Their attack can function without Coutinho.
Coutinho's importance is when the team is struggling and they need a goal from nowhere.
Coutinho's importance is when the team is struggling and they need a goal from nowhere.
Liverpool - 2017/18
- Thread starter Rafateria
- Start date
Hmmmm...
Pool to offer "not far from $200M" for a poor-man´s Jonny Evans. Watch this space.
Same response (not from you necessarily) when I said Coutinho was our next £50m player about 3 years ago.
Fook man i wanted Barcelona in the group stages. At one point it looked likely
Expect them to walk their group. It's so easy.
But I thought they struggled against easy teams?
You can't honestly think that'll happen!
They won't walk shite, they'll finish 3rd.
Sure you did
There's a player that currently comes off our bench for us who's closer to Mane' level at 21 years of age, then Mane is to the players you mentioned.
He scored a lovely goal vs you lot.
Would be funny if it happened
Sell him to Barcelona for half the money and await the response.
I dare to believe you were thinking more based upon performance than due to crazy inflation.
I wonder what is more of a certainty, Barca making another bid tommorow the day before our game or us not signing anyone by next week. All the celebration from the qualifier and the decent group will be for absolute nothing if we don't pull out the warchest. I think if we don't sign anybody in the next couple of days I'll make my peace with the fact that Lovren and to a lesser extent the midfield is what we'll have to rely on this season. There were some tweets I saw earlier from people linked to the club like Aldridge who said we may be getting some news today. Let's see.
If reports regarding dembele are true that dortmond have agreed on £138 fee, i dont think they can afford both. coutinho isn't leaving.
Not bothered if he does leave, their problem is they can't defend to save their lives.
Mignolet dropped in favour of Karius, weird.
Just been hearing about this, not even in the squad..
You guys need a top keeper. Surprised you weren't in for Pickford.
clue is in 'top'.
Pickford is fantastic. He'll be Everton's best transfer from this window.
You lot will still be up there near the end, I reckon. You still find it easier than others to score.
Another Sakho situation? A bust-up on the training ground? Death in the family?
Thought Mignolet was poor against Watford, but decent later on, especially against Hoffenheim. Karius is once again tabula rasa, no idea what we can expect. He seemed to have improved based on our Audi Cup games, but that of course is not really evidence of anything.
From my point of view, last season Karius took the blame for atrocious defending at Bournemouth, especially from our midfielders, but wasn't even that bad in any of our other games. So I was surprised when fans turned on him and considered him a liability after one game, then went on and praised Mignolet for his improvement, after he cost us so many points in his short stint at the club.
Mignolet's attitude always sort of disturbed me. Here we have a player that made so many costly errors that his ability at shot stopping sometimes can't even shine through, and it's even easy to forget his penalty saves. But the way he goes about things even after all the errors is so bizarre. He seems to be way too relaxed in moments when the opposition is sprinting towards him and putting pressure on defenders, and some of his short passing could've resulted in goals too, if he wasn't lucky. He's not exactly playing it safe, and he does position himself poorly at corners a lot.
Not saying Karius is any better in that regard though, cause he's probably not.
Thought Mignolet was poor against Watford, but decent later on, especially against Hoffenheim. Karius is once again tabula rasa, no idea what we can expect. He seemed to have improved based on our Audi Cup games, but that of course is not really evidence of anything.
From my point of view, last season Karius took the blame for atrocious defending at Bournemouth, especially from our midfielders, but wasn't even that bad in any of our other games. So I was surprised when fans turned on him and considered him a liability after one game, then went on and praised Mignolet for his improvement, after he cost us so many points in his short stint at the club.
Mignolet's attitude always sort of disturbed me. Here we have a player that made so many costly errors that his ability at shot stopping sometimes can't even shine through, and it's even easy to forget his penalty saves. But the way he goes about things even after all the errors is so bizarre. He seems to be way too relaxed in moments when the opposition is sprinting towards him and putting pressure on defenders, and some of his short passing could've resulted in goals too, if he wasn't lucky. He's not exactly playing it safe, and he does position himself poorly at corners a lot.
