Lowest Average Distance Covered per Game

[cyberman]

I guess spurs, Liverpool and City did not have this problem and therefore ran more (?!?)

They score more goals than us. We face the same block from min 1 to min 90 because we can't put the fecking ball in the ne
Also we tend to defend a bit differently. We dont defend let like a pressing unit so it doesn't really tell us much.

 

[ivaldo]

We've been bottom of this particular table from very early on this season, long before we started travelling all over Europe in the EL. I think he makes a good point. It's fine if we set out to play tactics that involve a lot less running than other teams. More than one way to skin a cat. However, one of the upsides of this approach should be a squad of players who are less drained at the end of the season.

Playing a game every 3 days for 2 months will leave any team drained, regardless of where they sit in the table.

 

[rocks13]

Playing a game every 3 days for 2 months will leave any team drained, regardless of where they sit in the table.

But if no individual player has played in all those games why would they be drained? Despite us having as a team had more games a lot of our players haven't played any more than first-choice players at other clubs.

 

[Skills]

Anyone have the stats for individual players in the league? I'm convinced our full backs cover the least ground out of all full backs in the league. They just don't overlap.

 

[R.E.D.]

Or is actually prove of it? Add to that the ridiculous fixture congestion and the huge amount of travel we've done and it's perfectly understandable.

We`ve been the lowest since the beginning of the season.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Playing a game every 3 days for 2 months will leave any team drained, regardless of where they sit in the table.

Maybe but we should be less drained than the 19 other teams in the league would be in that same scenario.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Anyone have the stats for individual players in the league? I'm convinced our full backs cover the least ground out of all full backs in the league. They just don't overlap.

I'd be surprised if Valencia isn't one of the hardest working players in the league.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Anyone have the stats for individual players in the league? I'm convinced our full backs cover the least ground out of all full backs in the league. They just don't overlap.

I tried to find that out as well because it's been a gripe of mine all year. Valencia is the most played one but really this tactic of the fullbacks not committing is really doing my head in.

Have to add I mentioned this in the excuse thread about tiredness and pretty much got laughed out of there because my stats weren't up to date. Well, if you're reading this here is your proof (flipping the bird)x2 in that threads general direction.

 

[noodlehair]

I'm sure we discussed this right near the start of the season but I can't find anything?

Anyway nothing has really changed. Unless you are either top of the league and winning games with something to spare, or at the very least punching above your weight results wise, I don't get how this is justifiable.

It means every single team we play against works harder than us, and covers more ground than us. That's a very obvious advantage for an opponent to have over you. I mean it's impossible to argue this isn't an advantage...in some cases the gap is so big that the opposition basically have an extra player!

Any excuse of it being a tactic or more efficient use of energy goes out the window the second results don't back it up. The fact it's been consistent throughout the season means it can't be excused as tiredness either.

The only two possibilities are players are playing with energy to spare despite struggling to get results, or our players are just less fit than literally all of their opponents. I'm not sure which is worse, but either way it doesn't reflect well on the coaching...especially when the manager is constantly moaning about how tired they are.

 

[RedFish]

You could be running around like headless chickens.....

Distance covered doesn't equate to success. It's relevant to Jose's tactics obviously and if the players aren't 'making the effort' they don't last long in the team.

Would we be having this discussion if we'd managed to win the many games we dominated and clearly should have won this season? - I doubt it.

 

[ivaldo]

But if no individual player has played in all those games why would they be drained? Despite us having as a team had more games a lot of our players haven't played any more than first-choice players at other clubs.

Rubbish. We've rotated no more than any other club.

Irregardless, the table in its whole shows there isn't really any connection between the two factors.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'm sure we discussed this right near the start of the season but I can't find anything?

Anyway nothing has really changed. Unless you are either top of the league and winning games with something to spare, or at the very least punching above your weight results wise, I don't get how this is justifiable.

It means every single team we play against works harder than us, and covers more ground than us. That's a very obvious advantage for an opponent to have over you. I mean it's impossible to argue this isn't an advantage...in some cases the gap is so big that the opposition basically have an extra player!

Any excuse of it being a tactic or more efficient use of energy goes out the window the second results don't back it up. The fact it's been consistent throughout the season means it can't be excused as tiredness either.

The only two possibilities are players are playing with energy to spare despite struggling to get results, or our players are just less fit than literally all of their opponents. I'm not sure which is worse, but either way it doesn't reflect well on the coaching...especially when the manager is constantly moaning about how tired they are.

That's not really true. If it's down to tactics which are generally well executed but failing due to reasons other than effort (woeful finishing, for example) then these stats would be perfectly acceptable. Basically, if we'd played all season like we have this last month or so then the lack of distance covered would be fairly inexcusable but there's been large parts of the season where it seems to have been working just fine, if only we had a few more attacking players capable of hitting a cow's arse with a banjo.

