Leon Goretzka

strongwalker

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A key to Bayerns midfield dominance vs PSG in CL Final 2020. Any thought?

He doesn't have that flashy skill or move, but his anticipation, quick thinking, and drive are very impressive. A typical German player, in a very positive way. A free transfer from Schalke also.

I'm expecting big things from him in coming years.
Some say he's got the potential to be one of the top box-to-box midfielders. I was kinda meh when we hired him but he won me over quickly. Everytime i watch the lad play he does his job, nothing flashy but rock solid. No real weaknesses.
Team needs such players. How well he will do without Thiago remains to be seen, Thiago is possibly the best #8 in terms of ball control and passing under pressure as could be seen in the final first half.
 

harms

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I want to look like him, what should I do?
Lewandowski is the original body freak that got everyone at Bayern obsessed with intense physical training. His (or, rather, his wife’s) training program is more or less known, without too much details, of course.
 

kouroux

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He may not be juicing tbh. It all depends on how fast he got this big. This and confinement could have helped too with a player doing more intense workouts with less cardio sessions
 

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Aren't there all sorts of side effects to heavy steroid (ab)use, like problems controlling aggression? Seems like a dumb idea especially for defense oriented players.

As long as Thomas Müller doesn't grow Henry Cavill's body suddenly, I'm not convinced there is something unusual for top tier football going on here.
 

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Mona Nemmer must have left her secrets stashed in a toilet at the Allianz somewhere. Have to say though we took their nutrition expert and there’s been nothing but good things said about her in her time here. Having the best of the best in each field can give you the small advantages that make a difference at the top level.
 

do.ob

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Mona Nemmer must have left her secrets stashed in a toilet at the Allianz somewhere. Have to say though we took their nutrition expert and there’s been nothing but good things said about her in her time here. Having the best of the best in each field can give you the small advantages that make a difference at the top level.
Yes, it's really time to talk about Liverpool.
 

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Hahaha. People actually legit saying that he must be on PEDs.

Hes a pro athlete, who is obviously a consummate professional. He obviously eats properly, trains properly, rests properly. He’s not overly stacked and in pretty good shape, but he is in the type of shape I would expect from someone who is paid to be in shape.
 

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Yes, it's really time to talk about Liverpool.
It’s more a compliment to the excellent work Bayern do both on and off the field in all departments, but take it what way you will.

As for Goretzka he’s a great player and it’ll be interesting to see how he develops further.
 

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What is the point in arms like those for a footballer?

I mean, even for a goalkeeper it seems unneeded.

Throw-ins, maybe?
 

trailertrash

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Body proposition, you don't want to look like a fking tool, you need balance between torso, shoulders, arms etc.
 

arthurka

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Maybe Pep has his own team doctor?

Anyway. That's how professional Club should operate. Managers can come and go, and it doesn't affect the Club policy of targeted players. The Club have prepared and done the groundwork years ahead.
Yes he does and Bayern had theirs let's just say it didn't end well.

I fully agree with a stark difference between a well run football club and a club run by a banker.

I don't think he was going to sign for anyone but Bayern. It's not like other clubs didn't try, the links with Barcelona were particularly persistent and given that he left on a free eventually I'm sure half the European elite would've loved to sign him. The lad preferred to stay in Germany, Bayern did their homework/tapping up, so he was theirs alone.

I think all this steroid "debate" is a bit comical to be honest. First in the sense that people actually think they can judge this from fotos and secondly, because it's naive to think that this isn't a systemic issue, that other clubs and players are clean.
Like I said there is a 90% chance if Bayern getting their German talents.
Steroids well it's sports so you could argue that roids go hand in hand with it.
And Bayern got sucked into that debate when PED sorry Pep arrived.

https://www.bavarianfootballworks.c...n-munich-germany-national-team-robben-boateng

https://www.bbc.com/sport/amp/cycling/49822761

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/barcelona-vs-manchester-city-pep-guardiola-ramon-cugat-a7368341.html?amp

https://www.velonews.com/news/analy...nter-of-operations-in-armstrongs-doping-ring/

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/01/...-operation-puerto-doping-case-in-cycling.html

Funny how Spain went from being a good but not great sports nation to become dominant nation in almost any sport.. Football, Tennis, Handball, Basketball you name it. And funny how the biggest doping case in the world behind the Russian scandal was put in a closed drawer by the Spanish government.
 