Not saying Karius is any better in that regard though, cause he's probably not.
Pickford is class, he's been brilliant for Everton thus far and I reckon he'll be first choice for the World Cup.
Pickford's a cracking keeper.
You could always try to bid for De Gea or Neuer.
Or get another attacking midfielder and play them in goal.
Liverpool don't seem really changed from last season. They certainly added depth in their attack with Salah, something they will need this year with CL football, but I'm not sure they addressed the issues at the back. They could really do with a CB and a more reliable keeper.
They have a good enough squad to make top 4 if they keep Coutinho. Will they challenge for the title? I don't think so, but we'll see.
They have a good enough squad to make top 4 if they keep Coutinho. Will they challenge for the title? I don't think so, but we'll see.
Next year will be their year...
The timing is, him being dropped certainly isn't. Any in depth look at statistical analysis and I don't just mean the arbitrary save percentage stat, will show you that Migs is one of the worst keepers in the league. We don't give up many chances but for some reason the ones we do are always big chances, you want your GK to exceed his XP GA in that situation something De Gea, Lloris Courtois and the other top keepers all do. If you want to play the way we do you need a world class goalkeeper and world class defenders at the moment we're an injury away from relying on Klavan for an entire season so this doesn't surprise me.
Karius might turn out to be shit but we know for certain Migs is. I'd rather throw him in to the deep end and find out. The major concern I have is crosses in to the box and handling, that's the one are Mignolet has definitely actually improved at, it wasn't Karius's strength in the Bundesliga and this league will go after him. The timing of this is interesting and he's been completely jettisoned from the squad.
Seen earlier on reddit that Mignolet not happy with being dropped and that he will seek talks with Klopp and the board. Dunno if true, but apparently there's nothing wrong with him so it's a mystery why he's been dropped from the squad completely.
Migs comes for too much for me & then more occasionally he stays put when he should be catching quite comfortably - not a good combination.
And he can't inspire any confidence when the ball goes back to him - just about OK if he was hoofing the ball but I presume the instructios are for him to play out from the back at which he is not exactly tremendous.
And he can't inspire any confidence when the ball goes back to him - just about OK if he was hoofing the ball but I presume the instructios are for him to play out from the back at which he is not exactly tremendous.
He just doesn't save a lot unless they're routine. 10 games at the end of last season apart. He gets beaten from all sorts of angles.
Strange decision from Klopp, not that I think Mignolet will be anything more than an ok keeper at his best.
This'll turn out horribly if Karius has a shocker.
This'll turn out horribly if Karius has a shocker.
A RAWKITE reckoned he got beaten from more angles & places then a lot of the other GKs.
Kinda depends on how the chances / shooting compares & probably a tiny sample size - but y'know...
Migs is 'devastated' according to the Mail.
he done a far more mind boggling version of this with extensive diagramming - but this is not a bad read tbf if you like this sort of stuff
Migs Analysis
Migs Analysis
'As mentioned before, and I´ve talked about this a lot over multiple threads, I´ve always felt we have a bigger problem in Mignolet than just his errors and fear of crosses. There was always this statement that he was a great shot stopper but I just had this nagging doubt in my mind that it wasn´t true. I know nothing of goalkeeping, I had no way to present that as an argument that I could support other than to say "I disagree, I think he isn´t"... which isn´t much of an argument.
Then this summer I got access to some good expected goals data for the first time. Not one of those basic ones that Ted Knutsen uses either to just give a vague idea - this guy went into far more depth with his workings including type of assist, type of shot, pressure on shot taker, etc. I realised that expected goals against vs actual goals conceded could be a way of then measuring how good goalkeepers are at simply dealing with shots. Of course commanding goalkeepers like Courtois will actually reduce goals due to preventing shots in the first place. But at least I had something to try and either verify or quell my fears.