I do think it undermines the constant complaining about fatigue, though. Ditto Mourinho's insistence on playing such a strong line-up in the League Cup or other cup games against poor opposition. If you deliberately set out to get your team to run less than other teams than you can get away with some players racking up a crazy number of starts over a season. However, spending the end of the season complaining about how tired they all are smacks of wanting to have your cake and eat it.

 

[cyberman]

That's not really true. If it's down to tactics which are generally well executed but failing due to reasons other than effort (woeful finishing, for example) then these stats would be perfectly acceptable. Basically, if we'd played all season like we have this last month or so then the lack of distance covered would be fairly inexcusable but there's been large parts of the season where it seems to have been working just fine, if only we had a few more attacking players capable of hitting a cow's arse with a banjo.

I do think it undermines the constant complaining about fatigue, though. Ditto Mourinho's insistence on playing such a strong line-up in the League Cup or other cup games against poor opposition. If you deliberately set out to get your team to run less than other teams than you can get away with some players racking up a crazy number of starts over a season. However, spending the end of the season complaining about how tired they all are smacks of wanting to have your cake and eat it.

Its average though. A lot more games at average pace would tire you out more than less games at a higher pace. There's more miles on the legs

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Its average though. A lot more games at average pace would tire you out more than less games at a higher pace. There's more miles on the legs

We're way below average though. In fact, if you calculate total miles run (by multiplying number of games by distance run per game) I reckon we'd still be below average!

 

[edcunited1878]

And all that running, who is left in a European competition? Too much emphasis on kick and rush football in England. No need to be in perpetual motion just to be. Distance covered doesn't factor how intelligent the running is or how purposeful it is. Stats and data are not the best without context.

How about goals scored and conceded per KM run or something like that?

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I would go further and say, there isn't even a correlation. Our being bottom is dramatic and I guess worthy of discussion but ranking stats can be pretty misleading. If you plot those average distances against point totals, your scatter plot has no pattern. Ergo, those stats do not tell as anything about how average distance covered affects performance. I would say it's too crude to be useful.

True ***

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Ok, so I've done the maths.

We're on track to play 63 games this season @ 106 km/game = 6466km run in total.

Arsenal have run the 10th lowest distance of @ 110km/game. 55 games in total = 6050km run in total.

Would really like to do the same for the likes of Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool. Could be a really massive difference.

 

[noodlehair]

That's not really true. If it's down to tactics which are generally well executed but failing due to reasons other than effort (woeful finishing, for example) then these stats would be perfectly acceptable. Basically, if we'd played all season like we have this last month or so then the lack of distance covered would be fairly inexcusable but there's been large parts of the season where it seems to have been working just fine, if only we had a few more attacking players capable of hitting a cow's arse with a banjo.

I do think it undermines the constant complaining about fatigue, though. Ditto Mourinho's insistence on playing such a strong line-up in the League Cup or other cup games against poor opposition. If you deliberately set out to get your team to run less than other teams than you can get away with some players racking up a crazy number of starts over a season. However, spending the end of the season complaining about how tired they all are smacks of wanting to have your cake and eat it.

It's not really perfectly justifiable for me though, because the tactics aren't working, even if the problem for part of the season was woeful finishing. If you're going to set out your team to work less hard than the opposition, for me, it simply has to be backed up with results. Otherwise you're just handicapping yourself.

In any case, even if you factor out the poor finishing, during the same spell another repeated problem in games was our really poor performances once we took a lead. We lost leads countless times where we'd be dominating and then suddenly sit off and let the opposition take control because we scored...and I suspect this can be directly linked to the lack of distance covered, for fairly obvious reasons.

We haven't been in a position in many games at all where we have looked like we are comfortable or cruising. We haven't been in any games at all where it has appeared that the opposition has tired more than us late on allowing us an advantage.

And yeah, since Jose has gone on a self pity rampage over having too many games, he's destroyed the argument that it's a long term tactic to give us an edge later in the season. We've played poorly consistently of late so again there's no tangible or measurable advantage to be seen.

Basically we're working less hard than every team we play against, for no reason. You have to be sitting pretty at the top of the league for that to not be considered a significant problem.

 

[frank lee madeer..]

It's not necessarily a problem. There are benefits of being able to achieve by exerting less effort than the opposition. However, we don't really know if that's the case or whether we simply have a less fit squad.

In addition, distance covered is not the sole measure of effort during a game. Exertion depends on speed and distance.

We were close to the bottom last year as well.

We were 4th in distance covered under lvg & 4th isn't close to the bottom. Where did you get that stat from ?

 

[Ixion]

I'm amazed anyone could have watched our home games this season and not think there is something to this stat and our performances. Game after game of slow, lethargic, devoid of ideas build up and a team running less than any other team in the league.

 

[RedCurry]

I don't need stats to tell me that we don't run in games. We stroll around. And it is unacceptable. Fatigue my bum.

