Tolkien must've been a bit bored to go into so much detail. And from a rough grasp of the whole LOTR universe. . .seems like Tolkien just ripped off the OT and stuck in hobbits for extra measure. Then again, he was a Catholic - so it shouldn't come as a surprise. I would like them to make a movie in which Sauron actually kicks arse. I don't think you'd have to do Simarillion as a whole. And Tom Bombadil should get a role. He was weird but alright yet totally pointless at the same time.Very good Spoony.
(I meant that to come out as nice, not patronising)
Yes, when Sauron was trying to persuade the Elves to create the rings of power he took on the form of 'Annatar' and looked a bit like Legolas, only sexier, and persuaded them all to create them, whilst deceiving them at the same time by creating his own ring.
Film Lord of the Rings
- Thread starter Livvie
- Start date
I must be the only Tolkein fan that was actually quite glad they left out Bombadil in the movies. Seriously, all he does is slow the story down in my opinion.
Yes, it's quite cool (and I guess I'm using that word loosely) that he's the most powerful being on Middle-earth and the only one not effected by the ring, but, honestly, we've just gone through a hundred pages of Sam and Frodo going over a hill, they're finally at the top of the hill now, don't make us have to read page after page of Tom Bombobombadil singing countless songs of very questionable quality.
Yes, it's quite cool (and I guess I'm using that word loosely) that he's the most powerful being on Middle-earth and the only one not effected by the ring, but, honestly, we've just gone through a hundred pages of Sam and Frodo going over a hill, they're finally at the top of the hill now, don't make us have to read page after page of Tom Bombobombadil singing countless songs of very questionable quality.
Yes, he was left out for a good reason. But yeah totally pointless character.
I'd recommend Tom Shippey's book on Tolkien (he appears in the Extended DVD extras) for anyone interested in the literary roots of the books.
Heh, different tastes I guess! One of the best scenes imo throughout ROTK is the scene where Arwen is riding with her fellow Elves through the forest to the Grey Havens when she has that beautiful vision with her son. I just love the imagery with the trees turning into the Gondor pillars, as an artist I really appreciate the beauty of that scene. It was perfect. I also have a huge crush on anyone with pointy ears, must be the elven blood flowing through my veins
/Puts on geek hat
The Army of the Dead didn't actually turn up at the Pelennor fields anyway in the book. I think they went with Aragorn to defeat the army attacking Pelargir, which then allowed the armies of Gondor to get in the Corsair boats and travel upstream to Minas Tirith. I can understand the decision to use them as a plot device to mop up the battle nice and quickly, but i'm not convinced! Although the whole paths of the dead scenes in the EE add alot more depth.
I much preferred the arrival of the Army of the Dead at Pelennor - the way they all charged off the ship. Cheesy, but worked well.
In ROTK, I thought Pippin actually stole the movie.
In ROTK, I thought Pippin actually stole the movie.
I think the hobbits in general were done very, very well. Probably PJ's greatest triumpth (visualisation aside). Although I still think Elijah was the weakest link. It was funny watching the Goonies on Sunday with a young Sean Astin.
Very true, but I really liked how it was done. I didn't think it was cheesy at all, I love the way the Army of the Dead kicked arse. Pretty useful to have an army nearby that can't be killed!Heh, different tastes I guess! One of the best scenes imo throughout ROTK is the scene where Arwen is riding with her fellow Elves through the forest to the Grey Havens when she has that beautiful vision with her son. I just love the imagery with the trees turning into the Gondor pillars, as an artist I really appreciate the beauty of that scene. It was perfect. I also have a huge crush on anyone with pointy ears, must be the elven blood flowing through my veins
/Puts on geek hat
The Army of the Dead didn't actually turn up at the Pelennor fields anyway in the book. I think they went with Aragorn to defeat the army attacking Pelargir, which then allowed the armies of Gondor to get in the Corsair boats and travel upstream to Minas Tirith. I can understand the decision to use them as a plot device to mop up the battle nice and quickly, but i'm not convinced! Although the whole paths of the dead scenes in the EE add alot more depth.
