Liverpool - 2017/18

[Rafateria]

Time for a new thread I guess. Rather than dragging up last season's.

Liverpool have agreed a €40M (£35M) fee with Roma for the transfer of Mohamed Salah and the deal is expected to be made official shortly according to multiple reports today, with BeIN Sports and Sky Italia both claiming that a return to England for Salah is now a certainty.

This follows earlier reports in the English press that the player had agreed a £90k per week deal with Liverpool and was eager to complete his transfer following talks with manager Jürgen Klopp. However, the most recent reports from journalists with ties to Liverpool have only said that the two clubs are still negotiating. Still, Salah’s transfer to Liverpool as the club’s first major signing of the summer increasingly looks a question of when, not if.

Salah has excelled as a scoring winger since landing at Roma in 2015 on loan from Chelsea. In 2015-16 he scored 14 goals and eight assists in 34 Serie A appearances for a goal involvement every 124 minutes. In 2016-17 Roma made his move permanent and he scored 15 goals and 13 assists for a goal involvement every 89 minutes.

 

[VorZakone]

Salah is a good buy. But they need to strengthen their defense.

 

[Raw]

So where will he play? On the right? What about Mane?

 

[Rafateria]

So where will he play? On the right? What about Mane?

He can play on the left or right.

e.g.

Salah ............. Firmino ............... Mane
..........(if we don't buy a new CF)

..................... Countino

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

Salah-Manè upfront. Terrific pace for them!

 

[Parry Gallister]

Solid buy, but they were largely fine for goals already, need to strengthen in other areas quite significantly.

 

[Lizard]

It's not even mid-June, and already the famous cracks in our transfer policy are showing. It really is dumb how the club uses Echo to express interest in players when season is not yet over, giving everyone with more money and better team a chance to look at those players and then swoop in as soon as window's open.
My guess is Salah will arrive soon, but from that point on I don't see us getting any of our other targets. I think VVD's already at Etihad at this point, and the lack of Keita-related rumours pretty much show we've failed at Leipzig too.

Best case scenario we're going to get few people in on a free and hope for the best, worse case scenario Salah's our last signing. I don't see us getting anyone else since our targets have been known since winter, so as is fairly usual for our policy, if we fail at our primary targets, we either sign players that are much, much worse, or we pull out of negotiations, manager says "that's it." and we don't look back, starting our season as a weaker team.

My guess is this season that's exactly what's going to happen, and come October people will already talk about how winter window cannot come soon enough. It's just that FSG life I guess, but I do hope I'm wrong for once.

 

[Lizard]

So where will he play? On the right? What about Mane?

I actually get angry sometimes when I hear that question from Liverpool fans, because it just sounds like they don't want squad depth and thus validate lack of real transfer policy. Think it's irrelevant what happens to Mane because Klopp wants his attackers to play fluidly and not focus on playing orthodox positions, and because if we have such an insane depth at one wing spot, then that can only be good for our CL credentials.

 

[Dumbstar]

Solid buy, but they were largely fine for goals already, need to strengthen in other areas quite significantly.

Problem was from January to May when our goals dried up. No Mane, no glory. Salah has both the pace and goals that we missed when Mane was out. When both are fit then one can play a different role. Mane for example was brilliant in the number 10 role for the short while he played there.

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

What about defenders?

 

[beckbeck]

I think Salah will be a bench strengthener, not a starter per se.

 

[Dumbstar]

What about defenders?

Need two class CBs but ain't gonna happen. I'll be over the moon if we can get VVD.

 

[Infordin]

In an ideal world they get Van Dijk and a good left back so they line-up like this:

Mignolet
Clyne - Matip - VVD - Left Back
Can
Lallana - Coutinho
Mane - Firmino - Salah

 

[GlastonSpur]

Need two class CBs but ain't gonna happen. I'll be over the moon if we can get VVD.

Yes, he would be a very good signing for you - probably the most important position you need to strengthen in.

 

[Cheesy]

I can see them doing surprisingly well in the Champions League but having a poor league season.

 

[Liver_bird]

Keita
Van dijk
Salah
Lb
One more CM. Hopefully rafinha.

Depending on sales will probably need one more first xi quality player too possibly more. Mane can play on the left and I suspect he will. Not at all confident though, been burned by FSG too many times. This summer is the litmus test of their ambitions do or die.

 

[Attila]

I can see them doing surprisingly well in the Champions League but having a poor league season.

