Let's talk about 18-5. Does it have any meaning or worth to you?

[sammsky1]

Yeah you were unfortunate to come up against a peak Barcelona, but there was a fair slice of fortune in your 1999 final win (not the late goals, but Bayern twice hitting the woodwork before that) and obviously the 2008 final went to penalties and could have gone either way. For me the teams that should have won more Champions League titles are Valencia (lost two successive finals on penalties), Atletico Madrid (runners-up three times and could have won them all) and Juventus (lost six finals).

juve lost 6 finals? Never knew that. Ouch - the cumulative agony from that must be virtuallly unbearable.

Really hope they can break this voodoo on Saturday and do over Madrid

 

[Robertd0803]

The fact they have 5 when we should have at least that bugs the life out of me. I hope to Christ we surpass it at some stage because that's the only thing they can crow about the stupid cnuts.

 

[Sarni]

We don't have enough CL titles but I don't care about how many Liverpool have. Barcelona and Bayern have 5 each and we should have similar amount. Then again, Juventus only have 2 and they've been one of the best clubs in Europe for what, 40 years?

 

[redman5]

True.
Don't forget the Busby Babes though, they surely were denied winning a few European Cups.

Posted on The Caf a couple of months back that my Dad reckoned the Busby Babes would have won at least 2 European Cups - maybe more - had it not been for the Munich tragedy.

 

[Sky1981]

The best way to do this is wow stat weight style

Premier league : 1.0
Cl : 1.3
Fa cup : 0.7
League cup 0.4
Charity shield 0.15
Etc

For instace our 20-3 would equal to 23.9 whereas liverpool 18-5 would equal 24.5

So we do miss out by 0.6

Off course the weight of each cup is still up for discussion

 

[Revan]

Would take 18-5 over 20-3 to be honest. Always thought that the main European Cup is more important than the main domestic trophy.

Saying that, the thing is that in all my life, we have been miles more successful than Liverpool. And that is all I care. History is important, but I didn't live in the eighties when they were winning everything while we were in deep shit.

 

[sammsky1]

The best way to do this is wow stat weight style

Premier league : 1.0
Cl : 1.3
Fa cup : 0.7
League cup 0.4
Charity shield 0.15
Etc

For instace our 20-3 would equal to 23.9 whereas liverpool 18-5 would equal 24.5

So we do miss out by 0.6

Off course the weight of each cup is still up for discussion

Scoring looks good except I think CL Should be 1.5. It's just so hard to win. Which adds to liverpools advantage in this method.

 

[rocks13]

Nottingham Forest have won more European Cups than Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea and Man City combined. I don't think even the most devoted Forest fan would claim that makes them bigger or more successful than any of those clubs.

 

[Fortitude]

It's exactly the same condition Juve has vs Milan in Italy. Juve won more leagues and more trophies overall but Milan has been more successful in Europe. That won't negate that overall Juve is the most successful team in the country. Same for us.

Well at least the difference between Liverpool and us are only 2 CLs, not 5 in case of Juve-Milan.

I'm not Italian or have any inside track on how they see it, but for me, AC Milan are only behind Real Madrid in terms of European giants, and have a claim on the best club side of all-time. They've also made a legacy for Baresi, Maldini, Gullit, Van Basten and Rijkaard because of their exploits in the European Cup that Juventus can't get near.

For me AC Milan are a tier above Juventus despite having less domestic titles.

The Premier League was a new era for English football. Liverplol have never won it so how people can compare them to United when United won it 13 times is beyond me.

Only Liverpool fans think there's a comparison. TRUE United fans accept reality and realise that they haven't been near us in terms of success in over 25 years. It's a complete non-argument in this day and age.

If United weren't still winning trophies, maybe you'd have a point but even now they're still doing better than Liverpool. We finished behind them in the league cause Mourinho threw the remaining games and gambled on the Europa League and we are already ahead of them in next years Champions League.

Sorry, no, that's simply not true. It's either testament to them or failure on our part that we, despite all this success, are still behind them in European Cups. You can't have it both ways.

As others have said, us being behind the sides we believe ourselves to be peers with by 2 CL's is a failing on our part. Liverpool are still not an afterthought because of their former glories that still loom large.

