Messi and "just a good player" can't be serious.
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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He's 34 and has struggled with minor injuries and getting a consistent run of games though. He's been dissapointing so far though. What was Pelé and Maradonna upto at 34?
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Last few years only? Granted the squad was world class from Pep and onwards until they post-neymar, but Messi was absolutely the key player in the team in all that time.
I was watching montages of last few years, so I will obviously be talking about last few years
Oh yeah. That makes sense.I was watching montages of last few years, so I will obviously be talking about last few years
Maradona was an ex-player by 34.
Could have lasted longer had not been for his cocaine addiction who ended up hurting his health and career.
“just a good player”. Poor attempt at a WUM.Messi has declined younger and quicker than Ronaldo.
If Man Utd can get themselves together, Ronaldo might be able to take advantage if we are able to win something (champs league as it won’t be premier league). That could put him ahead of Messi a bit in the list of GOATs.
I think longevity is considered when discussing who the goat is otherwise Ronaldinho would have a good shout at being the GOAT for his short prime.
If Man Utd can get themselves together, Ronaldo might be able to take advantage if we are able to win something (champs league as it won’t be premier league). That could put him ahead of Messi a bit in the list of GOATs.
I think longevity is considered when discussing who the goat is otherwise Ronaldinho would have a good shout at being the GOAT for his short prime.
Messi won his 7th ballon D'or at 34 even though it was his weakest win. Him and Ronaldo were head and shoulders above everyone else for around 12 years. That's incredible longetivity even if Ronaldo's might be better. Messi said in in interview that as he gets older, he sees himself more in a playmaker role and expects his goals numbers to go down as a result, while Ronaldo has streamlined his game to be a poacher. But this isn't the Messi vs Ronaldo thread.
Not as a much as you think, otherwise Maradona wouldn't be considered GOAT, as he was an ex-player by 31 thanks to his drug addiction.
On the other hand, Ronaldinho peak was too short to be considered GOAT, he had at best 5 great seasons, including his 2 fantastic seasons at PSG.
Maradona had at least 9 great seasons, including his times at Argentino Juniors and Boca, take in account that Diego was considered a top player since he was 17-18.
Chilling, because they both had won the WC.
Agreed, because otherwise Ibra > Maradona or Van Basten in the GOAT list.
Just 3 Days into the new year and this is the dumbest thing I'll probably read for the rest of it.
Great points regarding his consistency and your point on Messi’s role having evolved. Although, the Ballon D’or was clearly debatable this year unlike any of the previous times he had won it.
Obviously he is considered the GOAT by a lot of people and there are only a few doubters like me left. However, he has taken the easy way out going to the French league which in the long run takes a bit of shine of the ending of his amazing football career IMO. Would have been great to see him in the best league in the world and compete at the highest level.
I doubt it will hurt his legacy, Maradona's legacy wasn't hurt by being an ex-player at 31, neither it was hurt by going back to an argentinian league which wasn't one of the best leagues in the world anymore (it was in the 70s and 80s).
Messi is kinda done at league level, considering his lack of pace and physical traits, he is more suited to cup competition format as this doesn't require to be consistent.
I agree to some extent, but when he handed in transfer request at 33, he wanted to go to Man City. City didnt seem to for him this time around. Logically now, I just see PSG as a retirement option. I agree it's fairly boring. On top of that he's been underwhelming and now that he's got covid I imagine he'll miss another match. His whole time there has been boring so far.
Anyone who watches PSG can rate his season so far? Havent seen him much at all but hear little of him setting the world alight.
Yeah your right, personally I agree and think Maradona is the GOAT but I always thought Ronaldinho deserved to be in the conversation, he has won everything after all.
Messi is probably as good as Maradona football wise but he obviously didn’t win the World Cup or carry his country like Maradona did. I also think that despite Diego having a flawed personality, he had alot of charisma and inspired so many people which is the opposite of Messi who is quite bland.
I know they should only be judged on their football ability but personally think that leadership qualities are important too in the GOAT convo.
That is why Maradona is remembered so fondly, I can’t believe what he managed to do with those old heavy footballs and to take all of those now illegal leg breaker tackles. Plus to develop his god like football skills with the terrible facilities and poor conditions of Argentina back then. What an absolutely amazing player he was..
Really depends on how much he's declined. I mean he finished last season as La liga topscorer. He started last season pretty shit though(scoring mostly penalties), so I don't know if something similar will happen this time around.
But he’s past his best. Makes no sense for him to try and succeed in a tougher league when he’s not the player he once was. Even going to PSG is risking his legacy. Would have been an easier option to take his foot off the gas completely and go somewhere like the MLS.
He has been average most of the matches, despiste some assists and good plays.
He can't deal with the physical aspect of Ligue 1(much more physical league than La Liga), it's a very physical league and he is 34, and he never had the physique of Ronaldo or Zlatan.
This is the weird thing - the few times I've watched PSG it's seemed obvious that they need someone deeper pulling the strings to set Neymar and Mbappé off, and yet Messi still always seems to be jogging around high up the pitch thinking he's a forward. Maybe he's just stat padding or something but it seems obvious to me that PSG need a playmaker and he is still world class as a playmaker so...
Thanks for this. Did feel it would be a bit a shock to the system to him.
In his last match, he was absolutely in a playmaker role and beat I think 12 players during the match and set up Di Maria for a tap in which he missed, and Messi hit the post(which he's done quite a lot at PSG). He's definitely not been peak/prime Messi at PSG, but when he's been decent he's created good chances for Mpabbe. Messi was absoluetly gash in the last game against City though, where he simpy walking/jogging and not busting his limbs to make himself available. I don't think anyone can deny that despite being past his best, we had all expected more I want him to pick up form because I enjoy watching Messi at his best, but now he's got Covid so he's going to be out for another game possibly more.