If they have great luck in the draw then yeah maybe

Pot 1 - Madrid, Bayern, Chelsea, Juve, Benfica, Monaco, Spartak, Shaktar
Pot 2 - Barca, Atletico, PSG, Dortmund, Sevilla, City, Porto, United
Pot 3 - Liverpool, Spurs

 

[RobinLFC]

CB - Under the radar signing that would actually improve our defense immediately
LB - Attacking minded LB, not someone who fills in for Milner once in a while
CM - Keita
Winger - Salah
Striker - Lacazette

Those are the five areas we need to improve in. Obviously Lacazette is a very long shot (we're meeting with his representatives next week apparently) and I'd be over the moon with Keita, but we need to aim high this time. Leander Dendoncker would be a very, very good buy as well and wouldn't cost more than £25m max. Don't really know who we could buy as a striker that would displace Firmino because he obviously fits Klopp's philosophy, but Origi isn't good enough and Sturridge is more injured than not, so we definitely need an additional striker (not counting on Ings and Solanke before I see them in action).

LB and RB are two of the most important positions in football today and I feel both Clyne and Milner don't offer enough going forward - I hope to see more of Alexander-Arnold at RB next year and an attacking minded LB making overlaps and good runs in behind (one that can actually defend as well, not another Alberto Moreno). There are enough good options around who wouldn't cost a fortune: Jonas Hector, Jose Gaya, Alejandro Grimaldo, Nelson Semedo, even Bertrand although I'd rather not another Soton Englishman).

A few squad fillers will be necessary as well since we're lacking squad depth and we'll have an additional European competition next year (hopefully CL, fingers crossed). Solanke is a good one in that regard because he can develop and play in League Cup games for example. Shouldn't be player that cost more than

Mignolet
Arnold Matip Tah Gaya
Henderson
Keita Lallana
Mane Lacazette Coutinho

Bench: Karius, Clyne, Milner, Lovren, Can, Salah, Lucas, Woodburn​

 

[clarkydaz]

I think Salah will be a bench strengthener, not a starter per se.

dont see Liverpool spending those prices on squad players

 

[Klopper76]

We need a striker, a CB and a left back. Another midfielder wouldn't hurt either.

I don't know what to make of the Salah deal. His numbers in Italy look good but he never got a look in at Chelsea so it's hard to call.

It's a big summer for us regardless.

 

[RobinLFC]

We need a striker, a CB and a left back. Another midfielder wouldn't hurt either.

I don't know what to make of the Salah deal. His numbers in Italy look good but he never got a look in at Chelsea so it's hard to call.

It's a big summer for us regardless.

Neither did KdB to be fair, sometimes things just don't work out. I think Salah could thrive under Klopp.

I agree though, big summer ahead. If Klopp doesn't get backing at this point or we aren't able to land any of our priority targets, I fear we're going to be stuck in the same old cycle.

 

[Tommy]

dont see Liverpool spending those prices on squad players

Indeed. At £35m, Salah will be a starter for sure.

 

[Blind]

There's no way they're paying £35m for a squad player Salah's far too good for that anyway. They're definitely targeting the right players, it's 100% Klopp's team now.

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

Salah is a really good start to the window. There'll be a few more in before the end of the summer. So far, Klopp's transfer activity makes a lot more sense than any of our managers since Rafa.

It's not even mid-June, and already the famous cracks in our transfer policy are showing. It really is dumb how the club uses Echo to express interest in players when season is not yet over, giving everyone with more money and better team a chance to look at those players and then swoop in as soon as window's open.
My guess is Salah will arrive soon, but from that point on I don't see us getting any of our other targets. I think VVD's already at Etihad at this point, and the lack of Keita-related rumours pretty much show we've failed at Leipzig too.

Best case scenario we're going to get few people in on a free and hope for the best, worse case scenario Salah's our last signing. I don't see us getting anyone else since our targets have been known since winter, so as is fairly usual for our policy, if we fail at our primary targets, we either sign players that are much, much worse, or we pull out of negotiations, manager says "that's it." and we don't look back, starting our season as a weaker team.

My guess is this season that's exactly what's going to happen, and come October people will already talk about how winter window cannot come soon enough. It's just that FSG life I guess, but I do hope I'm wrong for once.

Do you feel like you have to be really critical because you're on a Man Utd forum? Because that's how you come across.

It's not even mid June and it sounds like you already need to get the Valium out.

