (was it?). I thought he was squatting for the rest of it.
He was until he finished his brew.
Can't imagine the outrage on here if Ole was to do that.
It might not be a title-winning side at the top division, but it is good enough to win the title at the second division. Again, I think this depends heavily on personnel. In the championship where the quality difference between teams aren't that big, Bielsa's tactics works well by levelling up his players against much of their peers. However, the issue comes when you are playing in the top division, where the quality difference between the top teams and the bottom teams are a lot more stark.
I think Bielsa is someone that can do consistently well if he is always managing teams at second division trying to get them promoted.
Not a great idea after losing a match 6-2.
https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/marcelo-bielsa-press-conference-live-19516212
https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/marcelo-bielsa-press-conference-live-19516212
“The players who unbalanced from the opponent were 17 Fred and 39 McTominay. It wasn't Rashford or Bruno Fernandes, nor James who participated mainly to defend. With this decision, Man Utd were superior to me in the way I imagined the game because it helped balance the defensive system of Manchester United and I didn't think the key would be with the two central midfielders. If you look at the game in detail the unbalance comes from those two players.”
Bielsa admitting he got spanked and surprised by Ole in this game.
Very honest analysis from him and shows what kind of man he is, pride and honesty.
He acknowledged he was beaten due to Ole’s tactics, our dynamic midfield two, and our individual qualities. These two midfield two are the one many fans don’t want to see in any match-day squad.
He pointed out Martial’s great contribution which many fans think totally opposite.
He indicated our flaw in defending set-pieces everyone knows.
I think they will do very well in the league and settle in the mid table this season. Next season, with some new additions of higher quality players to have depth of squad, they might be able to challenge the fifth or sixth position.
One thing for sure is that the second game against them this season will be a very tough one.
" Offensive production of both teams was pretty similar. We created 11 chances at goal, we scored two. Man Utd created eight chances at goal and scored six. They needed 14 chances to score six goals and we needed 13 to score two. The errors that Man Utd made in defence were similar or the same to the ones that Leeds made. It's probable to be sincere and to be fair, that the sensation of danger from Man Utd was higher than that of Leeds, but what is true is that we created danger in a proportional manner to Man Utd. They managed to finish off their chances better than we were able to. "
What's he referring to here? Says we had both 8 and 14 chances when we had 26 shots altogether and 14 on target so maybe the 14 refers to that? But then he says they had both 11 and 13 chances when they had 17 shots altogether and 4 on target.
It's not at all true that they created proportional danger the same as us, we battered them on xG. Seeing as we had less of the ball and more shots/easily a better aggregate of decent chances then on a per attack basis that's amplified even more.
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I am also confused by those numbers. But then, I feel it’s not a problem to judge his points. The discrepancy could come from translation issue or he has his own definition of metrics which is more likely the case. Metrics like shot on goal and shot on target are not enough to tell the whole picture.
They're not, but xG gets closer to that and we battered them on that as well. The point of it is to quantify the quality of chances.
It still doesn't quantify everything of course, as it's only shots actually taken but it gets a lot closer. A player could mess up an easy pass which would have led to a great chance or a player could choose not to shoot when he should have and neither would show on that metric.
Of course stats aren't necessarily everything too, but of the ones I've seen and having watched that match with my eyes I'm not really seeing where he's coming from there. Sounds a bit Arteta-esque to me.
Exactly.
He must be making those tweaks though. Lots of people in here are criticizing Bielsa for being completely uncompromising in his approach; but wasn't he caught sending someone to spy on an opponent's training in the Championship? Surely he isn't doing that for the juicy gossip.
Except his attacks are highly organized with a plan always in motion, and when they need to defense, all 11 players worked hard. Their defense line is way too high, intentionally to help improve their attacks more but their defense is more exposed and thus heavily reliant on individuals to bailed them out defensively which they don't really have. Actual level of their players is just terrible so their poor defense easily reflected that.
It would help if he actually had players in midfield, not just attackers and defenders
He did agree that our players have better quality too and he got fooled by Ole's tactics.
Am not a fan of his style at Leeds - he doesn't have the players to pull it off but is persisting with it. Some will call it admirable, but for me it's silly and will be their downfall.
