Zidane has never had as many assists as Beckham and Giggs has assisted more than Figo, more than by any other attacking player after Laudrup. Does that mean they were better?
Lionel Messi
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In some ways Bramble is better than Maradona.
Becks, no. Giggs, arguably.
Giggs was better than Figo, yes.
Obviously no one was on a par with Zidane over the last 15 years other than Ronaldo.
And Bednar than Ronaldo!
No one is better than Bramble. What the hell am I saying? You can't compare Bramble to any player. . .because he's Titus Bramble.
You can compare a bramble with another kind of shrubbery.
But most people wouldnt, unless they were a right boring tosser.
But most people wouldnt, unless they were a right boring tosser.
He played his best football around late 80's and early 90's but the failure of the Dutch the strongest team on paper in the Italia 90 robbed them of their gloss.
Even with the other two missing out, Rijkaard was teriffic in Euro 92.
Barring injury he will be up their with the best ever.
Okay so why dont you go through the positives and negatives about both players.
Lionel Messi
Positives:
1) The best dribbler of the ball on the planet
2) A great burst of pace
3) Has great vision and awareness
4) Links up an attack very well
5) Gets his fare share of goals and assists
Negatives:
1) Too one-footed
2) Injury-prone
3) Too small to be a threat in the air
4) Has bizarre moments...eg: Scoring with his hand, spitting at another opponent
Also im not to sure but what he's like at free-kicks?
As I've never seen him take one to be fair.
Cristiano Ronaldo
Postives:
1) Brilliant finisher
2) Very quick and skillful
3) A true two-footed player
4) A big threat in the air
5) When his free-kicks are on target, a threat for any keeper
Negatives:
1) Throws strops when things dont go his way
2) Still dives
3) Can be quite selfish if he hasnt scored.
4) His free-kicks are too inconsistant (But a big threat when they are eventually on target)
All in all they are both fantastic players, but they can still improve upon their games.
Lionel Messi
Positives:
1) The best dribbler of the ball on the planet
2) A great burst of pace
3) Has great vision and awareness
4) Links up an attack very well
5) Gets his fare share of goals and assists
Negatives:
1) Too one-footed
2) Injury-prone
3) Too small to be a threat in the air
4) Has bizarre moments...eg: Scoring with his hand, spitting at another opponent
Also im not to sure but what he's like at free-kicks?
As I've never seen him take one to be fair.
Cristiano Ronaldo
Postives:
1) Brilliant finisher
2) Very quick and skillful
3) A true two-footed player
4) A big threat in the air
5) When his free-kicks are on target, a threat for any keeper
Negatives:
1) Throws strops when things dont go his way
2) Still dives
3) Can be quite selfish if he hasnt scored.
4) His free-kicks are too inconsistant (But a big threat when they are eventually on target)
All in all they are both fantastic players, but they can still improve upon their games.
You forgot 5) C U N T under the Ronaldo negatives
Messi and bizarre moments ,good work though Ronaldo No.9Got stats ? I'm really not so sure about it
Words fail me. How do these wankers get access to keyboards?Gullit
I do agree with your point. But going off an a tangent here, Zidane's one greatest weakness was that he didn't score a lot of goals for an attacking midfielder. For example, 25 Serie A goals in 5 full season at Juventus is nothing to shout home about. The fact he didn't score a lot of goals yet is still considered to be amongst the greatest tells a lot about his other qualities. This relative lack of goals is why I wouldn't rank him in the same bracket as Maradona and it is in fact very debatable that he was the greatest player of his generation.
So far he has got something more than 150 assists..Figo around 130 and Beckham very far behind.
As for Giggs vs Figo...Giggs was more talented winger than Figo but through out his career he was never consistent to be rated as the best in the world.
Giggs and Beckham can change the course of a match with a moment of brilliancy but cannot grab the match by the scruff and control as much as Figo did that eventually landed him the FIFA award and the Ballon D'or.
I disagree Giggs might have had more pace in his prime, but it was Figo who shone the brightess as a star. Sure he might not have been as consisitent but when he was on he was on. The fact of the matter is that as great as Beckham was and as legendary as Giggs is, Figo was a better player than both when he set his mind to it, it certainly is close in the case of Giggs, who despite all the highlights goals between the two scored the best, you have to rate Figo even if he didnt last that long, because..he did last long enough
Ok thanks for the info
Although I think Giggs had potential to become a greater player than Figo there were sometimes some inconsistency in his play and that's why we also love him so much (because he could be brilliant again just like that). Figo at Barcelona and the first 2 years at Madrid was a jewell.
Messi is an amazing dribbler, perhaps the best dribbler ever, but look at Ronaldo how much more complete he is. Messi is missing so many other things on the pitch. Just look where he's at on corners. He'd be nowhere near a goal if he was up against Sol Campbell, Vidic and Alan Shearer in the air (just a theoretical exampel), not as if many player would, but you get the point. Ronaldo can take free kicks, score goals from anywhere off the pitch, dribble players, win balls in the air, speed up with the ball at his feet etc. Messi is absolutely a world player but at the moment not better than Ronaldo and that is not because I'm a United supporter I say so.
