Lionel Messi is OFFICIALLY the Greatest Player of all Time (CONFIRMED OFFICIAL)

Ishdalar

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That's my point, I wasn't trying to single out this year as an anomaly or anything, I was saying that the teams you face en route to the world Cup final are nowhere near as strong as the teams you'd likely face to get to the Champions league final, it's nowhere near as high a level
But the difference in quality and performances between the top 6 teams in the UCL and the 20th ranked team is bigger than the difference between rank 6 in Fifa and rank 20, Qatar were the worst squad of the World Cup, but they weren't "Viktoria Plzen on a group with Bayern, Inter and Barcelona" bad.

Belgium can be ranked 1st but they can't sign 4 defenders to challenge for the World Cup, Brazil or Germany might have a stacked team but they're not drilled to play together 9 months a year.

There's exceptions like France who have been working with the same squad and tactics for almost 5 years now, but in a World Cup you don't get more than 2 or 3 teams that have months worth of training over the last 4 year cycle, the World Cup is the stage on which a single player can make the biggest difference because tactical anarchy runs rampant. South American teams don't face Mbappe and Griezmann 2 to 4 times per year giving them time to adjust, there's no room to screw a game and have a second 90 minutes at home with your fans support.

The world cup turns great players into legends and unknown players into cult heroes because it's the biggest equalizer in the sport, there's no oil money, unfair TV deals or time to steer things around in the middle of a tournament by hiring a new coach or getting extra players in January, you play with what you get, for 3 to 7 games and 90 minutes the 22 players in the pitch are the less prepared they'll ever be on the 60+ games they'll play that year.
 

jm99

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Agreed but even in the CL you do generally get a weak RO16, and sometimes a weak opponent in the QF.

Teams often do get cannon fodder essentially and it's generally the SF and the Final that's the hard tie unless you're very unlucky.
I mean in real's three in a row campaign their knockout runs were

15/16: roma, wolfsburg, man City, atletico
16/17: napoli bayern, atletico, juventus
17/18: psg, juventus, bayern, Liverpool.

The 15/16 run was somewhat easier though I'd say City and atletico were still tougher sides than any 2 you'd face in a usual world Cup run in, but the other 2 seasons are orders of magnitude better sides than any world Cup route to the final you'll ever see
 

genardk

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Of course they do it. How many years have you been around this Forum? The trick is always the same. Starts with playmaking, then switches to dribbling, you show him dribbling when he was younger it wasn't dribbling, it was showboating, then when he stopped showboating it was pace merchant. But ok, they made their day on Sunday let them be happy one time in their life...
You have a lot of honest and good to read posts about Ronaldo, but the above is pure BS unfortunately.. Having a couple clips of Ronaldo having great dribbles or having a clip of him having a great assist does not make him a top dribbler or playmaker or creator or passer etc. etc.

Passing skills: Is Ronaldo a top 10 player ever? Nope
Creativity: Is Ronaldo a top 10 player ever? Nope
Technique: Is Ronaldo a top 10 player ever? Nope (not even top 100 tbh)
Dribbling: Is Ronaldo a top 10 player ever? Nope
Vision, ball control: Is Ronaldo a top 10 player ever? Nope
Goal scoring: Is Ronaldo a top 10 payer ever? Hell, yeah..

I am trying to simplify things as much as possible so that you get the point as you seem to be confused on what people try to say..
 
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Red the Bear

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Find me any final where you play 3-4 great teams on the route to the final.

Most groups are comprised of 2 underdogs, 2 strong teams.

Then you're often unlucky if you face more than one "strong high ranked" team on the route to the final if you top your group.

Knockouts, RO16, QF, SF, Final

Brazil 1994
: USA, Netherlands, Sweden, Italy

France 1998:
Paraguay, Italy, Croatia, Brazil

Brazil 2002:
Belgium, England, Turkey, Germany

Italy in 2006
: Australia, Ukraine, Germany, then France in the final.

Spain 2010: Portugal, Paraguay, Germany, Netherlands (so this was harder BUT its because of where Portugal finished in their group)

Germany 2014: Chile, France, Brazil, Argentina (Again harder teams)

France 2018: Argentina, Uruguay, Belgium, Croatia

Generally you face 2 strong teams on the way to the final, or sometimes just one.