 

[Rafateria]

I don't know what to make of the Salah deal. His numbers in Italy look good but he never got a look in at Chelsea so it's hard to call.

To be honest I'm not 100% sold on this but to be fair he was only 21 yrs old whilst at Chelsea and Mourinho didn't give him too many games as a starter - was it about 27 over 2 seasons ?

Also to clarify the type of player he is : he looks perfect for a Klopp system, a pressing, pacy, flexible, technically-gifted forward who can play across the front (LM, !0, RM) and he is primarily left footed (but his right isn't useless), who will sit on the defender's shoulder and run clear (something we haven't got without Mane or a fully fit Sturridge, who now relies on guile more than pace).

 

[Rafateria]

There's no way they're paying £35m for a squad player Salah's far too good for that anyway. They're definitely targeting the right players, it's 100% Klopp's team now.

Exactly. It will 100% be his team and not just lip service to that effect, after this window. It's more than possible, in fact a certainty, we won't get all of our targets so there will be compromises (as with all teams) e.g although there are rumours that VVD is going to City for £60m (too much) there's still a chance according to statements attributed to VVD that the project not the money is more important to him (though many players say the same thing, before taking the money).
Arsenal still seems to be the more likely destination for Lacazette (despite the rumours we're having £50m talks and that Sakho could be a make-weight - how often do those two way transfers actually work out though) as the completely foreseeable failure to capture MBappe underlines that Arsenal are going to splash the cash on a CF and as MBappe is out of the question then Lacazette, previously on their radar, is the obvious backup. I'd have multiple orgasms for an hour if we were to get him though, since I've been banging on about him for ages and ages. Definitely a Klopp type player as far as the effort he puts in, though a pipe-dream. Dolberg is likely more our level I feel.

 

[Rafateria]

CB - Under the radar signing that would actually improve our defense immediately
LB - Attacking minded LB, not someone who fills in for Milner once in a while
CM - Keita
Winger - Salah
Striker - Lacazette

LB and RB are two of the most important positions in football today and I feel both Clyne and Milner don't offer enough going forward - I hope to see more of Alexander-Arnold at RB next year and an attacking minded LB making overlaps and good runs in behind (one that can actually defend as well, not another Alberto Moreno). There are enough good options around who wouldn't cost a fortune: Jonas Hector, Jose Gaya, Alejandro Grimaldo, Nelson Semedo, even Bertrand although I'd rather not another Soton Englishman).

A few squad fillers will be necessary as well since we're lacking squad depth and we'll have an additional European competition next year (hopefully CL, fingers crossed). Solanke is a good one in that regard because he can develop and play in League Cup games for example. Shouldn't be player that cost more than

Mignolet
Arnold Matip Tah Gaya
Henderson
Keita Lallana
Mane Lacazette Coutinho

Bench: Karius, Clyne, Milner, Lovren, Can, Salah, Lucas, Woodburn​

Agree with 90% of this. Exactly those 5 positions we need to strengthen in the first team this window with the incumbents dropping to the bench. So assuming Salah happens that's 1 down 4 to go.

I'd love to AA take RB, a far better attacking player than Clyne, but defensively and obviously as far as experience goes, Clyne is going to be the preferred option most of the coming season however I hope that AA has improved enough to make the position his own by the season's end. This however does become less pressing with Mane (or Salah for some matches) ahead of him for most games so I'm not bothered about this at all now.

As far as LB is concerned Kieran Tierney is very highly rated and ticks most of the boxes (pace, attacking intent, positional sense and quality) and wouldn't burn too big a hole in our pocket leaving more for CF, CB and CM. Digne, Robertson, De Sciglio are other options, so there seem to be a fair number of good options around that would all improve the balance of the team, now Sessegnon is off the radar. Gaya has a £45m buy out clause and with a contract to 2020 could be beyond what we're willing to pay for a LB.

CB I covered above. Still mildly (but dwindling) hopeful of VVD. Rather fewer options there and far more teams with more money than us are looking for a CB (United, City, Chelsea, PSG for starters).

Although Keita has made sounds about staying at RBL I'd hope that the supposedly £200k a week and £45-50m may be enough to turn his head though RB may fight tooth and nail with the CL (pot 4) next season, money isn't a real issue for them either but they have already brought in cover from their feeder club Salzburg.