Would take 18-5 over 20-3 to be honest. Always thought that the main European Cup is more important than the main domestic trophy.

Saying that, the thing is that in all my life, we have been miles more successful than Liverpool. And that is all I care. History is important, but I didn't live in the eighties when they were winning everything while we were in deep shit.

Very honest of you. I'm sure more share the sentiment.

 

[JustAFan]

The best way to do this is wow stat weight style

Premier league : 1.0
Cl : 1.3
Fa cup : 0.7
League cup 0.4
Charity shield 0.15
Etc

For instace our 20-3 would equal to 23.9 whereas liverpool 18-5 would equal 24.5

So we do miss out by 0.6

Off course the weight of each cup is still up for discussion

For me your home league has to weigh as much as the CL. Yes you can be in the CL without winning your league, but your national league is where you live. But no right or wrong answer here, just a matter of opinions.

 

[WackyWengerWorld]

By scousers I hope you're including Everton who were denied 85/86 and 87/88 campaigns.

Not really, while they'd be there I don't know if they were good enough to win it. Although I suppose given Villa won it why not. Liverpool fans made a banner about Steaua winning it in '86 to rub salt into the wound.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

For me your home league has to weigh as much as the CL. Yes you can be in the CL without winning your league, but your national league is where you live. But no right or wrong answer here, just a matter of opinions.

Why I have always thought winning the league was more important.

 

[Sky1981]

For me your home league has to weigh as much as the CL. Yes you can be in the CL without winning your league, but your national league is where you live. But no right or wrong answer here, just a matter of opinions.

It's just a coefficient to put things to bed, at least there's quantifiable numbers we can decide on.

I assume it'll be different and there'll be like handicap for weaker league such as scotland where celtic won it every year, but in us vs liverpool case i think it doesnt matter.

Fwiw cl will always be more prestigious than home league, many teams dominate their league but went limp in cl.

 

[WackyWengerWorld]

The Premier League was a new era for English football. Liverplol have never won it so how people can compare them to United when United won it 13 times is beyond me.

Other than clubs receiving more money and having to pay sky rather than watch games live and free on ITV this is utter nonsense.

 

[RobinLFC]

Winning the league and losing the CL final, or winning the CL and be runner-up in the league - I'd chose the former, although our long league drought probably has something to do with that. Another CL to add would be very sweet as well, so it's a hard choice and arguments can be made for both sides.

I'd rather 18-5 than 20-3 though, just because I think winning the CL is a lot harder to achieve, not because it favors Liverpool's situation.

 

[JustAFan]

Why I have always thought winning the league was more important.

Me too, to me the CL is always that extra competition we are in. Granted a well know, highly prized one, but Manchester United would still exist if the CL was never created. Without the home leagues, then no Manchester United or Liverpoll FC or Chelsea or Arsenal, etc.

 

[Uniqueusername52119]

It's a bit like arguing ' my grandad shot more people in the war than your grandad, therefore our family is better at war than yours'. It's largely irrelevant, it's history. Liverpool and Manchester United are barely comparable as clubs in any meaningful way at this point in time.

 

[Sandikan]

The fact they have 5 when we should have at least that bugs the life out of me. I hope to Christ we surpass it at some stage because that's the only thing they can crow about the stupid cnuts.

They got 4 of them in one spell. That's the bit that's irritating.
We could and should have got more in our spell as a dominant force. Not just the Barcelona defeats, but that year with Rafael's red and Rooney's form/injury. We could have won it that year. But coulda woulda shoulda!

 

[Sandikan]

Winning the league and losing the CL final, or winning the CL and be runner-up in the league - I'd chose the former, although our long league drought probably has something to do with that. Another CL to add would be very sweet as well, so it's a hard choice and arguments can be made for both sides.

I'd rather 18-5 than 20-3 though, just because I think winning the CL is a lot harder to achieve, not because it favors Liverpool's situation.

Winning your own league should always be the main aim. Cups are always on a knife edge of key moments where it can be over in an instant. Leagues tend to reward the best team.

 

[shamans]

It kind of does. I thought our 2008 era team had another Euro title in them.