As you can see, he was not all playing as a striker in this game, if you see where receives the ball.
If you don't think he hasn't created chances for Mpabbe then look at this video. It's not to refute that he hasn't been dissapointing(he has), but that some of his performances has been better than the stats suggets.
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Of course Messi hasn’t declined permanently. That guy is a WUM calling him only a good player. If you watched Messi and don’t think he’s one the best players of all time, if not the best, then you’re definitely a childish person with an agenda. Some things are just not up for debate.
@Bogdann felt that Messi isn't that technical because he doesnt do elastico's. Bogdann used to be a proffesional footballer so he knows what he's talking about.
I think last season is the first we’ve ever witness Messi being inconsistence throughout the season (poor first half of season, brilliant in 2nd half). While this season is the first we’ve witness both his performance/output level has been dropped notably and no longer among the elites.
Could be. PSG are gash under Poch and if they are knocked out early in the CL there isn't much to play for a player of Messi's stature. Now that Messi has Covid I don't know when we'll get the chance to see him pick up form.
It was debatable in other years too. Sneijder clearly deserved it more in 2010.
Most of whom are kids.
You're not the only one, plenty of us out there.
Whether you like it or not, that's a FACT.
Pele and Maradona didn't have at their disposal the "juices" that Messi and modern footballers do.
Actually, I'm very serious.
Well said.
You only say that cause you are a Messi fanboyBro just shut up man, like seriously shut up
Then, you have some serious issues
"Just a good player"
7 Ballon D'ors, a record
6 Golden Shoes, a record
8 Pichichis, a record
5 MVP awards with the national team (WC. Olympics, Copa 2015-2021, U-20 World Cup), a record
4 IFFHS Best Playmaker Award, a record
IFFHS Playmaker of the Decade
9 Most G+As in Europe: 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019, a record
6 CL top scorer
Most goals in a calendar year (91), 2012
etc.
etc.
You probably are confusing Messi with someone from your old football days
Take him out of that Barcelona team and he wouldn't have half of those awards.Then, you have some serious issues
"Just a good player"
7 Ballon D'ors, a record
6 Golden Shoes, a record
8 Pichichis, a record
5 MVP awards with the national team (WC. Olympics, Copa 2015-2021, U-20 World Cup), a record
4 IFFHS Best Playmaker Award, a record
IFFHS Playmaker of the Decade
9 Most G+As in Europe: 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019, a record
6 CL top scorer
Most goals in a calendar year (91), 2012
etc.
etc.
You probably are confusing Messi with someone from your old football days
And he didn't deserve MVP at the World Cup with Argentina. He was useless after the groups stage, where Argentina faced weak teams.
You are aware that this is a team sport where top players almost always play for top teams other than a few exceptions, right?
Messi is the major reason why that Barca was an amazing team.
Take Pele out of that Brazil team and put him at Peru/Colombia/Ecuador/Chile etc., he would win nothing.
Take Ronaldinho out of Barca and put him back at PSG, he would win no CL.
Take Ronaldo out of SAF's United and Real put him back at Sporting, he would have zero CL wins and Ballon D'ors.
Take R9 out of that Brazil with Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, R.Carlos, Cafu etc., he would probably win no WC and Ballon D'ors.
Take Zidane out of that France team and Los Galacticos Real, he would probably win no WC, CL or BODs.
You probably can see where I am going with that
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Put maradona into Barcelona and he will win no liga and CL, oh wait in reality that happenedYou are aware that this is a team sport where top players almost always play for top teams other than a few exceptions, right?
Messi is the major reason why that Barca was an amazing team.
Take Pele out of that Brazil team and put him at Peru/Colombia/Ecuador/Chile etc., he would win nothing.
Take Ronaldinho out of Barca and put him back at PSG, he would win no CL.
Take Ronaldo out of SAF's United and Real put him back at Sporting, he would have zero CL wins and Ballon D'ors.
Take R9 out of that Brazil with Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, R.Carlos, Cafu etc., he would probably win no WC and Ballon D'ors.
Take Zidane out of that France team and Los Galacticos Real, he would probably win no WC, CL or BODs.
You probably can see where I am going with that
Ah yes, because the Barca side that Messi won so much with is of course directly comparable to the one that Maradona found himself in
He struggled a lot with injuries and dicipline problems. Like starting brawls.
I agree. The greatest players tend to play for the greatest teams. On an international level it's a bit different since you can't decice where you were born. Messi could have played for Spain though if he wanted to which almost certainly would have meant he'd have a world cup and several euros. And we wouldn't have this argument ad nauseum.You are aware that this is a team sport where top players almost always play for top teams other than a few exceptions, right?
Messi is the major reason why that Barca was an amazing team.
Take Pele out of that Brazil team and put him at Peru/Colombia/Ecuador/Chile etc., he would win nothing.
Take Ronaldinho out of Barca and put him back at PSG, he would win no CL.
Take Ronaldo out of SAF's United and Real put him back at Sporting, he would have zero CL wins and Ballon D'ors.
Take R9 out of that Brazil with Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, R.Carlos, Cafu etc., he would probably win no WC and Ballon D'ors.
Take Zidane out of that France team and Los Galacticos Real, he would probably win no WC, CL or BODs.
You probably can see where I am going with that
That Barca side had good players, but it wasn't considered a top side by any means.