Lionel Messi

De Portago

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I feel you'd get similar results from any neutral league. This whole forced "Ronaldo vs Messi" fan debate more or less seems moot among people who are actually professionally involved in football.
 

Bole Top

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Zehner

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Feel sorry for everyone who's unable to recognize that he's still easily the best player in the world. 80% of those goals were at least very difficult ones, either because ofnthe link up play/dribblings that created the chance in the first place or because the quality of the finishing. Almost 0 poacher goals. Add to that the assists and his overall contribution and you can hardly find an argument for anyone else. The discussions about who would deserve the Ballon D'Or more than him are primarily born out of boredom.
 

Baneofthegame

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Feel sorry for everyone who's unable to recognize that he's still easily the best player in the world. 80% of those goals were at least very difficult ones, either because ofnthe link up play/dribblings that created the chance in the first place or because the quality of the finishing. Almost 0 poacher goals. Add to that the assists and his overall contribution and you can hardly find an argument for anyone else. The discussions about who would deserve the Ballon D'Or more than him are primarily born out of boredom.
5 were pens, that’s 20% right there.

Anyway, pettiness aside, I still think his side foots from the edge of the area are iconic. Unbelievable player, even when he’s supposedly “declining”.

I’d take him here in a heartbeat.
 

Zehner

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5 were pens, that’s 20% right there.

Anyway, pettiness aside, I still think his side foots from the edge of the area are iconic. Unbelievable player, even when he’s supposedly “declining”.

I’d take him here in a heartbeat.
Fair enough. Still, the density of top goals is just incredibly high.
 

Shamana

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Feel sorry for everyone who's unable to recognize that he's still easily the best player in the world. 80% of those goals were at least very difficult ones, either because ofnthe link up play/dribblings that created the chance in the first place or because the quality of the finishing. Almost 0 poacher goals. Add to that the assists and his overall contribution and you can hardly find an argument for anyone else. The discussions about who would deserve the Ballon D'Or more than him are primarily born out of boredom.
Mostly surprised about how many freekicks he scored again this season. He must be quite high on the all time list now.
 

GenZRed

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I just wish people would appreciate him and Ronald and how lucky we are to have such gifted players playing in the same era instead of Ronald v Messi: Who is better? Non-stop for the past 10+ years.
 

Hernandez - BFA

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I was shocked how many "stunners" he scored this season before watching that season. Had no idea how many goals he's scored that show a high degree of difficulty/"a lot to do". 5 penalties and 1/2 "tap ins" a side, most of them are goals some players would be proud to call their best career goal.

We don't have much time left of him now I'm sure. Juve are doing the right thing with Ronaldo by trying to get him to win another CL with a 3rd team.
Barca seem to not have a club what to do. Absolute shitshow. Given how they lost the league, will be interesting to see how they work this transfer window.
 

Shamana

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For the people who thinks that Messi should have been a journeyman instead of a one-club man they never tell me which move would have made sense in his life? He is La Mazia product and I saw a pundit say something as stupid as he had to move to Real Madrid to prove he is the goat, as if Messi who is already a god in Barcelona would ever make the forbidden move. During 2005-2008 he was in a great enviroment for development. During the Pep years both Barcelona stature was elevated to the best in the world and Messi became the best in the world and was quickly talked about as the potential best of all time. I've just never seen a move that would make sense for him. First of all the buying club would have to afford his transfer fee which would be almost unlimited during his prime, then his salary, better team mates and a better weather/city to live in. There's just for me never been a logical move for him. IMO a prime Messi wouldn't want to move to a plastic oil club just to cash in, I think he might do that when he's regressed to enough to no longer being the best player in the world. Man Utd never made sense since he's humilated us so many times. Neither Chelsea or City either. Liverpool now are currently the best UK team, but could they afford his salary and I don't think he would fit in with Klopp's extremely high pressing system at his age. Going to play for Bayern or Juve in his prime for me never makes any sense either. Maybe when he's 35, I could see him going to PSG, the MLS or China to cash depending on how good his condition is. He could probably play as a regista at 35 in any team, but I think when he's no longer the best in the world, he'll either retire or look to cash in.
 