This year was about shocks, Croatia beat Brazil which was largely unexpected.
To be pedantic i raise you 1982's Italy.
A great polish side plus Germany, Brazil and Argentina.
Speaks for itself.
 

TheNewEra

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To be pedantic i raise you 1982's Italy.
A great polish side plus Germany, Brazil and Argentina.
Speaks for itself.
That's what you'd call an outlier though.

It's not the norm.

Generally speaking, the average case which is what you expect is that you get a weak RO16 and a slightly stronger QF. That's without major upsets like a team non-performing in the group stages.

Major tournaments (World Cups, CLs, Euros etc) are set up this way because they want big finals, big semi finals.

It's supposed to culminate in a big match, if it was assigned by a completely random process then we'd have mixed results where someone could get a completely stacked route to the final.

It's the reason we have rankings, we have seeds and pots that distinguish teams when the groups are drafted.

The whole process is supposed to work that QFs, SFs and Finals are the way they are. RO16 less so, and it's a coin toss in the QFs if you get a strong team or not.
 

Red the Bear

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That's what you'd call an outlier though.

It's not the norm.
Yeah, just being pedantic :D

Anyway you can only beat what's in front of you and Argentina did just that so it shouldn't be a debate and you are right.
 
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genardk

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That's my point, I wasn't trying to single out this year as an anomaly or anything, I was saying that the teams you face en route to the world Cup final are nowhere near as strong as the teams you'd likely face to get to the Champions league final, it's nowhere near as high a level
How does that affect the challenge of winning the WC?

If anything, WC is more balanced with multiple teams seen as favorites to win. I do not think that there is any difference in terms of how hard it is to win a WC or a CL.. And teams from smaller football nations have way more chance to make surprises in the WC than CL, see Morocco..
 

TheNewEra

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Yeah, just being pedantic :D

Anyway you can only beat what's in front of you and Argentina did just that so it shouldn't be a debate and your right.
100% and it was the cup of upsets really, the likes of Morocco and Croatia.
 

jm99

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How does that affect the challenge of winning the WC?

If anything, WC is more balanced with multiple teams seen as favorites to win. I do not think that there is any difference in terms of how hard it is to win a WC or a CL.. And teams from smaller football nations have way more chance to make surprises in the WC than CL, see Morocco..
Well I mean it should be obvious, if Messi gets to the CL final with psg this year he's likely to play against the best defenders in the world to get there, was that statement even close to true for this world cup?
 

the_cliff

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I mean in real's three in a row campaign their knockout runs were

15/16: roma, wolfsburg, man City, atletico
16/17: napoli bayern, atletico, juventus
17/18: psg, juventus, bayern, Liverpool.

The 15/16 run was somewhat easier though I'd say City and atletico were still tougher sides than any 2 you'd face in a usual world Cup run in, but the other 2 seasons are orders of magnitude better sides than any world Cup route to the final you'll ever see
I don't see your point here. Of course the UCL would be tougher, you've got the best talents out of all international teams playing for around 10 Clubs...

You also get a much better team around you in the UCL as well, PSG for example have Brazil's, Argentina's and France's best attacking player on the same team...

The world cup is much more evened out in terms of talent (except Brazil, France and Portugal)
 

jm99

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I don't see your point here. Of course the UCL would be tougher, you've got the best talents out of all international teams playing for around 10 Clubs...

You also get a much better team around you in the UCL as well, PSG for example have Brazil's, Argentina's and France's best attacking player on the same team...
That is my point, the Champions league is tougher, you play against the best players in the world
 

genardk

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Well I mean it should be obvious, if Messi gets to the CL final with psg this year he's likely to play against the best defenders in the world to get there, was that statement even close to true for this world cup?
Yeah, but, he is also playing with a superior team, PSG, so things balance out, did you consider that?
He is playing next to Mbappe and Neymar not Mc Allister or De Paul..

The point is in the CL, after QFs, in general, you have one super team vs another super team..
In the WC, after QFs, in general, you have one strong team vs another strong team..
Therefore, CL & WC more or less equally challenging because it is the relative strength difference between two teams that matters..