You're right though, that is a brilliant scene where Arwen sees her son. Actually in the books Arwen is hardly in it, the story of her and Aragorn is mainly in the epilogue things at the end but I think it was really good to put it in the films.
Reading the book (pre-movie adaptions) I remember being totally gutted at the Mouth of Sauron scene because the way the book is structured you can only believe Frodo is dead at that point. I remember thinking 'what? this can't be right?'. At that point my reading went from a couple of hours a day to about 14 hours ending at Mount Doom one memorable morning at about 6 am.
Aye the romantic story with Aragorn and Arwen seemed to be an after thought from the great man. I can understand why he left it out of the book because when you're plodding through them there isn't really any space for it.
My favourite scene in all the lotr movies though has to be Boromirs death. I love it when he drops to his knees and the battered stone statue is directly behind him. Such a great scene
That's the main difference between the books and the films. The books have the story of Sam and Frodo told, then the story of Pippin and Merry, then Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli (well... not exactly, but you know what I mean).
Also, if you go by the chronological dates some of the things that are happening to Sam and Frodo in the second book actually coincide with events happening to Merry and Pippin in the third book. What PJ has done is put all the films into chronological order, which means some of the stuff that's in the second book is in the third film.
When reading ROTK, you really do think Frodo's dead at one part because you know he's been captured by the Orcs but you don't know that Sam has saved him when Aragorn and the rest get to the Black Gate. That's kind of lost in the films because you see Frodo getting saved straight away, but it was still a clever thing to do putting it in order.
There's loads of Sauron kicking arse in the Silmarrillion, especially in his witch king of Angband days. Do you remember the battle at the very beginning of FOTR when the Last Alliance of men and Elves laid seige to the Tower of Baradur. Well what isn't realy shown in the film is how vast the human and elven army was, they had annihilated Saurons forces and had laid siege to the tower for seven years. In the end Sauron came out and single handedly drove them back, wiping a third from their forces and bringing about the real possibility of a victory before he had his pinkies chopped off.
Perfect description of him. I'm pretty sure Tolkien meant to do that. It was his view of God, who does good things, strange things, whimsical things, bad things, and in the end cancels Himself/Itself out to become somewhat pointless in the eyes of mortal beings.
I never wanted to watch LOTR because I thought it was mystical/medievil shit. Then I watched the first film and loved it so much I watched both the others within that same weekend.
Awesome films.
Awesome films.
He set out to make epic stories like Beowulf etc and base it in England as he felt there was a lack of these sort of tales in the history of there. So a lot of his influence was Norse and Germanic stories and some classic operatic roots with Wagner being looked upon as a beginning for the one ring part of the story. Also Celtic stories played a major part in the forming of the Lord of the Rings book with a lot of different influence merging into one.
He spent a long time setting up the background to the story and fighting with publishers after he sent in the manuscripts getting mad at them for changing Elves to Elfs. He is basically the father of modern Fantasy and he has influenced a lot of following authors in the genre.
Oh yeah, I think he did a meticulous job and I think it's a story that clearly appeals to the masses - good v bad usually does.
Ahhh, that'd make sense. I wonder if Tom actually boned Goldberry or whatever the babe was called.
I thought that would've made a brilliant war scene. . . and it was as shame that it was only a small clip but it appeared to be very dark, which is what I liked about it.
Read it and it was brilliant, a proper tragedy as well with a really tragic ending. Also the best book for concise storytelling out of all the middle earth books.
The Battle of Unnumbered tears, the War of Wrath and Breaking of Utumno were greater still. Bombadil definetly boned her.
I hated the way that Helm's Deep was changed so ridiculously for the films. It went from being a minor plot occurence to one of the most important bits of the whole trilogy.
Also, MG, feck off. Bombadil is awesome.
Also, MG, feck off. Bombadil is awesome.
Well, if it helps, in the commentary, Jackson touches on all of the major story changes and explains why his scriptwriting team made those changes. IIRC he somewhat sheepishly acknowledges that they felt they needed a climactic battle for the end of the film. Plus he (or one of the other staff, I can't remember) do make a pretty good point about half the Fellowship being involved in the battle and how it plays a part in Aragorn's story arc/restoration of faith in men. A bit dodgy that last part, but hey.
