It's like Ronaldo is posting behind Piers Morgan's account
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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For me personally, the top four are Pelé, Maradona, R9 and Messi in no particular order. And then there's the second tier in which Cristiano belongs but also players such as Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Best, Platini, Zico, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Garrincha, Puskas, di Stefano, etc. Not sure Cristiano edges all of them but definitely the majority - but I wouldn't say he has to be in a top 5 ever list.
But nobody talks about the statistics of Pelé or Maradona. What people talk about are their performances, the unreal footage of them. Which can work in Cristiano's favour as well because he has more than enough breathtaking highlights from before 2013 or so and viewers will assume he just continued like that. Still even this footage will pale in comparison to Messi because he's just way more spectacular than even the best version of Cristiano.
R9 is overrated and not on the same level as Cruyff.
I think he is top 20 of all time, but would be at the bottom end. If not for his injuries he would be ranked higher though.
You would have to ask them. I am not Ronaldo fan, I think he is finished and is embarrassing himself lately. I also think Messi will rightfully go down in history as a better player. But the point remains, his fans (you probably, seeing how you immediately turned this into CR vs. Messi) are obnoxious beyond belief. Seeing how yesterday's performance against freaking Australian gets hyped to the unbelievable levels speaks how biased his fans are.
He didn’t score in the final. Argentina were a very good team.
True, but they existed before the heavy statification (which may not be a word) of football we've seen over the last couple of decades. And indeed the advent of the internet, which also shapes a lot of the discussion around football.
Ronaldo and Messi are the first greats of that era and it may be that it changes the way fans think/talk about football going forward. Given stats played more of a role in how they were discussed at the time compared to previous greats, I don't see much reason to think stats won't also play more of a role in how they will be discussed in the future too. Statistics are just broadly more central to football now than they were in previous eras.
Nah, the young version was already a top 5 player even if we never got to see his full potential. Just listen what his team mates and opponents have to say about him, even guys like Maldini or Nesta. R9 was absolutely unplayable and almost impossible to defend. We probably wouldn't need to discuss the greatest of all time if he didn't wreck his knees like this.
This is true, but it is also true that records require context, and I think it is undeniable at this stage that the goal records of Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Lewandowski, Zlatan ect have been hugely inflated by playing in a period when the very top teams can concentrate talent like never before.
Or to put it differently, not all 30/ 40 goals season are equal.
Yeah but statistical discussions will move away from goals and assists which are truly awful indicators. We are already seeing it this world cup with great new statistics like line breaks, the new possession stats with contestesd possession, etc. And Messi will absolutely blow Ronaldo out of the water in all of those.
Pele has the stats backing him yet most people prefer Maradona.
Here’s a fun fact I learned recently, the first known use of statistics and data in football decision making and management was actually by Brazil in 1958, and this all pointed to one thing. Don’t take Pele.
As it turned out, teenage Pele was the second highest scorer in the tournament, scoring two in the final as Brazil won. Young player of the tournament, too.
This is the same as saying that Griezmann "Carried the team to the World cup and also what he did with Atletico, is just staggering"
Sad how Beckenbauer gets underrated even by his own germans
Easily in the first group alongside Diego, Pele, Messi and who ever you want to put there.
Interesting! There's very little footage of him, have you seen him play?Sad how Beckenbauer gets underrated even by his own germans
Easily in the first group alongside Diego, Pele, Messi and who ever you want to put there.
Most people of a certain age for whom 80s football was everything. I think it's pretty even between them in terms of public opinion.
Maybe ability wise, but he never achieved enough as a young player to be put in with the top 5, you could argue he is there for his WC achievement though.
horrible take, Messi was everywhere yesterday, dumfries was great too but Messi was putting on a clinic
not live but plenty of footage online, pretty sure there are like 100 full games available
I agree with this. He'd certainly be in my top 10 but being a defensive player it opens up another can of worms. I remember when luthar Mateus burst onto the scene and was being compared to the keiser and as great as Mateus was he was still no where near him. Beckenbauer had absolutely everything except being born in the right decade where today's fans could of seen him play.Sad how Beckenbauer gets underrated even by his own germans
Easily in the first group alongside Diego, Pele, Messi and who ever you want to put there.
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We already have stats like these appearing that measure all World Cups where Messi is near the top or top (despite not even being as good in the WC as the CL) while Ronaldo is nowhere to be seen despite playing in 5 World Cups.
Disagree a bit here. It’s not that long ago that great players were constantly scoring these amount of goals as well. It’s like two thirds monster goal scorers era and a middle third that seemed more spread out
This can’t be true. If anything we are even further into the stats era, especially for forwards. Look at how modern forwards are viewed now, there’s a reason why this generation is seen as having a fall in quality strikers outside of Mbappe and Haaland.
Especially as elite football is becoming more and more specialised and the job of wide forwards is to get in to goal scoring positions from the space that the modern number 9 leaves.
Honestly this is the first time I’ve ever read of how goals and accomplishments will be downplayed in the future. It doesn’t make sense.