In the same way that I've never had an issue with the likes of Burnley or Stoke when they would park the bus, they simply played to their strengths.
In the same way that I've never had an issue with the likes of Burnley or Stoke when they would park the bus, they simply played to their strengths.
If they stay up this season and then the fans would flock to see them he is going to get better players who would be better in implementing his ideas.
His analysis was spot on. The fact that he admitted he didn't anticipate Ole's tactics show that he is big enough to admit his mistake.
It's ridiculous of the media to suggest to his players that they should change their style of play and he was absolutely right to call out.
I prefer to watch Leeds over most teams now apart from United. They play football in an entirely different way that belonged to a different era. Can you imagine how entertaining football would be if everyone played so openly?
His analysis was spot on. The fact that he admitted he didn't anticipate Ole's tactics show that he is big enough to admit his mistake.
It's ridiculous of the media to suggest to his players that they should change their style of play and he was absolutely right to call out.
I prefer to watch Leeds over most teams now apart from United. They play football in an entirely different way that belonged to a different era. Can you imagine how entertaining football would be if everyone played so openly?
It would be quite entertaining for sure. But I think one of the reasons why Leeds are so fun to watch, is because they're a breath of fresh air. In a league, where most of the managers either park the bus or want to pin the opposition in the opponent's penalty area, this end to end style is a welcome change. If everyone started doing it, I feel the novelty would wear off.
One other reasons people appreciate Leeds is because their players attitude. I found it amazing that they were attacking with the same belief after being 4 goals down, and never stopped trying till the end. Fans generally appreciate players who work hard from start to the end, disregarding their lack of talent.
I know that as a United fan it's blasphemy but the current Leeds side is an entirely different side of the yester years. Leeds under Revie was dirty and kicked the hell out of every one. The fact they can play football made it worse why they have to be so dirty? I think it was to do with Revie himself rather than the club.
Now they are playing the way Biesla want to football. They are like the way I want to see football being played. It's beautiful to see that.
I hope they remain in the PL and play this kind of football.
Now they are playing the way Biesla want to football. They are like the way I want to see football being played. It's beautiful to see that.
I hope they remain in the PL and play this kind of football.
How can you coach a team in the PL on a daily basis when you can't speak English? Makes one wonder! Must be a huge limitation! Obviously he has people round him who interpret his messages over to his players. He shouts from the touchline. Question is do the players know what he's on about. One thing for sure his playing system puts pressure on his strikers. They must be top notch and I'm not sure they are.
I think his style of game play does put huge demand and pressure on the strikers, but in a different aspect. It’s not about scoring goals but a core part of attack construction and defense from the high up the field. It is quite similar to what Pep does in man city.
I still remember his athletic Bilbao did to us. Lorentz marked Vidic and chased him all the way to the side of the midfield and laid his whole weight on Vidic’s leg. As a result, Vidic suffered the ACL as I remembered.
The most dangerous part of their attack is to commit many players in attack. Quite often can overwhelm the opponent’s defense during the fast transition. Their players work hard to achieve that by running more than the opponents.
Not only the work rate and running more, they also have many different combinations of attack constructions. Thus, they just put a persistent pressure over the whole game.
For a season they only need to concentrate on league, I guess they can handle well mostly even though they have already depleted their back lines. If they get to Europa league, then, it will need a lot more squad depth.
As many other think here, I also like them stay in the league and it is a very positive style as compared to those low block teams. The league needs them and football needs them.
My opinion is that it is silly to think his style is silly. It is just more risky when the game plan is wrong and gets caught out. Otherwise, like they did against pool and man city, not silly at all.
With players with better ability his teams will play better. I really hope they stay up and he gets some better players. Especially a midfield player who can defend and a striker who is better than Bamford.
Those actually wondering why he gets so many plaudits, take one look at WBA today.
22% possession. 2 shots
They’ll lose anyway, Leeds might lose a game like this 5-1, but that brave playing style makes our game last week a hell of a match whereas this stinks the place out; yet they’ve already picked up 20 points this season, 13 more than the boring fecks at WBA.
Leeds/Biesla add sooo much entertainment to this division, that’s why he’s lauded.