I'm very worried about Henderson too. He mostly did really well over the season with the games he played however his plantar fasciitis is not going away and he'll inevitably break down again (I'll guess he'll spend 1/3 to 1/2 the season missing again). Keita (or A.N.Other) / Henderson / Can /Wijnaldum / Ejaria is cover for central midfield and decent enough strength in depth for all competitions.

So ideally for most matches in the PL (diamond):

Mignolet
Clyne Matip VVD Kierney(Bertrand)
Henderson Keita
Coutinho
Mane Lacazette Salah
(more likely Firmino)

Bench options from: Karius, AA, Milner, Lovren, Gomez (rumours of £20m transfer ?), Klavan (OK for 4th/5th CB I guess), Can (rumours of £25m transfer to Italy, too low for sure, but I think Klopp really likes him anyway and wouldn't sell), Wijnaldum, Ejaria, Grujic, Lallana, Lucas (can't really see a place for him if we keep our current midfielders and strengthen at CB - guess he'll go), Sturridge (unless we get an offer North of £30-35m), Origi, Solanke, Ings, Woodburn. Too many strikers, especially if we get Lacazette or A.N.Other so one or two will go.

I also see 4-3-3 for matches versus the better teams we'll face :


Mignolet
Clyne Matip VVD Kierney(Bertrand)
Henderson
Keita Wijnaldum
Salah Mane Coutinho
(using the players above then slot in Lacazette or another or Firmino somewhere - lots of options depending on injuries).
​

 

[Kurosawa]

Agree with 90% of this. Exactly those 5 positions we need to strengthen in the first team this window with the incumbents dropping to the bench. So assuming Salah happens that's 1 down 4 to go.

I'd love to AA take RB, a far better attacking player than Clyne, but defensively and obviously as far as experience goes, Clyne is going to be the preferred option most of the coming season however I hope that AA has improved enough to make the position his own by the season's end. This however does become less pressing with Mane (or Salah for some matches) ahead of him for most games so I'm not bothered about this at all now.

As far as LB is concerned Kieran Tierney is very highly rated and ticks most of the boxes (pace, attacking intent, positional sense and quality) and wouldn't burn too big a hole in our pocket leaving more for CF, CB and CM. Digne, Robertson, De Sciglio are other options, so there seem to be a fair number of good options around that would all improve the balance of the team, now Sessegnon is off the radar. Gaya has a £45m buy out clause and with a contract to 2020 could be beyond what we're willing to pay for a LB.

CB I covered above. Still mildly (but dwindling) hopeful of VVD. Rather fewer options there and far more teams with more money than us are looking for a CB (United, City, Chelsea, PSG for starters).

Although Keita has made sounds about staying at RBL I'd hope that the supposedly £200k a week and £45-50m may be enough to turn his head though RB may fight tooth and nail with the CL (pot 4) next season, money isn't a real issue for them either but they have already brought in cover from their feeder club Salzburg.

I'm very worried about Henderson too. He mostly did really well over the season with the games he played however his plantar fasciitis is not going away and he'll inevitably break down again (I'll guess he'll spend 1/3 to 1/2 the season missing again). Keita (or A.N.Other) / Henderson / Can /Wijnaldum / Ejaria is cover for central midfield and decent enough strength in depth for all competitions.

So ideally for most matches in the PL (diamond):

Mignolet
Clyne Matip VVD Kierney(Bertrand)
Henderson Keita
Coutinho
Mane Lacazette Salah
(more likely Firmino)

Bench options from: Karius, AA, Milner, Lovren, Gomez (rumours of £20m transfer ?), Klavan (OK for 4th/5th CB I guess), Can (rumours of £25m transfer to Italy, too low for sure, but I think Klopp really likes him anyway and wouldn't sell), Wijnaldum, Ejaria, Grujic, Lallana, Lucas (can't really see a place for him if we keep our current midfielders and strengthen at CB - guess he'll go), Sturridge (unless we get an offer North of £30-35m), Origi, Solanke, Ings, Woodburn. Too many strikers, especially if we get Lacazette or A.N.Other so one or two will go.

I also see 4-3-3 for matches versus the better teams we'll face :


Mignolet
Clyne Matip VVD Kierney(Bertrand)
Henderson
Keita Wijnaldum
Salah Mane Coutinho
(using the players above then slot in Lacazette or another or Firmino somewhere - lots of options depending on injuries).
​

Agree with most of your post. On Can though, we might not have a choice. Apparently Juventus are interested and they are master opportunists. Not to mention a much more attractive prospect than us at the moment.