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Müller-Wohlfart is a quack, but regardless of his practices: He's either being stupid or willfully ignorant when he says: " It would make no sense to bulk up in football [with PEDs]—the muscles would become too heavy."
As if the point of PEDs was to "bulk up". The sports with the most doping-scandals, sports like cycling or cross country skiing, are all about endurance and being able to go harder for a longer period of time. Anyone trying to tell you that football players wouldn't profit from being able to train harder, regenerate quicker and endure pyhsical stress for longer is a bullshit merchant.

It'd be naive to think that top athletes, no matter the sport, aren't trying to get an edge all over the world.
 

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Müller-Wohlfart is a quack, but regardless of his practices: He's either being stupid or willfully ignorant when he says: " It would make no sense to bulk up in football [with PEDs]—the muscles would become too heavy."
As if the point of PEDs was to "bulk up". The sports with the most doping-scandals, sports like cycling or cross country skiing, are all about endurance and being able to go harder for a longer period of time. Anyone trying to tell you that football players wouldn't profit from being able to train harder, regenerate quicker and endure pyhsical stress for longer is a bullshit merchant.

It'd be naive to think that top athletes, no matter the sport, aren't trying to get an edge all over the world.
Sammer said once said something similarly stupid (along the lines of: why do we need blood tests when nobody is doping) and I wouldn't take him for either naive or stupid. Everyone just pretends that football is somehow the only sport where doping is neither used nor useful.
 

Pace Abuser

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I want to look like him, what should I do?
If this is a serious question; then you need to start Calisthenics. The vast majority of athletes have very little weight training and majority Calisthenics. Add a nutritional plan.
 

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Another pic below from September 2019. He's completely natty, this 3-5 month transformation is such a weird myth.

That Greg Youtube guy is a total fraud. Using photo's from 2018 and saying it's a 4 month transformation thing. Then saying it all in a hyper manner. And such a typical ignorant American again, listen to him pronouncing Schalke or Bayern. Can't listen to him for more than a minute.

If I were Leon Goretzka I would sue him. The like bar and the comments are all buying Greg's bullshit, so it's time to intervene.
 

strongwalker

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Aren't there all sorts of side effects to heavy steroid (ab)use, like problems controlling aggression? Seems like a dumb idea especially for defense oriented players.

As long as Thomas Müller doesn't grow Henry Cavill's body suddenly, I'm not convinced there is something unusual for top tier football going on here.
Müller-Wohlfart is a quack, but regardless of his practices: He's either being stupid or willfully ignorant when he says: " It would make no sense to bulk up in football [with PEDs]—the muscles would become too heavy."
As if the point of PEDs was to "bulk up". The sports with the most doping-scandals, sports like cycling or cross country skiing, are all about endurance and being able to go harder for a longer period of time. Anyone trying to tell you that football players wouldn't profit from being able to train harder, regenerate quicker and endure pyhsical stress for longer is a bullshit merchant.

It'd be naive to think that top athletes, no matter the sport, aren't trying to get an edge all over the world.
Several points in here, PED effects, Reaction of the football authorities and establishment, etc.

preamble:
by no means are only endurance sports notorious for PED abuse, although of course they are prominent; Power-hungry sports like martial arts of all sorts, weightlifting, etc are possibly even more notorious and there's been countless cases. In general, PED abuse is more common in sports that put physical attributes above skill. Given cyclings exposure to public and past scandals, one could say that the quality level and frequency of testing especially in cycling is currently higher than in any other sport today. Even amateur cyclists can only laugh about the state of pro football PED checking. Now go ahead and count the money involved. One could run a Pro cycling team on the money a 2nd league team spends on 1-2 players per year.

Müller-Wolfahrt: The fact that MW associates PED with stuff to "bulk up" shows he's not really into the matter, bacuse it is BS. Which kinda speaks for him but also is odd because his career started as assistant to a now notorious witch doctor, but whatever... Fact is, even though he has many adversaries if not enemies in the trade and accusations have been made frequently, none of these proved to have any substance as of today.

There are PED for everything, bulk up, endurance, max power, regeneration... Many have combined effects, as the more complex modern stuff, which is why some of them are used in a carefully scheduled combination because the effects support each other. See "Icarus" on Netflix for examples, its about cycling but that part applies wherever.