I haven't read the whole thread, but I assume someones pointed out he's scored 6 goals in 9 league games (including 6 official 'assists'), and 11 goals in 14 total this season. The guys not a striker, its a cracking start to the season. There's only him and Ronaldo putting in these scoring figures from positions that just don't traditionall score this many goals
Plus I've watched virtually all the games, and he's been brilliant. No-one can get near him. With Ronaldo, they'll start trying to kick him off the ball. At times they struggle to get near enough to even kick Messi. I think he's an incredible player, and considering the injury problems he's had early in his career, its pretty incredible he's as good as he is, and he always comes back as good if not better. Ronaldo has been the best player over the last year or so, but so far this season that honour is squarely with Messi, and I think that's a sign to come. I'd rather praise the both of them though, than continually try to beat one of them with the other
No-one who watches Messi regularly and who has an ounce of a clue would say anything other than that that he is a sensational player
I'm not forgetting Ronaldos achievments, even though i don't think he is the better player i still think he should win the award for his contribution to Uniteds exellent 2007/08 season.They're both brilliant players but the Messi fans go way way over the top when talking about him. I love watching Messi play and since I got sky a couple of months ago I've seen a few Barcelona games and he's been fantastic but like Ronaldo or Kaka he's had quiet games where nothing's really happened much for him and games where he's been unplayable.
For me, with the form he's in at the moment, he is the best player on Earth (after Rafael
The difference for me is i haven't seen Ronaldo give a performance where i've sat back and thought "he was brilliant". Even last season when he scored so many goals i don't remember him truely dominating a game the way Messi can.
The game against Valladolid last week was a great example, Messi didn't score but his all round play was rediculous, he barely gave the ball away, he shredded the opposition defense and created maybe 5? totally red carpet clean cut chances for team mates to score. Chances they should score.
This is one of the reason i like messi because when he plays well there is nothing else like him, the way he dominates a game. He even wins the ball back for his team mates, he doesn't go down under every challenge and rarely do you see him vent his frustrations.
Ronaldo has changed his game. The Messi we see now was more comparable to the Ronaldo of 06/07, where he would actually dominate a game from start to finish. Now, it seems that he's completed his tranformation into the complete forward and become far more productive in terms of goals.
I preferred the 06/07 Ronaldo personally, yet even he couldn't dominate a game like Messi currently can. This is why this "42 goals" nonsense always annoys me. It's an absolutely amazing achievement, but it's become quite evident that people are using it as some sort of infallible argument to say he's a better footballer than Messi. There's far more to Messi than basic productivity, yet he's not exactly goal shy either.
Agree with all of that. Ronaldo of 06/07 was definitely better than he was last season and the closest you'll get to a consistent Giggsy. Some people can't see past goals in football.
You can't really say Ronaldo 06-07 > Ronaldo 07-08 but he was surely more entertaining
Yes he was. He was a fantastic player and at the time when he was at his best some would have considered him to be the best player in the world. If you have Cantona there then Gullit certainly deserves to be there.
The thing is from the day Messi took to the pitch in a Barca strip aged 17 he has been a consistent player, a goal scorer and a creater. There hasn't been a wild jump in his contribution in the same way Ronaldo transformed as a player because there was never a "no end product" phase in his development.
Naturally he is always improving and this season he has started with alot of goals but i don't think that's ever going to be the main feature of his game, he will always get his fair share of goals but it is his all round team play that makes him stand out.
Now, if you really believe that shit, watch a replay of United's match today against Stoke. I've never seen a match in which Ronaldo has gone down so much. Diving all over the place.
I hope you watched the match today
Well done DRTo be fair here Dipper, Ronaldo was our best player and man of the match (in some other peoples opinions thats gone to Carrick and Fletcher), but that wasn't anything Messi hasn't been putting in. In fact had Ronaldo scored neither of those free kicks, and lets face it Sorensen hasn't exactly covered himself in glory for either of them, you'd probably have some saying it was a dissapointing displayI hope you watched the match today
Just a delight to have two such brilliant players in the modern game
Isn't Walcott supposed to be better than Messi?
It's irrelevant anyway, Ronaldo is up there on his own at the moment.
It's irrelevant anyway, Ronaldo is up there on his own at the moment.
and one of them playing for us
FV is a fecking cock.
Yeah, cracking game from United, whole team played well and Ronaldo was very good. Two well struck free kicks and he was a threat all game.I hope you watched the match today
Who do you support FranklyVulgar ? As a team I mean
Kilmarnock.
Just seen a piece of play which helps highlight just what a player Messi is, and why he's so dangerous. He just had a dribble towards the Recreativo box, showing exceptional ball control and dribbling skill in a tight space. He took it past a couple of players, and at the point he played a pass into Henry, there were FIVE opposition players within a yard or two of Messi, all looking at hime wondering where he's going next. Leaving Henry free to take a touch and put the ball away. But scandelously Henry had moved into an offside position, and he put it over the bar anyway
He's alright.
had a good game today, a bit quiet in the first half, but got involved more as the game went on. Beta should've seen a red for that tackle on him. Barca look like they mean business this season. Good to see Pique also getting games for a top team.
Another match winning performance from Messi tonight. Recreativo did a great job pressing and closing the space in the first half but when barca came out with a bit more zip in the 2nd they showed their class. None more so than Messi, creative and a constant threat with a few moments of "what the hell was that?!" thrown in too.
It's amazing how in a team so full of top players Messi can still look head and shoulders above them all.
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