22% possession. 2 shots
They’ll lose anyway, Leeds might lose a game like this 5-1, but that brave playing style makes our game last week a hell of a match whereas this stinks the place out; yet they’ve already picked up 20 points this season, 13 more than the boring fecks at WBA.
Leeds/Biesla add sooo much entertainment to this division, that’s why he’s lauded.
Over the moon I jinxed that 
Spoke too soon perhaps?
20 points is a very good effort from leeds considering we're not even at halfway point yet and they had a dodgy run not so long ago. Would take some slump for them to go down now considering 35 points was enough last year to stay up and might be a point or two less this season.
When people say his style will prove to be their downfall I'm wondering where people thought they'd finish, top 6?! They're comfortably on course for 11-13th place finish.
When people say his style will prove to be their downfall I'm wondering where people thought they'd finish, top 6?! They're comfortably on course for 11-13th place finish.
I wonder if they will splash the cash in this window. I don't feel they have enough quality to support the system they are trying to play & could use some additions. With the lack of gate revenue I'm not sure how much teams will be able to spend.
Interesting thread to read through. Do people really doubt that Bielsa can do wondrous things at the biggest clubs? He's unemployable because he's a loose cannon that might walk away at any given moment, not because his football has a cap on what it can achieve.
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I think the order of priority should be CM>LB>>>CF. Klich looks knackered and he's not the best at tracking back even in the best of times. Him and Rodrigo also tend to step on each others toes quite a lot. I think the cash was there for a young, hungry midfielder during the summer. We were going to sign Cuisance until he inexplicably failed his medical so we hopefully still have a wodge to spend in January.
This is just a sad post. Criticising for the sake of it.
And this post is even worse, commenting for the sake of it without adding any value.
And this post is even worse, commenting for the sake of it without adding any value.
Are you a Leeds fan? If not then it is their problem if they go down. For me, and I would say most neutrals, they play extremely attractive football. Certainly a lot more attractive than Spurs, WBA, Stoke and Burnley. I have no issue with other teams parking the bus. As for Sam, it is not only the bus but he parked even the train too to stop Liverpool and he got a point out of them. Kudos to him. There is not one style to play football.
In my opinion, as compared with the parking bus strategy, there is a mental and psychological advantage to play the Bielsa way.
With lesser players, the Bielsa way is positive while parking the bus makes the players suffering and enduring the pressure in most portions of the games.
No matter which way to play, there is the same goal/prize which is to earn points. I am wondering how long those players can suffer the psychologically negative workload induced by the negative playing style. Especially for the team not struggling for relegation, like spurs, I just don’t think it can last too long until reaching a real dip and a disaster.
The Bielsa way is about that they want to match and dominate the opponents by running more and work harder even though in case they might have less-talented players. Roy Keane must prefer that.
With lesser players, the Bielsa way is positive while parking the bus makes the players suffering and enduring the pressure in most portions of the games.
No matter which way to play, there is the same goal/prize which is to earn points. I am wondering how long those players can suffer the psychologically negative workload induced by the negative playing style. Especially for the team not struggling for relegation, like spurs, I just don’t think it can last too long until reaching a real dip and a disaster.
The Bielsa way is about that they want to match and dominate the opponents by running more and work harder even though in case they might have less-talented players. Roy Keane must prefer that.
Not a Leeds fan but then this is a football forum, right?
Agree it's attractive football but am more the pragmatic type.
Good game management yesterday. Sat back and relinquished possession to Burnley in the 2nd half and saw out the game 1-0. Getting battered 6-2 by us () may have been as blessing in disguise for them as otherwise, I doubt he would have been as defensive yesterday, which may have made them drop points. Think the players are happy with it as well, as Bamford came out after the game and said it’s good to win 1-0 sometimes.
) may have been as blessing in disguise for them as otherwise, I doubt he would have been as defensive yesterday, which may have made them drop points. Think the players are happy with it as well, as Bamford came out after the game and said it’s good to win 1-0 sometimes.It is not attractive to you then obviously you would not watch them and watch Spurs, Burnley or Stoke. It is for them to decide if it's the style they want to play or not irrespective of the results.
I never said it's not attractive, on the contrary... Who am I to decide on Bielsa's style!
All I did was express an opinion, not sure why posters have to get all funny when other posters have different opinions.
Anyway, I think that's my post limit for the day as a newbie.