The denial about the use of PED in football by everyone involved in the business is a different matter. IMO football is "too big" as to let a scandal of cycling/festina/dr fuentes proportions ever see daylight, because the impact would be too grave right up to open civil war in some countries :)

Goretzka and Steroids: Steroids are just about the most easy PED to prove in a simple test. That and the fact it only marginally helps to be more bulky on a football field means he would have to be very stupid indeed to risk that to look nicer for the ladies. He doesn't strike me as being exceptionally stupid.
 

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Aren't there all sorts of side effects to heavy steroid (ab)use, like problems controlling aggression? Seems like a dumb idea especially for defense oriented players.

As long as Thomas Müller doesn't grow Henry Cavill's body suddenly, I'm not convinced there is something unusual for top tier football going on here.
The higher the doses and the more vicious side effects. If he was dosing, I don't think his side effects would reach what you did. You see what you described in huge bodybuilders mostly and it's rare too
 

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Müller-Wolfahrt: The fact that MW associates PED with stuff to "bulk up" shows he's not really into the matter, bacuse it is BS.
Or, you know, he just says what he thinks sounds good and does know more than he lets on. I don't think any medical professional should or could be this ignorant about the subject.
We are in complete agreement otherwise (although I don't agree that MMA/Boxing falls under the "physical attributes before skill" category in the same way that cycling does).
 

kouroux

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If this is a serious question; then you need to start Calisthenics. The vast majority of athletes have very little weight training and majority Calisthenics. Add a nutritional plan.
It would be a good start then use extra weight with calisthenics and obviously squats/DL/Lunges for legs.
 

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Let's be clear for a moment. This isn't a completely unattainable physique for a natural athlete to have. This looks like a combination of a great diet (you'd expect that in an athlete), good muscle building/lifting regime (very possible in an athlete), low body fat level to emphasise those muscles (you'd expect an athlete to have lower body fat than the average person), good lighting in the photo, posing a certain way to emphasise certain muscles (he's tensing the shit out of his left arm in the photo, which is clearly what he wants to show off into the image).

I don't look at that image and instantly think he's taking something. Looks like he's blessed with great genetics, a great training regime, great diet and great work ethic. Obviously, if he was a twig last week and suddenly looks like this today, then...that's a different story. You still need all of those characteristics anyway. Just simply taking steroids won't instantly turn you into The Rock. You still need to train fecking hard, maintain a great diet and be consistent. Help or not, the guy is clearly a hard worker.
 

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Or, you know, he just says what he thinks sounds good and does know more than he lets on. I don't think any medical professional should or could be this ignorant about the subject.
We are in complete agreement otherwise (although I don't agree that MMA/Boxing falls under the "physical attributes before skill" category in the same way that cycling does).
youre right and as opposed to cycling i have no own experience whatsoever. But i heard once that in fighting (in this case wrestling/olympic) weight and power were "the ultimate trump cards" which would always win in the end.
 

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weight and power were "the ultimate trump cards" which would always win in the end.
Utlimately true, but that's why there are weight classes and there are doping cases from the highest to the lowest.
If you need proof that physical attributes/power can be overcome by sheer skill (and if want to spend an evening discovering a truly phenomenal boxer) check out Vasili Lomachenko. :D
 

padr81

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Let's be clear for a moment. This isn't a completely unattainable physique for a natural athlete to have. This looks like a combination of a great diet (you'd expect that in an athlete), good muscle building/lifting regime (very possible in an athlete), low body fat level to emphasise those muscles (you'd expect an athlete to have lower body fat than the average person), good lighting in the photo, posing a certain way to emphasise certain muscles (he's tensing the shit out of his left arm in the photo, which is clearly what he wants to show off into the image).

I don't look at that image and instantly think he's taking something. Looks like he's blessed with great genetics, a great training regime, great diet and great work ethic. Obviously, if he was a twig last week and suddenly looks like this today, then...that's a different story. You still need all of those characteristics anyway. Just simply taking steroids won't instantly turn you into The Rock. You still need to train fecking hard, maintain a great diet and be consistent. Help or not, the guy is clearly a hard worker.
Exactly the guy is not huge by any stretch. I would say what he's done is quite possible naturally with good genetics but not for everyone by an stretch (as most of us don't have those genetics).
Putting on 15-20lb of solid muscle is no easy feat for a footballer even over the 2 years or so Goretska did it. Honestly I think he's juicing just because I think 95% of top footballers are especially at the big clubs. I don't think he's doing anything that other top pro's aren't, just maybe training harder.