It had cinematic potential is all, they pulled it off in the films to be fair Count.
Yeah, I really liked it. Poor old Turin eh, getting tricked into marrying his sister! I thought it was a bit Shakespearean actually.
Yeah Helm's Deep is only a small part of the 2nd book, but I was so impressed watching the battle scene for the 2nd movie, it was immense - I actually prefer it to the battle in the 3rd film - that I didn't mind. They did it very well.
Bombadil gets annoying. I guess he starts off cool (again, using that word loosely) but the constant stupid dilly dally dolly singing grates eventually.
Also, I'm sure the Elves weren't involved in Helm's Deep. Nor did Rivendale and Lothlórien have some great big group hug where they decided to do what was best for the world; they didn't like each other much.
No, the Elves didn't help in Helm's Deep in the book. But I thought it was a nice touch including them, like a mirror of the Last Alliance of Elves and Men at the end of the Second Age (beginning of the 1st movie).
Very much so but grander and with one big feck off dragon. I've also edited your postfor those who haven't read it yet. Felt the most sorry for Hurin, an act of the noblest bravery punished beyond all belief.
[geek hat on]
The Rangers of the North came down to Helms Deep and helped our Rohan, they also followed Aragorn through the Paths of the Dead.
The Elves turned up at the Battle of Pelennor Fields. [geek hat off/
Heh. It's stapled (']') to your head, eh.
Doh! Geek failure.
[dons even shinier geek hat]
The Elves never turned up at the Pelennor.
It's implied they fought to protect Lothlorien and Mirkwood (to protect their own realms), but they never fought any of the major battles. One of Tolkien's themes is that the elves were withdrawing from the world, leaving the mortals to their own devices. That's why Jackson's idea to have the elves turn up at Helm's Deep is still one of my pet peeves about the films -- it's contrary to a major theme in the story.
The elves only came to Minas Tirith with Arwen when the war was over.
[/removes geek hat & returns to Uruguay v Ghana]
Shit me, you're right. Its been a while since I've read ROTK. I'm sure some Elves did ride with the Dunedain?[dons even shinier geek hat]
The Elves never turned up at the Pelennor.
It's implied they fought to protect Lothlorien and Mirkwood (to protect their own realms), but they never fought any of the major battles. One of Tolkien's themes is that the elves were withdrawing from the world, leaving the mortals to their own devices. That's why Jackson's idea to have the elves turn up at Helm's Deep is still one of my pet peeves about the films -- it's contrary to a major theme in the story.
The elves only came to Minas Tirith with Arwen when the war was over.
[/removes geek hat & returns to Uruguay v Ghana]
Elves = French? I think we're onto something here.
You're right - Elrond's sons Elladan & Elrohir rode with the rangers, and also fought the battle of the Pelennor.
In other news - Ghana scores!
Thats regained some of my geekness! Thank feck.
Extended Editions on Blu Ray released on Monday. I am getting it. Looks a lovely box set.
Just looked on Amazon at the details and even more documentaries of the making of it included an additional 26 hours, so shows how much more Blu-ray can hold. Also while i was on Amazon spotted that the Star Wars films hit Blu-Ray in September as well so i at least know where my spare cash is going the next few months
I was going to get the extended blu-rays on release but I think I'll wait for the price to go down. Disappointed that the films are on 2 blu-ray discs each and the extra discs are all DVD copies and apparently there is some issue with the picture quality of the first film which has a lot more green tint than the previous releases did.
Disappointed as well. Shame the extras couldn't be on Blu-ray
Personally it's one of my favourite movie sagas. The scale, the dialog, the sheer epicness of it all is right up there with anything i've ever seen.
I like the idea of the Hobbit movies as well. Definitely gonna get those in the future.
I like the idea of the Hobbit movies as well. Definitely gonna get those in the future.
I've had it on pre-order for a while now.
Got this on Monday. €65 Which I think is a good price. Box set is sexual and although I have only watched half of the Fellowship so far it looks incredible
Very very happy with my purchase
Very very happy with my purchase
Got the extended edition box set for 22 quid yesterday. These knock the socks off the theatrical editions, really incredible films.