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jamesjimmybyrondean

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For the people who thinks that Messi should have been a journeyman instead of a one-club man ever tell me which move would have made sense in his life? He is La Mazia product and I saw a pundit say something as stupid as he had to move to Real Madrid to prove he is the goat, as if Messi who is already a god in Barcelona would ever make the forbidden move. During 2005-2008 he was in great enviroment for development. During the Pep years both Barcelona stature was elevated to the best in the world and Messi became the best in the world and was quickly talked about as the potential best of all time. I've just never seen a move that would make sense for him. First of all the buying club would have to afford his transfer fee which would be almost unlimited during his prime, then his salary, better team mates and a better weather/city to live in. There's just for me never been a logical move for him. IMO a prime Messi wouldn't want to move to a plastic oil club just to cash in, I think might do that when he's regressed to enough to no longer being the best player in the world. Man Utd never made sense since he's humilated us so many times. Neither Chelsea or City either. Liverpool now are currently the best UK team, but could they afford his salary and I don't think he would fit in with Klopp's extremely high pressing system at his age. Going to play for Bayern or Juve in his prime for me never makes any sense either. Maybe when he's 35, I could see him going to PSG, the MLS or China to cash depending on how good his condition is. He could probably play as a regista at 35 in any team, but I think when he's no longer the best in the world, he'll either retire or look to cash in.
I also think he feels he owes his footballing career or life even to Barcelona. So it's a bit personal for him
 

MalcolmTucker

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Has a club ever even made a bid for him?

Only one I know is Capello asking to have him on loan when he was 17.
 

Lay

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Has a club ever even made a bid for him?

Only one I know is Capello asking to have him on loan when he was 17.
I think Anzhi did when they had that brief period of spending millions on Eto’o, Willian and co
 

MalcolmTucker

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That's quite illuminating.

No excuses then, if he was really great he should have gone out of his comfort zone and dominated the Russian, Scottish and French 7th tier leagues.
 

MS4

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I just wish people would appreciate him and Ronald and how lucky we are to have such gifted players playing in the same era instead of Ronald v Messi: Who is better? Non-stop for the past 10+ years.
There would not be any discussion if those would just accept that Messi is the best. Its just a 1v1 cause Ronaldo is the only one coming close
 

trims

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At 33 he's still schooling the worlds best defenders. Hard to see that Barca team get past Bayern no matter what he does in that game.
 

VP

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It's staggering how much he's normalized brilliance that goals like yesterday don't even generate a reaction on this thread.
 

11101

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For the people who thinks that Messi should have been a journeyman instead of a one-club man they never tell me which move would have made sense in his life? He is La Mazia product and I saw a pundit say something as stupid as he had to move to Real Madrid to prove he is the goat, as if Messi who is already a god in Barcelona would ever make the forbidden move. During 2005-2008 he was in a great enviroment for development. During the Pep years both Barcelona stature was elevated to the best in the world and Messi became the best in the world and was quickly talked about as the potential best of all time. I've just never seen a move that would make sense for him. First of all the buying club would have to afford his transfer fee which would be almost unlimited during his prime, then his salary, better team mates and a better weather/city to live in. There's just for me never been a logical move for him. IMO a prime Messi wouldn't want to move to a plastic oil club just to cash in, I think he might do that when he's regressed to enough to no longer being the best player in the world. Man Utd never made sense since he's humilated us so many times. Neither Chelsea or City either. Liverpool now are currently the best UK team, but could they afford his salary and I don't think he would fit in with Klopp's extremely high pressing system at his age. Going to play for Bayern or Juve in his prime for me never makes any sense either. Maybe when he's 35, I could see him going to PSG, the MLS or China to cash depending on how good his condition is. He could probably play as a regista at 35 in any team, but I think when he's no longer the best in the world, he'll either retire or look to cash in.
City were the obvious choice when Pep went there, or Bayern. The time has passed now, nobody will build a team around him at his age, and subsequently he will always have that question mark.

It wouldn't be a criticism if he had ever reached even half his peak level with the national team.
 