All the mother feckers are on some sort of Ped's, there is too much money involved for them not to be.
 

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Exactly the guy is not huge by any stretch. I would say what he's done is quite possible naturally with good genetics but not for everyone by an stretch (as most of us don't have those genetics).
Putting on 15-20lb of solid muscle is no easy feat for a footballer even over the 2 years or so Goretska did it. Honestly I think he's juicing just because I think 95% of top footballers are especially at the big clubs. I don't think he's doing anything that other top pro's aren't, just maybe training harder.

All the mother feckers are on some sort of Ped's, there is too much money involved for them not to be.
They're all on something. I know they get injured all the time and miss games but the average top-level footballer plays 3 high-intensity matches for 38 weeks of the year for ten+ years. They're professional athletes but still.

Can a human body exert that kind of physical effort on such a consistent basis without some form of supplement?
 

roonster09

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Let's be clear for a moment. This isn't a completely unattainable physique for a natural athlete to have
Yeah, he looks in good shape but there are many players who were in awesome shape.

Rio after retirement.


 

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They're all on something. I know they get injured all the time and miss games but the average top-level footballer plays 3 high-intensity matches for 38 weeks of the year for ten+ years. They're professional athletes but still.

Can a human body exert that kind of physical effort on such a consistent basis without some form of supplement?
Yes probably. The "all on it" thing is kind of ridiculous, not everyone in the game at the top will want to do it, same with cycling, when they were "all on it" to extreme levels, some definitely weren't and yeah were coming in journeyman places, but proving that it can be done at that level.

I don't really see fine physiques with definite juice either, and most pictures above are just fine physiques, they have the money for a nutritionist, the high class trainers and support. I noticed a mega difference in my body when I merely did weights for 4-5 times a week for about 2 months without all that, just rocking up at PureGym when I had an hour to spend at night/early morning.... obviously the gains get smaller over time, but I didn't really follow anything, just wanted to compliment my cycling/running with some weight training.

Compare this to what WWE wrestlers used to look like after being out with injury and then miraculously coming back, ultra bulk(er than before) and with great picturesque body to boot - though obviously these are serial users. But some of the differences in the short term give you the idea.

If you think it can't be done in a short time .... boxers tell a different story, and have done for decades. But I guess it depends just how corrupt you think any sport is.
 

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Yes probably. The "all on it" thing is kind of ridiculous, not everyone in the game at the top will want to do it, same with cycling, when they were "all on it" to extreme levels, some definitely weren't and yeah were coming in journeyman places, but proving that it can be done at that level.

I don't really see fine physiques with definite juice either, and most pictures above are just fine physiques, they have the money for a nutritionist, the high class trainers and support. I noticed a mega difference in my body when I merely did weights for 4-5 times a week for about 2 months without all that, just rocking up at PureGym when I had an hour to spend at night/early morning.... obviously the gains get smaller over time, but I didn't really follow anything, just wanted to compliment my cycling/running with some weight training.

Compare this to what WWE wrestlers used to look like after being out with injury and then miraculously coming back, ultra bulk(er than before) and with great picturesque body to boot - though obviously these are serial users. But some of the differences in the short term give you the idea.

If you think it can't be done in a short time .... boxers tell a different story, and have done for decades. But I guess it depends just how corrupt you think any sport is.
Its not physiques imho, its the level of atleticisim, stamina, strength in the modern game. You compare football now to the 90's and its a different game by miles. I know training and sport science has vastly improved but man these guys are too fit. I genuinely think modern Liverpool or Bayern would muller any 90's team by a cricket score such is the difference.
 

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Whatever they are putting in the water back in Munich, we need to get the same shit.

If it is just hard work, our players and staff should be ashamed. They probably get paid much better.

Watching their celebratory videos, pretty much all of the Bayern team look ripped as feck. And its not just a wasteful aesthetic bulking for the Instagram pictures. It's clearly focused to maximize football performance.