You have to ask this? Because it grates him that Messi is superior to his hero and therefore lacks objectivity when it comes to discussing him.
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
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Liverpool only conceded 22 goals in the PL and lost the title to City by a point. VVD had one of the best seasons for a CB, there wasn't much more he could have done, maybe besides scoring a few headers in the final. History has shown us that the award usually favours the one who wins a CL or World Cup, so I don't see anything crazy about a VVD win that year. He was a big reason for Liverpool's success.
Yeah please, it's impossible to report so many posts.
Ah…the same few insecure Cr7 cultists derailing the thread again. Busy at work these days yeah, need to defend your god and savior in the transfer thread too
And goal scoring is supposed to be his main strength. That's why I cannot understand how these two can be compared.
Messi is a GOAT level playmaker, passer and creator. Ronaldo has no business in those areas. Messi is also a superior GOAT level dribbler.
One would expect Ronaldo to be the the way superior goal scorer so that he can cover his significant weaknesses in other areas yet it is doubtful whether he is even better than Messi in goalscoring
Messi has more top league goal scorer awards, Golden Shoes, and a better per minute goal rate..Ok. Please explain (using logic) why Messi didn't deserve it?
Because VVD did.
You keep waiting for me to say something bad about Messi, but there is no reason to.
You can stop caping for him now bruh, the gent is perfectly capable of fighting his own battles from what I've seen.
You are right. It was a miracle he made PSG win. Top class achievement .
So it's a no to accepting wrongs ?
Did VVD carry Liverpool in the same way Messi carried Barca?
How do you think VVD could have done better to deserve it in your eyes?
I'll accept that I'm wrong about the use of the word 'everyone' as soon as you accept that you're wrong about Ronaldo never having teams built around him. But if you see sense and admit that, it would make me right. You see the dilemma?
You don't generally answer a question with a question sir.
You've asked three questions, only fair I get at least one.
Not never. He has but not to the extent of Messi. That United team was no built around him. Madrid 14-17 played to his strengths.
The thing is I don't care for this debate so much because it honestly doesn't matter to me. You build around your best players what's new. It's wrong to say though that just because Rooney accomodated for Ronaldo the team was built around him.
I don't particularly think Poch built around Messi right but the Barca team was. It was absolutely optimal and there's nothing wrong with that. Just shows pep was a good coach and had an incredibly Midfield maybe best of that generation.
Also doesn't matter to the debate for me but it does matter to me that Messi went to Ligue 1. I can't respect that league and trophies won there at a plastic club is meaningless. You know very well lingard would probably win there.
Disagree, but well articulated.
In order to win the Golden Ball as a defender, you really need a perfect storm to occur. Defenders who probably were better players than Van Dijk (for example Baresi, Maldini) have never won it either and they didn't have to contend with Ronaldo/Messi duopoly.
Anyways it came down to a couple of votes, painting that as some sort of a robbery makes no sense whatsoever.
Anyways it came down to a couple of votes, painting that as some sort of a robbery makes no sense whatsoever.
It's only because that was a normal season for prime Messi. Had any other attacking player had that same season no one would go around saying VVD was robbed
Ronaldo vs Messi thread part 2? Another thread to avoid, super.
Mooooodddddsssssssss
Haha, OK. Well, the Ballon D'Or has only been won by 2 defenders ever, Beckenbauer and Fabio C. The World Cup usually helps. Outside of that, defenders don't usually win it. Fair? Maybe not but that's how it is. The other issue is that VVD had Salah and Mane who finished 4th and 5th, so VVD did well to finish second to be honest, above his attacking teammates.
Another post mentioning Ronaldo in here and I'm banning the lot of you.
This explains what I was saying much better. There have been better defenders than VVD who have not won it
Not very fair on defenders, no. But it's a fair take. Both were very important to their teams, and as good as Salah/Mane are, they would have won feck all without him. And then there was the talk about him having a flawless year, never been beat, etc.
I was about to ask why all the CR7 fans are in here polluting the thread without consequence. There's a specific thread for that.
Awwww...when you're talking about post hits as a legitimate stat you know you're reaching. Cute that you rate Messi's last season as a success. Not sure how many would agree, but hey. Still, one season outside of Barça and...not the same Messi. Who'd have thought it?!
Besides Mbappe, it's hard to name a single player who played to his level in that PSG team this past season, and Messi had something to do with it (Mbappe's form).
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Ballon Dor is an award for best individual player. VVD without that miracle comeback wouldn't have won the UCL, where he was a part of a defense who conceded 3 goals, of which Messi scored two. So to say oh VVD was robbed is such a silly thing. You can say "you think" VVD deserved it, because you think "players winning UCL should win Ballon Dor". To use words like oh Messi didn't deserved it, just tries to make it Messi was average in those seasons, yet won because of politics. When that isn't true at all.
When Mane (VVD’s own teammate) says Messi deserved it in 2019 that days it all. Messi had a far bigger carry job in 2019 than VVD did. Liverpool’s attack showed up in 2019, Barca’s defense didn’t.
Still does very well for the NT, and was still second in assists in the French league and psg didn’t even win the title the year before. Having said that, not a good season by Messi standards but far from a bad one.
It was a shit point
They are in a existential crisis mode after recent events, trying to distract attention from Ronaldo's circus
Very much thisThey are in a existential crisis mode after recent events, trying to distract attention from Ronaldo's circus
Adds an 11th league title and a 40th trophy to extend the gap.
No wonder Ronaldo is panicking and throwing himself at Bayern.
And goal scoring is supposed to be his main strength. That's why I cannot understand how these two can be compared.
Messi is a GOAT level playmaker, passer and creator. Ronaldo has no business in those areas. Messi is also a superior GOAT level dribbler.
One would expect Ronaldo to be the the way superior goal scorer so that he can cover his significant weaknesses in other areas yet it is doubtful whether he is even better than Messi in goalscoring
They aren't even close.
| Messi | Ronaldo | |
| Goal scoring Peak (Calender Year) | 91 | 69 |
| Goalscoring peak (season) | 73 | 61 |
| Goalscoring average | 82.2% | 74.6% |
| Golden boots | 6 | 4 |
| Top scorer awards | 8 | 5 |
And as you stated, Messi does this while playing deeper, not taking even close to as many shots per game as Ronaldo does, and while setting up more goals than Ronaldo does.
Great point, such an overlooked issue.
How amazing it would be if Messi could play under a manager like Klopp after Guardiola. Barca could easily attract the best of the best, never understood why they always go for mediocre managers other than a few exceptions, definitely would help Messi add a couple more big trophies like CL..
Messi hasn't proven he can do it outside of Barça, so I wouldn't hold your breath...
He's won balón dors and golden boots under Enrique and Valverde. Ronaldo hasn't sniffed either without an all time great as a manager.
He just led Argentina to Copa america while winning player of the tournament. Ronaldo has never sniffed an international player of the tournament award.
Domestically, your point is fatuous because Messi made Barcelona as dominant as they are, even with the conveyer belt of different managers.