You are assuming Messi is facing Bayern, City etc. with the Argentina teammates..
 

jm99

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You also have the best players in the world on your team as well, that's my point...
Yeah, so it's a higher level of football, in club football the cream rises to the top and he best players play on the best teams, which is surely a better judge of quality than playing with, don't train with regularly, and in the case of Ronaldo and Messi at world cups, have had some horrible managers to deal with, it doesn't really happen in club football
 

RacingClub

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Messi gets to the CL final with psg this year he's likely to play against the best defenders in the world to get there, was that statement even close to true for this world cup?
Well he's played against VVD/Ake, Gvardiol and Varane/Upamecano/ Konate in the Quarters, Semi and Final respectively.
 

jm99

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Yeah, but, he is also playing with a superior team, PSG, so things balance out, did you consider that?
He is playing next to Mbappe and Neymar not Mc Allister or De Paul..

The point is in the CL, after QFs, in general, you have one super team vs another super team..
In the WC, after QFs, in general, you have one strong team vs another strong team..

You are assuming Messi is facing Bayern, City etc. with the Argentina teammates..
They don't balance out though, Maradona would never have been Barcelona manager like in 2010, Ronaldo would never have played under Santos or Queiroz at club level. Playing with the best players and against the best players is clearly the highest level of football,
 

Ishdalar

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No, the baseless assertion that Pele would walk into any elite team of the modern era - you've provided no evidence beyond endless argumentum ad populum.

My assertion is that it's more difficult to be dominant in this era than in the 60s and I have stated my reasons for my position many times - namely:

1) Football was demonstrably slower and poorer quality in the 1960s. Even if we take the much vaunted Brazil 1970 you mentioned; you can watch the full stream of the Brazil vs. Italy final here - just look at the amount of misplaced passes, the slow pace, the defending, the positioning, the space, the loose touches, the shooting, the goalkeeping. At 7m30, Rivelino takes a corner and it nearly hits the other corner flag :lol:. It's objectively worse than what we see now at international level and only tedious football hipsters would say otherwise.​
2) Garrincha won the World Cup, collecting the Golden Ball and Golden Boot in the 1960s despite being an alcoholic, with a deformed spine and legs and having only started playing professionally at 19-years-old. This wouldn't happen in the modern game.
3) The talent pool is much larger, with scouts finding talents from every corner of the globe and training them in world class facilities from an early age, meaning there is more competition to become professional.​
4) Modern sports science and nutrition means that players are optimised to perform at their very best every game and fitness levels have never been higher​
5) Tactics have developed and there is less space and time for players to affect the game. Teams now have numerous staff members dedicated to creating tactics and game-plans to stop star players like Messi.​

I also note that you avoided answering my question so I'll ask again: do you think Ronaldo Nazario would have performed better in 2020 or in 1960?
Jamie Vardy didn't play a professional game until he was 25 and had alcohol issues, had he been French and won the 2016 Euro it wouldn't be weird to think he could win a Ballon d'Or even against Messi and Ronaldo.

Rooney didn't lead exactly a professional life, he's still one of the best players of the last 20 years.

Edouard Mendy didn't play professionally until he was 24 y/o, now he's a Champions League and African Cup champion that was named the best keeper in Europe.

Garrincha is the most cherrypicked example possible, there has been plenty of examples for successful athletes that started late, Antetokounmpo didn't play basketball until he was 13 y/old, 6 years lated he was drafted for the NBA and played as a starter.
 

the_cliff

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Yeah, so it's a higher level of football, in club football the cream rises to the top and he best players play on the best teams, which is surely a better judge of quality than playing with, don't train with regularly, and in the case of Ronaldo and Messi at world cups, have had some horrible managers to deal with, it doesn't really happen in club football
Yes, the UCL knockouts are the highest level of football.

But I disagree with your second point about being a better judge of quality, the best players in history can perform in any team with any team mates. Irrelevant of whether you've trained with them before or not.