When players are tired, get the reserves to play. Youth players are available for exactly that. When the season is getting congested, get one or two kids to play each game and ask them to run their hearts out for 60-70mins in the game.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

And all that running, who is left in a European competition? Too much emphasis on kick and rush football in England. No need to be in perpetual motion just to be. Distance covered doesn't factor how intelligent the running is or how purposeful it is. Stats and data are not the best without context.

How about goals scored and conceded per KM run or something like that?

Guys like Xavi and Andrea Pirlo use to lead in distance covered stats. It can also be a measure of poor off ball movement.

 

[Moonwalker]

I tried finding the individual distance covered stats, back when somebody made that amusing comment about Valencia's laziness, but with little success.

It's a job for a better Statto than I.

 

[GloryHunter07]

Kind of rubbishes the constant moaning about us being tired, doesn't it?

It's also what you get when you park the bus a lot.

Cause or effect?

 

[Attila]

Ok, so I've done the maths.

We're on track to play 63 games this season @ 106 km/game = 6466km run in total.

Arsenal have run the 10th lowest distance of @ 110km/game. 55 games in total = 6050km run in total.

Would really like to do the same for the likes of Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool. Could be a really massive difference.

63 x 106 is 6678, I think we are on course to play 64 games this season

We've played 62 games so far so at 106km/game = 6572km
Spurs 51 games x 114 = 5814km
Liverpool 46 games x 117 = 5382km
Chelsea 45 games x 113 = 5085km

 

[Moonwalker]

Cause or effect?

The table has been posted ages ago.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

63 x 106 is 6678, I think we are on course to play 64 games this season

We've played 62 games so far so at 106km/game = 6572km
Spurs 51 games x 114 = 5814km
Liverpool 46 games x 117 = 5382km
Chelsea 45 games x 113 = 5085km

Wow. My crap maths aside, that really is quite a big difference.

 

[sunama]

So, Jose has been all season telling us fans that some of our players are not prepared to "run through walls".
Is this now being borne out, statistically?

 

[frank lee madeer..]

So, Jose has been all season telling us fans that some of our players are not prepared to "run through walls".
Is this now being borne out, statistically?

Statistically, we're running through treacle.

 

[The White Pele]

Distorted by the games where we have parked the bus

 

[cheeky_backheel]

No surprise here. We defend deep with minimal to no pressing. Majority of modern continental managers like their teams to press high and recover possession quickly. Jose's a bit old school in this regard.

No - we simply dont have the players to do so. When you press high, you risk being exposed if your players are caught upfield. If the player left behind cannot hold their own and/or the ones upfield cannot recover quickly enough, then it is silly to use high press tactics.

 

[Damien]

We're third on most fouls conceded this season in the league. Watford are top.

 

[Scarecrow]

Its average though. A lot more games at average pace would tire you out more than less games at a higher pace. There's more miles on the legs

That's what I'm thinking.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We're third on most fouls conceded this season in the league. Watford are top.

Having Pogba, Fellaini and Ibra in the same team will do that. Referee's constantly give free kicks against them when they compete with smaller players for the ball.

Ironically, the continental referees in the EL have tended to be a little less fussy about their physicality.

 

[frank lee madeer..]

No - we simply dont have the players to do so. When you press high, you risk being exposed if your players are caught upfield. If the player left behind cannot hold their own and/or the ones upfield cannot recover quickly enough, then it is silly to use high press tactics.

That's over simplifying it imo. The high press doesn't have to be a constant, you've got to create the right ' situations ' first in order to give it a higher chance of success. & I'd disagree that we haven't got the players to do it. We just don't push far enough up as a unit enough to make it viable.

 

[The red panther]

You could also take into account fixture congestion, players simply can't overexert themselves if they are playing 3 games a week.

We were already the team with the lowest average distance covered before our crazy schedule of 3 games a week. I remember seeing it being mentioned months ago.

It is just an indication of what is wrong with this team, no movement whatsoever. Players like Carrick are also the worst off it, this season he must be the outfield player who covered the least amount of distance on average from the entire league.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We were already the team with the lowest average distance covered before our crazy schedule of 3 games a week. I remember seeing it being mentioned months ago.

It is just an indication of what is wrong with this team, no movement whatsoever. Players like Carrick are also the worst off it, this season he must be the outfield player who covered the least amount of distance on average from the entire league.

Bit of wild claim you're making about Carrick. Whenever I've seen individual data about distances from United players he usually covers more distance than anyone.

 

[The red panther]

Bit of wild claim you're making about Carrick. Whenever I've seen individual data about distances from United players he usually covers more distance than anyone.

Can not be true

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Can not be true

But it is true.

Well, not more than anyone. More than 13 other team mates in the most recent data I could find.

 

[The red panther]

But it is true.

Well, not more than anyone. More than 13 other team mates in the most recent data I could find.

can you link to me please ?