Under a clueless manager who nobody wanted to play under. We now have somebody worthy of stepping into SAF's shoes. It's a big fecking difference.
Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense
- Thread starter Wumminator
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
One good season doesn't make a player world class and the same goes for managers. Mata and Rooney have had several seasons playing at a high level. If you can't see the difference well then I just don't know.
Rooney and Mata world class is nonsense.
How is it nonsense?
Orwellian double-speak maths of the highest order.
Liverpool's supremacy over United last season wasn't just down to Liverpool's form over 2/3 months it was evident from the start of the season and the gap in points between the two teams naturally widened as Liverpool improved and United worsened. There's plenty of examples of teams keeping in touch with better teams only for it go wrong after Christmas. Liverpool were away to virtually all the top teams before Christmas - the second half was always going to be more plentiful.
Also, I wasn't 'goading' regarding United fans' "it'll be back to normal next season" attitude. It's a genuine belief that if LvG adopts the count-the-medals approach to squad management it'll go wrong as quickly as it did for Moyes.
Because they are not world class! That suggests they are Messi level, which they aren't by a long way.
Liverpool don't have a single world class player I admit but it's a term used far too freely on "good to very good players"
Quite apart from anything else Mata hasn't performed at a high level for any length of time, he couldn't even get in Chelsea's team. Not that he isn't a very good player, world class is on another level.
We seem to be operating on the basis that all events last season will have no impact on the new season. #flashinthepan
So you need to be at Messi/Ronaldo levels to be considered world class in your book?
No player will ever be world class again if that was the case. Those players are on another planet.
OK, fine. But why are you ignoring Liverpool's own manager who has made a "big fecking difference"?
Again, it seems that all the variables we are playing with here only seem to garner positives for United while Liverpool are all set for failure.
I don't think Liverpool have a player as good as Mata or RVP. I think most would concur with that.
I think we can agree that Mata is not world class, no?So you need to be at Messi/Ronaldo levels to be considered world class in your book?
No player will ever be world class again if that was the case. Those players are on another planet.
As long as Mata is better on paper I will agree with it all day long. He was bang average from January.
I'm not ignoring anything. Rodgers still has a lot to prove and I mean a lot. He deserves credit, but this 'quality' manager thing is rubbish.
Depends on the circumstances, last season I would say we had players as good (if not better). Whether that will remain so over a length of time I can't deny is debatable.
Surely you can recognise that Moyes had a big part to play in a lot of our players' poor performances? Mata is a brilliant player.
No doubt, form wise, your team was streaks ahead of United's. But, hypothetically, if we're talking both teams on top form, I'd go with United.
If we just want to get bogged down in semantics of what quality means then it's a pointless discussion. However, if you want to reduce Rodgers' remarkable work with a shallow squad then I see that as foolhardy. Nobody has ever suggested he's the done deal but credit where it's due given what he's done to the surprise of everyone.
Mata was sat on the bench at Chelsea for months before joining us. Of course he wasn't going to come in at his world class level straight away.
I don't have a problem with that, though after last season you would admit you have a lot to prove. I mean if United had so many "world class" players, surely irrespective of the merits of the manager that would shine through wouldn't it?
Talking about teams on form, I'm happy with what Liverpool did last season while in form. Few could touch us.
Thanks!
If you really think your pre-Xmas performance was good, then fine. I'd be happy to see you play like that next season.
I would take the Liverpool of last season ahead of the Arsenal of last season any day.
Indeed, pivoted around perhaps the best player in the world at that point.
Nobody has said that we have 'many' world class players, but we do have more than you currently. Also, you've never seen top players under-perform under a clueless and manager of very little respect at the highest level? then again very few clubs of our stature would take a risk like that. At least we've put things right now though.
Depends. Currently, he isn't. But would you argue he wasn't when he was played at Chelsea?
World class literally means ranking amongst the best in the world. Mata was easily amongst the best number 10's in the world during his time in London. He's still only 26, plenty of time to regain that tag.
We don't have in my mind any world class players, but you don't have hardly any either.
It depends on the definition, you say Mata is I would say Sturridge is - on last seasons form.
To my mind both are very good players, neither "world class".
You have on paper an extremely good manager now, can't deny that after last season. But it's too early to say everything is alright now, sure you will be stronger but it's a tough league to call just now.
Also our lack of world class talent nearly took us to the title last season - of course you have to do that consistently - but it's the team/squad that's more important. The latter let us down last season but the manager is now building on that and the depth of squad is getting stronger.
I suppose Suarez was our world class player, how we get on without him we will have to see.
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I think most observers would say it was your one world class talent that almost took you to the title.
Most would, and he is gone. Let's see how we do now.
Meh. I think that's lazy.
We were a lot less reliant on Suarez in the second half of the season. The second half of the season was all about the team running rampant. Sturridge was excellent, Sterling became better and better, Coutinho bossed teams and Gerrard settled masterfully into the deeper role with Lucas out. Mostly, it was about a unit from midfield to attack that all had the quality and tactical understanding to execute our attacking gameplan to great effect. As a team, we just moved the ball too quickly and too well for teams to cope.
Suarez was a great cog in that machine but he wasn't the pivot it revolved around. Actually, by the end of the season, Sterling was becoming the go-to guy when other players weren't really sure what to do with the ball.
From the time he came back from suspension up until december, Suarez was an absolute one-man show though. We were treading water for a top 4 challenge before he came back and he was basically ending teams singlehandedly for a good 10-12 games straight or so.
So whilst I am happy to say we'd be nowhere near a title challenge without him, I don't think it's accurate to say that the team we saw in the second half of the season, which was by far the best football we played, was highly reliant on Suarez to function. You could throw in another very good player around Sterling/Suarez' level and it'd still work to a similar effect.
I think that's his point, that you require a player of that quality, which with him gone, you don't currently quite have.
Some of that may be true, but I do think you guys are underestimating the impact that Suarez' presence alone has on the opposition. It scares them. It was the same when we had Ronaldo and when RVP was in the form of his life the season before last.
You don't have that player opposition will be talking 24/7 in the dressing room. That player that distracts defenders from paying attention to anyone else on the pitch.
This. What a bizarre comment by johnny boy...
I believe we're still looking for signing more on the level of Shaqiri or similar. That will be more than good enough. Doesn't need to be a Suarez level player to maintain the dynamic.
Otherwise, we'll need to cross our fingers that Markovic hits the ground running and that Lallana was just waiting for a better team to shine in to make another step up.
I have some hope Sterling will become that. He's already every fullbacks nightmare as it is.
Kinda sucks for him that we're halfway needing him to be that guy already though.
Pre-Christmas form? Liverpool were top on Christmas Day. I'd take that as well.
One of the Liverpool supporters, what will be the plan for Jordan Rossiter next season? I assume he's too young to go on loan or anything. Will he get a look-in for some friendlies? He's really rated on FM and usually becomes a star.
He played yesterday against Brondby , the first 45 mins. Only recently signed a professional contract, still just a kid at 17. Can see him playing in the U21s this season.
Oh right. I didn't realise he played yesterday. Didn't see his name mentioned so i'm assuming he didn't do a whole lot then.
Hard to say, against a team well in advance of pre-season work as their league campaign starts next weekend. Just building up on fitness I suppose.
Others such as Ibe, Smith and Petersen stood out more, but we played a very young team and he is only 17.
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Think he'll get a bit of league cup action and that is it. Great talent, but he's a 17 year old midfielder....