Casemiro joined us and was instantly our best midfielder. If we signed Mbappe tomorrow I don't think he'd struggle to displace Garnacho. The fact is you're trying to downplay the World Cup to discredit Messi's achievements but he's done it in the world cup AND in the UCL knockouts, so I really don't get your point.
 

jm99

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Well he's played against VVD/Ake, Gvardiol and Varane/Upamecano/ Konate in the Quarters, Semi and Final respectively.
Yeah but again these players aren't playing with each other every week, they're not playing under the managers they usually would. I really didn't think it was arguable that the Champions league was a higher level of football
 

genardk

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They don't balance out though, Maradona would never have been Barcelona manager like in 2010, Ronaldo would never have played under Santos or Queiroz at club level. Playing with the best players and against the best players is clearly the highest level of football,
You are repeating same things over and over. Messi played under terrible managers at Barca.

1) CL is the highest level of club football. Yes, everyone agrees.
2) WC is the highest level of NT football. Yes, everyone agrees.
3) Winning the WC is as challenging as winning the CL due to similar relative strength differences between rivals especially in the later stages of the competition.

Do you agree with no.3?
 

jm99

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Yes, the UCL knockouts are the highest level of football.

But I disagree with your second point about being a better judge of quality, the best players in history can perform in any team with any team mates. Irrelevant of whether you've trained with them before or not.

Casemiro joined us and was instantly our best midfielder. If we signed Mbappe tomorrow I don't think he'd struggle to displace Garnacho...
But as I've said repeatedly, the world Cup is such a small sample size of games,that judging a players quality on it doesn't make sense. Ronaldo played 5 world cups, but one while he was still a tricky winger and one where he's clearly declined from his peak. So that leaves you with 3 tournaments, 2014 he was carrying a bad knee injury so you have two tournaments where he's at his peak and fit. 2010 they get knocked out by that Spain team and any player would struggle to score when their team has 30% possession. In 2018 he scored a hat trick against Spain and ok should have done better against Uruguay. But that's my point, if someone fails to perform in the league or champions league every year its because they aren't very good, but when you're likely to only play in 3 tournaments while you're at your peak in your career, and even then most players aren't at Ronald's level when they're as old as he was in 2018. So when it's something like that, carrying in an injury or having a terrible manager has far more of an impact when the sample size is so small
 

jm99

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You are repeating same things over and over. Messi played under terrible managers at Barca.

1) CL is the highest level of club football. Yes, everyone agrees.
2) WC is the highest level of NT football. Yes, everyone agrees.
3) Winning WC is as challenging as winning CL due to similar relative strength differences between rivals especially in the later stages of the competition.

Do you agree with no.3?
Not really. I'd say winning the world Cup is more challenging because you likely only get 2 or 3 real shots at it, while you're at your peak and other factors can have more influence when it comes to a tournament that occurs entirely within a month, carrying a knock for a couple of weeks would ordinarily affect only one round in the CL but could affect you for the entirety of a world Cup. So in that sense it's more challenging, not because it's actually a harder completion
 

the_cliff

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But as I've said repeatedly, the world Cup is such a small sample size of games,that judging a players quality on it doesn't make sense. Ronaldo played 5 world cups, but one while he was still a tricky winger and one where he's clearly declined from his peak. So that leaves you with 3 tournaments, 2014 he was carrying a bad knee injury so you have two tournaments where he's at his peak and fit. 2010 they get knocked out by that Spain team and any player would struggle to score when their team has 30% possession. In 2018 he scored a hat trick against Spain and ok should have done better against Uruguay. But that's my point, if someone fails to perform in the league or champions league every year its because they aren't very good, but when you're likely to only play in 3 tournaments while you're at your peak in your career, and even then most players aren't at Ronald's level when they're as old as he was in 2018. So when it's something like that, carrying in an injury or having a terrible manager has far more of an impact when the sample size is so small
Yes but everyone gets the same sample size. It's not like anyone gets more chances at a world cup than Ronaldo. Take Zidane for example. won 98, injured 2002, WC final 2006. He only got 2 world cups fully fit, one in his prime, one in the last season of his career. In fact, take all the greats of football and it's the same with them too, if you take anyone's top 10 players of all time, 9 of them would've out performed CR7 in the world cup, the other one would be CR7 himself....
 

genardk

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But as I've said repeatedly, the world Cup is such a small sample size of games,that judging a players quality on it doesn't make sense. Ronaldo played 5 world cups, but one while he was still a tricky winger and one where he's clearly declined from his peak. So that leaves you with 3 tournaments, 2014 he was carrying a bad knee injury so you have two tournaments where he's at his peak and fit. 2010 they get knocked out by that Spain team and any player would struggle to score when their team has 30% possession. In 2018 he scored a hat trick against Spain and ok should have done better against Uruguay. But that's my point, if someone fails to perform in the league or champions league every year its because they aren't very good, but when you're likely to only play in 3 tournaments while you're at your peak in your career, and even then most players aren't at Ronald's level when they're as old as he was in 2018. So when it's something like that, carrying in an injury or having a terrible manager has far more of an impact when the sample size is so small
That's really not an excuse..