When I ran every team in England´s expected goals vs actual goals numbers, all the expected top keepers (e.g. De Gea, Lloris, Cech, Courtois) come out as performing above averages. Mignolet comes out in the bottom 3 in the league. I run them for other leagues, the top keepers rise to the surface (e.g. Oblak, Neuer, Navas). I run all seasons I have data for in England and year on year, Mignolet is in the bottom 3 in the Premier League. In fact the only goalkeepers who have an individual season worse than Mignolet does consistently is Guzan, Fabianski and Boruc. When the data is grouping Mignolet in with those names and grouping together the likes of Neuer, Oblak, De Gea, Lloris at the other end of the scale, you know you have a problem. Karius was creeping into the Neuer group the season we signed him.
I also came across a study of the average zones on the pitch goals are scored from and comparisons for each team to the average. Liverpools stood out simply because we concede goals for long range and angles far more than average. The only similar team was Man City when they switched from Hart to Bravo. In terms of expected goals they went from having someone who performed a scratch above average to someone who would be capable of hitting Mignolet numbers over the course of the season, although with Bravo he was never historically that bad and so part of that is likely the whole foreign keeper adjusting to more physical league with twice as much crosses per game. Likewise they went from conceding goals in a tight circle around the goal to conceding from almost anywhere in the box. Although still it wasn´t as large an area as Mignolet concedes from.
So, if this information is correct - and I have subsequently seen it corroborated by two other analytics sites - it points to two things.
hen when you put Karius under the microscope, he is (or was when signed) one of the strongest young goalkeepers in europe. He also has one of the quickest releases of the ball in the top leagues, compared to Mignolet who once held the ball for 22 seconds against Bordeaux. Karius kicks and throws are also much further than Mignolet also. He also favours throwing over kicking to launch quick attacks. I imagine, for a coach who wants to hurt teams in transitions, having a quick thinking goalkeeper is preferable to one who holds the ball until the opposition can reset their shape.
As mentioned before, Karius is particularly strong in all aspects of shot stopping where Mignolet was weak. However, that is just shot stopping. It remains to be seen can he be a commanding presence? Also they both shared the same weakness - crosses! Oh, and Karius is also the 17th best goalkeeper in europe at saving penalties with ~35% save rate. Migs is 25% and Ward 13,3%.
So with all that in mind, it seems clear you want Karius in between the sticks as soon as he is ready, right? Well.. that should be if he is ready. I personally would make that switch now and just eat those errors that comes with playing in a new league/country just as United did with De Gea. But maybe the pressure would break him. Maybe he is not ready. Maybe never will be. Maybe Mignolet, in training with Karius, has adapted his game to better deal with long & wide shots better. Maybe that is why Mignolet now looks a lot more solid? I´ve no idea. But when 4 years worth of data is saying Mignolet is in the bottom 3 of his position every year, it´s certainly something to keep a close eye on.
As mentioned, Klopp hasn´t really put his spine in place yet, which is something all coaches like to do. I honestly think Karius will get a shot as #1 at some point and then we won´t look back. Everything we seen from him pre-Liverpool screamed future Neuer. That is the path he was on. I expected a rough first season and got it. That doesn´t mean he will reach such lofty heights - maybe he just won´t be cut out for the Premier League despite looking potentially world class in Germany. My gut tells me we have seen Mignolet´s ceiling and whether Karius replaces him or not, he probably isn´t Klopp´s #1 long term.'
Then this summer I got access to some good expected goals data for the first time. Not one of those basic ones that Ted Knutsen uses either to just give a vague idea - this guy went into far more depth with his workings including type of assist, type of shot, pressure on shot taker, etc. I realised that expected goals against vs actual goals conceded could be a way of then measuring how good goalkeepers are at simply dealing with shots. Of course commanding goalkeepers like Courtois will actually reduce goals due to preventing shots in the first place. But at least I had something to try and either verify or quell my fears.