Daysleeper

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City were the obvious choice when Pep went there, or Bayern. The time has passed now, nobody will build a team around him at his age, and subsequently he will always have that question mark.

It wouldn't be a criticism if he had ever reached even half his peak level with the national team.
Criticizing him for staying with one team is legit the most moronic criticism possible. Gerrard, giggs didn’t do it, neither should messi. Plus, players leaving from one best team in the league to another doesn’t mean much. It’s like if Ronaldo said he was going to psg or Bayern. It’s more of the same in regards to domestic titles.
 

fps

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Criticizing him for staying with one team is legit the most moronic criticism possible. Gerrard, giggs didn’t do it, neither should messi. Plus, players leaving from one best team in the league to another doesn’t mean much. It’s like if Ronaldo said he was going to psg or Bayern. It’s more of the same in regards to domestic titles.
Yes it’s idiocy.

Anyway, away from these idiots who feel you have to pick one or the other....

What a performance from Messi last night. He turned it on for half an hour then spent the rest of the night conserving energy for the challenges to come.
 

11101

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Criticizing him for staying with one team is legit the most moronic criticism possible. Gerrard, giggs didn’t do it, neither should messi. Plus, players leaving from one best team in the league to another doesn’t mean much. It’s like if Ronaldo said he was going to psg or Bayern. It’s more of the same in regards to domestic titles.
Criticising him for staying with one team is daft, questioning whether he can perform outside one single environment is valid.
 

Ish

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Criticising him for staying with one team is daft, questioning whether he can perform outside one single environment is valid.
But he has performed for his NT? Of course not the Barca numbers, but who has put up those sort of numbers? I’m not sure where the notion comes from that he doesn’t perform for his NT. Unless you expect him to carry them to titles on his own all the time? Sure they’ve lost a shit load of finals. But that doesn’t equate to Messi = doesn’t perform for Argentina.
 

Zehner

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Criticising him for staying with one team is daft, questioning whether he can perform outside one single environment is valid.
Disagree. He has worked in multiple different environments. First, his position has changed throughout the years. He started as a RW then transformed into the false 9 under Guardiola, went back to being a RW, then played both as a 10 and a second striker under Valverde and is now back to playing RW. He's also worked in countless different match ups. There's recently been a great overview of his heat maps under different coaches. And there's also quite a good video on YouTube that provides a tactical analysis of how Messi's position adapted throughout the years based on his team mates because he's very variable in his starting spot. Also, the Barca teams throughout the years have changed a lot from a tactical perspective. Enrique, Valverde, Martino had a different understanding of football to Guardiola, Tito and Setien.

He's also proven himself for Argentina countless times. I can only assume those who say he hasn't been good enough never really followed his international career and only look at titles and maybe his lesser (but still impressive) goal stats for them. He was the single most success determining international player during his career for any international side. During the time he retied, Argentina had a complete meltdown.
 

11101

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But he has performed for his NT? Of course not the Barca numbers, but who has put up those sort of numbers? I’m not sure where the notion comes from that he doesn’t perform for his NT. Unless you expect him to carry them to titles on his own all the time? Sure they’ve lost a shit load of finals. But that doesn’t equate to Messi = doesn’t perform for Argentina.
When we are talking about whether he is the best player of all time, I think it is reasonable to expect him to carry a team. The others in that conversation have all done that.
 

pregra

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When we are talking about whether he is the best player of all time, I think it is reasonable to expect him to carry a team. The others in that conversation have all done that.
Have you not watched Barca these last three seasons? Greatest carrying job of all time
 

Feed Me

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It's staggering how much he's normalized brilliance that goals like yesterday don't even generate a reaction on this thread.
I haven’t been on a sports website this morning where they aren’t salivating over Messi. The guy gets his props every fecking game.
 

Ish

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When we are talking about whether he is the best player of all time, I think it is reasonable to expect him to carry a team. The others in that conversation have all done that.
But he does? At various points, he’s carried Barca for years and he’s carried the NT. Just been unable to get the NT over the line. And that’s where your teammates come in from time to time.