Stoichkov with Bulgaria, Hagi with Romania, James with Colombia in a single WC left their mark in this tournament, still remembered for their magical moments..

Even Roger Milla in the 90 WC with Cameroon at 38 had left a stronger impression than Ronaldo in 5 WCs, at least the guy scored two in the knock-outs to take his team to the QFs something Ronaldo could never do, still remember the joy he brought to the tournament..
 

Andrade

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What question?
Why Ronaldo has 8 goals in 22 WC games (0.36) if the standard is lower. Or 0 goals in 8 KO games if you prefer. I mean that stat alone proves that the standard is not lower.
 

jm99

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Yes but everyone gets the same sample size. It's not like anyone gets more chances at a world cup than Ronaldo. Take Zidane for example. won 98, injured 2002, WC final 2006. He only got 2 world cups fully fit, one in his prime, one in the last season of his career. In fact, take all the greats of football and it's the same with them too, if you take anyone's top 10 players of all time, 9 of them would've out performed CR7 in the world cup, the other one would be CR7 himself....
I'm pretty sure Zidane played in far better teams than Ronaldo

That's really not an excuse..

Stoichkov with Bulgaria, Hagi with Romania, James with Colombia in a single WC left their mark in this tournament, still remembered for their magical moments..

Even Roger Milla in the 90 WC with Cameroon at 38 had left a stronger impression than Ronaldo in 5 WCs, at least the guy scored two in the knock-outs to take his team to the QFs something Ronaldo could never do, still remember the joy he brought to the tournament..
So if Ronaldo scored his hat trick against Spain in the knock round you'd consider it as being a great moment, but doing it against a team that regularly makes the knockout rounds in the world Cup, but in the group stage doesn't count? That's a very odd line to draw. I mean you've championed Messi a lot on here, yet until this world cup he hadn't scored a knockout goal, and of the 5 he scored this time 3 were penalties and one was against Australia. Now I don't think that takes anything away from it but I can guarantee if Ronaldo had done that you'd be talking about penaldo or whatever
 

jm99

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Why Ronaldo has 8 goals in 22 WC games (0.36) if the standard is lower. Or 0 goals in 8 KO games if you prefer. I mean that stat alone proves that the standard is not lower.
Well probably because of those 22 games about half of them came either before he became the amazing player that he was, or after he'd declined, and and another 3 came in 2014 while he was carrying a knee injury. I'd say if you looked at his goal ratio for games where he was at his peak and fit 2010 and 2018, its not much worse. That's the problem with such a small sample size, for his CL knockout goal ratio, very few games are included before the start of his peak or after the end of it, and 3 games with a bad injury wouldn't impact it at all
 

r1z3mu

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...
...

Even Roger Milla in the 90 WC with Cameroon at 38 had left a stronger impression than Ronaldo in 5 WCs, at least the guy scored two in the knock-outs to take his team to the QFs something Ronaldo could never do, still remember the joy he brought to the tournament..
Especially that dance... :)
 

the_cliff

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I'm pretty sure Zidane played in far better teams than ro


So if Ronaldo scored his hat trick against Spain in the knock round you'd consider it as being a great moment, but doing it against a team that regularly makes the knockout rounds in the world Cup, but in the group stage doesn't count? That's a very odd line to draw. I mean you've championed Messi a lot on here, yet until this world cup he hadn't scored a knockout goal, and of the 5 he scored this time 3 were penalties and one was against Australia. Now I don't think that takes anything away from it but I can guarantee if Ronaldo had done that you'd be talking about penaldo or whatever
Then say that !