He won 5 CL and is the best goalscorer the competition has ever seen. Well player x has the most receptions inside the box…
Say what you want but accomplishments will always back a player up. In modern football if you don’t win a game you’re jumped on never mind a CL etc. look at KDB as an example
It’s a credit to Ronaldo that he’s managed to catapult himself to where he is seen as Messi’s equal, because truthfully there aren’t as close as many would people like to portray, Messi is clearly the better player and has always been.
Yup I've never really had a problem with anyone saying that Ronaldo was their "favorite" player but it's always been obvious that Messi was the "better" player (and by quite a margin).
I know people can point at goal stats etc but that's like pointing at box office receipts to prove that Frozen 2 is a better film than Apocalypse Now.
Messi is a different level to Ronaldo and always has been in terms of talent.
Perhaps not as consistently, and going by wiki(for what its worth) we have 5 of the top 20 goalscorers of all time currently active at the same time, some of them playing on the same teams at the same time.
I mean how do you compare someone like Lewandowski to a guy like Batistuta. The stats would say Lewa, the eye test (for me) Batigol, but how do you compare club records for a guy who played most of his career for a laughably dominant Bayern to to one who spent the best years of his career trying to push Fiorentina beyond mid-table in historically one of the deepest leagues ever?
Often when people talk about goalscoring numbers from the 30's-50's they are happy to contextualize it with tactical set ups at the time allowing more goalscoring, rightly so, this era should have its own understanding.
what a WC he is having.
It's incredible btw to think that psg with Messi, Mbappe, verratti, Marquinhos, S.Ramos or Neymar are not the overhelming favourites for this year CL......shows how insanely competitive the CL is
It's incredible btw to think that psg with Messi, Mbappe, verratti, Marquinhos, S.Ramos or Neymar are not the overhelming favourites for this year CL......shows how insanely competitive the CL is
Half of your posts on this forum are wum attempts about Messi so it seems you're really trying to get the attention of his fans, which is a pretty strange strategy for someone who supposedly can't stand them.
That's how I see it. I've got nothing but respect for Ronaldo's dedication to forge the career he has, but it's not even close.
Both are great statistically but Messi's general game is on another planet.
But the likes of Batistuta turned down United to stay in Italy so that place in history was sacrificed because of it. If you don’t step up then you don’t get into the conversation with an asterix. It’s not like these players were forced to stay in less dominant clubs
But a lot of players effecively were before the removal of the 3 foreigner rule, when did that go, 93/94? It was a much different time as well when there was nowhere the same (US imported) obsession with legacies and the like.
Hate the idea of top players thinking the only way to retain historical significance is to congregate at super teams, piling up empty stats against cannon fodder, how much healthier and more competitive would the game be with dispersed talent?
He lit la liga on fire when he was 20. He won the fifa player of the year and ballon d’or before turning 22 (isnt he the youngest to win it ever?)
He broke the world transfer fee record twice by the time he moved to Inter - he was still 21 and he would soon reach 200 career goals.
R9 is probably the best Striker that ever graced the game we never had the opportunity to enjoy because of the horrendous injuries. He didn’t play for almost 3 years. Did u even watch the dude play?
Did he turn united down? I thought fergie and co didnt want to break the wage structure.
I remember there being a Messi vs Ronaldo thread...and since the genius move to lock that, every freaking Messi thread has worms all over it.
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Not at all, because Griezmann was surrounded with other top players like Mbappe, Pogba, Kante, Varane etc. He didnt drag France into the world cup, nor did he do that with Atletico. What a stupid comparison.
He assisted the winning goal.
The Argentinian NT was not strong at all, Maradona was the only world class player in that team.
And Messi might have struggled with the extreme physical football of the 80s. That is if we want to deal with hypothetical scenarios like this.
Not sure how anyone could watch R9 and think this.
Personally think R9 lacks playmaking/passing compared to the others. I'd have him in the next tier(at his apex).
I find it impossible to pick between Messi/Maradona though(I have Pele 1st).
Will be curious to see how he does vs the Netherlands, but he has had a impressive WC. He started off poorly vs Saudi Arabia, but he's picked it up since then.
If he snatches the Golden Ball from Mbappe with improved performances, his legacy will be truly cemented(as it should be already).
If he snatches the Golden Ball from Mbappe with improved performances, his legacy will be truly cemented(as it should be already).
Really doubt it. France as usual have the squad to go all the way. Argentina are like Stoke but relying on a 35 year old Messi to create. Also Mbappe is a better goalscorer at this point in time.
I think R9's passing is a bit underrated. Saw a few crazy through balls by him. But he's definitely less of a playmaker - but the way he played, he didn't need to be. Could create chances for himself and others all by himself through his sheer technique and explosiveness.
Generally, I find it very hard to decide between Messi, Maradona, Pelé and Ronaldo. You watch one of them and think "there's no way somebody else was that good" but then you watch one of the other three and think the same. The only four players that make me feel that way.