Normally I wouldn't be bothered by losing a player at Can's level, but the problem is our less than stellar record at replacing the players we sell. We still haven't replaced Alonso almost a decade on. That's my first worry if Can were to leave.

The other concern is the fact that while Henderson and Can are around the same level (Decent players not amazing by any means) Can has far more of an upside. He has potential to be a very good player whereas Henderson will likely not get any better than the best we've ever seen from him. This is without even factoring the injury problems.

Even though it's unlikely my preference is we sell Henderson, who in this market could fetch well over 30m. Then we use those funds to buy a proper starting dm. Or if we are certain that Can is the man to take us forward in that position we give him the wages he commands and buy a player to compete with him at a fraction of what Henderson would sell for.

 

[redman5]

The downside to having Salah & Mane in the squad is that we run the risk of losing both players every other year for the AFCON.

 

[RobinLFC]

The downside to having Salah & Mane in the squad is that we run the risk of losing both players every other year for the AFCON.

Add Keita to that list should we get him, although I'm not quite sure how often Guinea actually qualifies.

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

Need two class CBs but ain't gonna happen. I'll be over the moon if we can get VVD.

VVD just went to City

 

[JustFootballFan]

I´d say Salah is a depth and strength investment. I think against deep sitting teams we´ll see Lallana/Coutinho in midfield together a lot, and with his pace Salah is also a good option against better teams on the break. So the signing makes sense. Of course it won´t help much, if they don´t strengthen their defensive unit. Also am I always suspicious of (very athletic) players suddenly doing well in the slower Italian game. Perisic is another, who was largely considered underwhelming at Dortmund and Wolfsburg.

 

[Lizard]

Do you feel like you have to be really critical because you're on a Man Utd forum? Because that's how you come across.

It's not even mid June and it sounds like you already need to get the Valium out.

I say the same thing irl, and I would've posted the same message on any given Liverpool fan forum. If you want to know how this is going to end, just look at the patterns, look at the last 4 or 5 transfer windows, especially when it comes to players such as Mkhitaryan, Willian, Salah, Brandt etc. etc. What happens every time is the club stalls negotiations and refuses to pay the asking price, then another club swoops in, and we end up going after couple of players from the PL that aren't that highly rated. This then results in disastrous seasons.

Again, I hope I'm wrong, but so far there's little difference between what Rodgers had to deal with in the window before his CL campaign, and what appears to be obstacles in Klopp's window before a massive campaign like that.

 

[PickledRed]

dont see Liverpool spending those prices on squad players

When you're in the thick of the CL everyone is a squad player to some extent. Klopp's intention is obviously to build a squad of good players who can compete at the weekend and midweek. That means you may not play every game, so become a squad player.

 

[UweBein]

Jonas Hector might be a viable option at LB. He has been linked multiple times with Liverpool and Chelsea.

 

[rocks13]

Need two class CBs but ain't gonna happen. I'll be over the moon if we can get VVD.

Is there any chance Sakho could come back into contention?

 

[Dumbstar]

Is there any chance Sakho could come back into contention?

So many bridges have been burnt but it still seems like we may have no choice.

 

[Amar__]

It will be interesting to see how will he do this time in England. He was excellent for Roma. You guys should have brought Dzeko with him though, they have great understanding.

 

[PickledRed]

I say the same thing irl, and I would've posted the same message on any given Liverpool fan forum. If you want to know how this is going to end, just look at the patterns, look at the last 4 or 5 transfer windows, especially when it comes to players such as Mkhitaryan, Willian, Salah, Brandt etc. etc. What happens every time is the club stalls negotiations and refuses to pay the asking price, then another club swoops in, and we end up going after couple of players from the PL that aren't that highly rated. This then results in disastrous seasons.

Again, I hope I'm wrong, but so far there's little difference between what Rodgers had to deal with in the window before his CL campaign, and what appears to be obstacles in Klopp's window before a massive campaign like that.

But last summer was pretty efficient in terms of targets. Obviously you won't get 100% hit rate but I thought it was a decent window. My point is that the "pattern" may not be a suitable guide as Klopp may be an added element to proceedings and he seems to not abide delay and procrastination.

 

[rocks13]

So many bridges have been burnt but it still seems like we may have no choice.

Surely wouldn't be a bad option if issues can be sorted out. He's not great on the ball which I guess Klopp isn't keen on but he's arguably the best defender out of Liverpool's current centre back options.