What you're trying to do is discredit the World Cup not debate the standard of Ronaldo's teams. :lol:

The problem with your argument is overall performances, Ronaldo doesn't have a good overall performance in the world cup other than the game against Spain and that's the issue. Compared to his performances at club level, his world cup performances are no where near as good. As others have mentioned here there are plenty of players that have played for far weaker teams than Portugal have had in Ronaldo's era and had better overall world cup performances than Ronaldo. Roger Milla, Davor Suker, Forlan, Gyan Asamoah Hakan Sukur, Hassan Sas, James Rodriguez, Modric, Ounahi/Amrabat this world cup, Hell, even Bruno had a better World cup this year than any of Ronaldo's....

Also it's funny you mention penalties when the only performance you keep talking about with Ronaldo consisted of a Penalty and a De Gea mistake....
His free kick was excellent though...
 
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Tom Cato

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Well I mean it should be obvious, if Messi gets to the CL final with psg this year he's likely to play against the best defenders in the world to get there, was that statement even close to true for this world cup?
Yes, yes it was.
 

Andrade

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Well probably because of those 22 games about half of them came either before he became the amazing player that he was, or after he'd declined, and and another 3 came in 2014 while he was carrying a knee injury. I'd say if you looked at his goal ratio for games where he was at his peak and fit 2010 and 2018, its not much worse. That's the problem with such a small sample size, for his CL knockout goal ratio, very few games are included before the start of his peak or after the end of it, and 3 games with a bad injury wouldn't impact it at all
Pure nonsense. He has played 5 World Cups and 5 Euros. He has 3 goals in the KO stages in all those competitions. Lemme guess, small sample size, right? :lol:
 

jm99

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Then say that !

What you're trying to do is discredit the World Cup not debate the standard of Ronaldo's teams. :lol:

The problem with your argument is overall performances, Ronaldo doesn't have a good overall performance in the world cup other than the game against Spain and that's the issue. Compared to his performances at club level, his world cup performances are no where near as good. As others have mentioned here there are plenty of players that have played for far weaker teams than Portugal have had in Ronaldo's era and had better overall world cup performances than Ronaldo. Roger Milla, James Rodriguez, Modric, Ounahi/Amrabat this world cup, Hell, even Bruno had a better World cup this year than any of Ronaldo's....

Also it's funny you mention penalties when the only performance you keep talking about with Ronaldo consisted of a Penalty and a De Gea mistake....
His free kick was excellent though...
Like I said though, in 2006 Ronaldo hadn't scored a single CL goal never mind a knockout stage goal, in 2022 we could see he was past his best and in 2014 he was carrying a bad injury that basically caused him to change his style of play from then on. So after that you've got 8 games that he played at his peak and fit, and in 2010 I don't think there's a single player in history you could have stuck on 2010 Portugal to get them to beat that Spain side. So really it's the Uruguay game in 2018 as the only one you really think he should have done much better in and that's fair enough but it's one game. I mean you said look at the top 10 and the other 9 probably have outperformed Ronaldo at the world cup. I'd wager they all played on better teams, which is quite important in a knockout competition, since it means if you have an off game you aren't knocked out if your better teammates can pick up the slack. In the CL almost every top player plays on a strong side, so the pot luck or being born to a better nation doesn't help
 

jm99

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Pure nonsense. He has played 5 World Cups and 5 Euros. He has 3 goals in the KO stages in all those competitions. Lemme guess, small sample size, right? :lol:
In 2006 he hadn't yet scored a CL goal so on par, in this world cup he hadn't scored a CL knockout goal for about 2 and a half years, so it seems odd that you'd compare his CL knockout goal ratio which was almost all at his peak, and include 2 tournaments where he clearly wasn't an elite goalscorer
 

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Like I said though, in 2006 Ronaldo hadn't scored a single CL goal never mind a knockout stage goal, in 2022 we could see he was past his best and in 2014 he was carrying a bad injury that basically caused him to change his style of play from then on. So after that you've got 8 games that he played at his peak and fit, and in 2010 I don't think there's a single player in history you could have stuck on 2010 Portugal to get them to beat that Spain side. So really it's the Uruguay game in 2018 as the only one you really think he should have done much better in and that's fair enough but it's one game. I mean you said look at the top 10 and the other 9 probably have outperformed Ronaldo at the world cup. I'd wager they all played on better teams, which is quite important in a knockout competition, since it means if you have an off game you aren't knocked out if your better teammates can pick up the slack. In the CL almost every top player plays on a strong side, so the pot luck or being born to a better nation doesn't help
I'll give you the 2006 one, first world cup, still young, not really the main man etc...