When I ran every team in England´s expected goals vs actual goals numbers, all the expected top keepers (e.g. De Gea, Lloris, Cech, Courtois) come out as performing above averages. Mignolet comes out in the bottom 3 in the league. I run them for other leagues, the top keepers rise to the surface (e.g. Oblak, Neuer, Navas). I run all seasons I have data for in England and year on year, Mignolet is in the bottom 3 in the Premier League. In fact the only goalkeepers who have an individual season worse than Mignolet does consistently is Guzan, Fabianski and Boruc. When the data is grouping Mignolet in with those names and grouping together the likes of Neuer, Oblak, De Gea, Lloris at the other end of the scale, you know you have a problem. Karius was creeping into the Neuer group the season we signed him.
I also came across a study of the average zones on the pitch goals are scored from and comparisons for each team to the average. Liverpools stood out simply because we concede goals for long range and angles far more than average. The only similar team was Man City when they switched from Hart to Bravo. In terms of expected goals they went from having someone who performed a scratch above average to someone who would be capable of hitting Mignolet numbers over the course of the season, although with Bravo he was never historically that bad and so part of that is likely the whole foreign keeper adjusting to more physical league with twice as much crosses per game. Likewise they went from conceding goals in a tight circle around the goal to conceding from almost anywhere in the box. Although still it wasn´t as large an area as Mignolet concedes from.
So, if this information is correct - and I have subsequently seen it corroborated by two other analytics sites - it points to two things.
hen when you put Karius under the microscope, he is (or was when signed) one of the strongest young goalkeepers in europe. He also has one of the quickest releases of the ball in the top leagues, compared to Mignolet who once held the ball for 22 seconds against Bordeaux. Karius kicks and throws are also much further than Mignolet also. He also favours throwing over kicking to launch quick attacks. I imagine, for a coach who wants to hurt teams in transitions, having a quick thinking goalkeeper is preferable to one who holds the ball until the opposition can reset their shape.
As mentioned before, Karius is particularly strong in all aspects of shot stopping where Mignolet was weak. However, that is just shot stopping. It remains to be seen can he be a commanding presence? Also they both shared the same weakness - crosses! Oh, and Karius is also the 17th best goalkeeper in europe at saving penalties with ~35% save rate. Migs is 25% and Ward 13,3%.
So with all that in mind, it seems clear you want Karius in between the sticks as soon as he is ready, right? Well.. that should be if he is ready. I personally would make that switch now and just eat those errors that comes with playing in a new league/country just as United did with De Gea. But maybe the pressure would break him. Maybe he is not ready. Maybe never will be. Maybe Mignolet, in training with Karius, has adapted his game to better deal with long & wide shots better. Maybe that is why Mignolet now looks a lot more solid? I´ve no idea. But when 4 years worth of data is saying Mignolet is in the bottom 3 of his position every year, it´s certainly something to keep a close eye on.
As mentioned, Klopp hasn´t really put his spine in place yet, which is something all coaches like to do. I honestly think Karius will get a shot as #1 at some point and then we won´t look back. Everything we seen from him pre-Liverpool screamed future Neuer. That is the path he was on. I expected a rough first season and got it. That doesn´t mean he will reach such lofty heights - maybe he just won´t be cut out for the Premier League despite looking potentially world class in Germany. My gut tells me we have seen Mignolet´s ceiling and whether Karius replaces him or not, he probably isn´t Klopp´s #1 long term.'
yeah it's spot on, we don't know if Karius will be good enough but I'd rather give him a season than Mignolet. I've often thought the problem is Migs doesn't make enough obvious mistakes for people to point out. Mainly cause most of us know nothing when it comes to the nuances of goalkeeping and also cause we're just well attuned to conceding boatloads so any marginal improvement is viewed even more highly than normal.
He might turn out to be. Don't think it's a given yet.