2010 World cup he was bad though, I remember watching him against Ivory Coast, he did hit the post from a long rage shot but other than that was not good, against North Korea he was not good either (His goal was funny though) and against Brazil he was terrible. You're acting like he only played vs Spain...

2014 he was meh but it may have been because of injury as you said (Was outperformed by Clint Dempsey). 2018 was his best performance at a world cup and it's mediocre in comparison to James Rodriguez's in 14 or Gyan Asamoahs in 2010 for example and in 2022 he was finished I agree.

Here lies the problem, 2018 was his best world cup from an individual standpoint and it really wasn't all that comparable to players that have played for smaller nations and outperformed him....
 
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Andrade

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Then say that !

What you're trying to do is discredit the World Cup not debate the standard of Ronaldo's teams. :lol:

The problem with your argument is overall performances, Ronaldo doesn't have a good overall performance in the world cup other than the game against Spain and that's the issue. Compared to his performances at club level, his world cup performances are no where near as good. As others have mentioned here there are plenty of players that have played for far weaker teams than Portugal have had in Ronaldo's era and had better overall world cup performances than Ronaldo. Roger Milla, Davor Suker, Forlan, Gyan Asamoah Hakan Sukur, Hassan Sas, James Rodriguez, Modric, Ounahi/Amrabat this world cup, Hell, even Bruno had a better World cup this year than any of Ronaldo's....

Also it's funny you mention penalties when the only performance you keep talking about with Ronaldo consisted of a Penalty and a De Gea mistake....
His free kick was excellent though...
That's my problem with his illogical statements as well.
 

jm99

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I'll give you the 2006 one, first world cup, still young, not really the main man etc...

2010 World cup he was bad though, I remember watching him against Ivory Coast, he did hit the post from a long rage shot but other than that was not good, against North Korea he was not good either (His goal was funny though) and against Brazil he was terrible. You're acting like he only played vs Spain...

2014 he was meh but it may have been because of injury as you said. 2018 was his best performance at a world cup and it's mediocre in comparison to James Rodriguez's in 14 or Gyan Asamoahs in 2010 for example and in 2022 he was finished I agree.

Here lies the problem, 2018 was his best world cup from an individual standpoint and it really wasn't all that comparable to players that have played for smaller nations and outperformed him....
Right some players have played for smaller nations or that and had great world cups but I wouldn't use it as a measure of their quality, martinez just won the golden glove for the world cup, but I would hope most people wouldn't seriously suggest him as our next number one, Rodriguez had a great world cup and ends up playing for Everton before he turns 30, and while he did OK he didn't exactly light the world on fire at Madrid. Maguire had a pretty decent world cup both this time and last time and most united fans want him sold if we could find anyone to buy him. The fact that it is a few games over a month every 4 years means poor player in good form can excel and a great player in poor form can suck. I mean to use the example of maguire he's had better world cups than a lot of defenders who I'm sure you and I would both take over him at united
 

the_cliff

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Right some players have played for smaller nations or that and had great world cups but I wouldn't use it as a measure of their quality, martinez just won the golden glove for the world cup, but I would hope most people wouldn't seriously suggest him as our next number one, Rodriguez had a great world cup and ends up playing for Everton before he turns 30, and while he did OK he didn't exactly light the world on fire at Madrid. Maguire had a pretty decent world cup both this time and last time and most united fans want him sold if we could find anyone to buy him. The fact that it is a few games over a month every 4 years means poor player in good form can excel and a great player in poor form can suck. I mean to use the example of maguire he's had better world cups than a lot of defenders who I'm sure you and I would both take over him at united
And I completely agree here. Finally.

Ronaldo is one of the best players ever but defending his performances in the world cup or discrediting the world cup is just plain wrong. It wasn't meant to be for Ronaldo at the world cup, end of story, it happens, it is what it is. but discrediting the world cup isn't the way to go...