That is demonstrably false. He is still a #6.
Luckhurst: United prepared to move for a holding midfielder in January
- Thread starter Valar Morghulis
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Can you Imagine how many Red cards he would get playing DM
Yeah I've checked it seems a bad idea. What a waste he was rated quite high back then.
Hopefully a CDM is looked at again in the January window but I suspect Ole is set on Declan Rice.
On the whole, we are stronger than last season with three absolute quality additions yet still a work in progress, however, we are getting there, slowly but surely.
On the whole, we are stronger than last season with three absolute quality additions yet still a work in progress, however, we are getting there, slowly but surely.
I find it hard to be disappointed by a window where we've made 3 big name signings. But I have, for a long time, had a disappointment in our sheer neglect for the need for playmaking/passing/possesion play from the midfield. The fact that Ole has signed two midfielders in his time here and both are goalscoring midfielders says it all. Before that, Mourinho's additions were Fred, an energetic midfielder who excels only in hounding opponents and Pogba, a creative midfielder who has nothing to do with the real engine. So as a football club I don't think we care for it really and it's not just about this summer. Had we truly cared about this as something crucial we'd have gotten our own Jorginho and Kovacic by now.This will cost a lot of points
van de beek is not even considered for the bench
matic old, mct a bit too much injury prone, fred
Also going by the comment of us deferring the signing of a DM, to me it seems as though we will be targetting a pure DM rather than focusing on someone who can run the and excels in starting moves. Thoughts @Adnan as like me I think you want someone to dictate the game, provide the class from the middle.
Will be interesting to see how much Ole can get out of VDB, Matic and Pogba from central midfield as that will be his biggest challenge. We all know what McFred bring - solid functional but lacking in quality. Matic could have a run where he regains his former level for a bit, Pogba could play great games from midfield if he/the manager can provide him enough cover or support and VDB, you never know, may actually play well in midfield at some point, but I am skeptical of all three of those. Like I said Ole's job to make it work well.
I think the bolded section pretty much sums it up. Some sensational players have moved in this window but the midfielders who were available all had question marks of some kind against them. I suspect we may be taking longer to monitor Neves before making a decision.
Let's ride it out still January at least, surprised we didn't even go for Franck Kessié, he's at a good age and suits the double Pivot system we usually deploy.
I don't see it the same way especially after a bad game or performance. McTominay does get a fair amount of criticism but he's usually lumped in with Fred. McFred is more the point of focus than the player himself. McTominay is a fan favorite
Right now the media, and this includes several former players, are pummeling Fred with criticism for his Wolves performance, a game where he was pretty much left for dead in the first half by the imbalance of Solskjaer's set up. There are threads dedicated to criticizing Fred here. It's the same across the web. McTominay is more protected at United to be fair
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I don't know how people can't be happy with this window.
Maybe Ole's waiting for the perfect long term solution to become available, rather than the instant gratification that we have seen work so well for us in recent years.
Maybe Ole's waiting for the perfect long term solution to become available, rather than the instant gratification that we have seen work so well for us in recent years.
Probably the only reason I can think of. Pogba might be leaving next summer so we might see two midfielder coming in (assuming vdb is also sold).
From what I have observed on caf, people who pick sides on player vs player, they tend to feel one player is getting lot of criticism and usually that player is the player they picked vs others.
Also I agree with you on the point that Fred gets lot of shit from media, I think that's because he was signed for big money and Mctominay was a surprise inclusion in the squad and the expectations was very low, so relative to those expectations he did well.
Overall I feel both are at around same level with different strengths and weakness.
We've improved our team by more than our competition, at least in theory. It was a good window. Find it hard to be too disappointed by missing out on the various midfielders available this summer. Its more sensible to wait if im being honest.
It was clear that last season the target was Sancho and when we missed out, we kept our powder dry and got our man in the end at a big discount. That is just good business.
Look at Liverpool. They waited patiently for their targets to become available and it was a massively successful strategy for them.
It doesnt matter if we win the league this year or even next. The goal isn't to win one title. The goal is to be a dominant force again in European football. If that requires a bit of patience then so be it.
We should have done that Chelsea move for Saul. 5m for his loan is a bargain.
I mean we've added 3 first team players to the squad, that I think everyone can agree are significant upgrades on what we had. There might also be the problem of Ole buying a midfielder who would suit Pogba's playing style and for Pogba to then leave.
Our transfer approach under Ole has been much improved and Ole has always bought with whats best for the club in mind and I'll trust that we're heading in the right direction squad wise at the very least.
here's hoping that a settled defence and attack with all 3 bedded in will reduce the criticality of the DM position, that McFred's lapses will be less impactful because we're more clinical in front of goal at both ends of the pitch.
For 5m I agree - That's worth a proper title challenge. We need someone who makes themselves available for passing constantly and can do the dirty jobs in a midfield 2.
Great window however.
It wouldn't have been that simple. Atletico are already a pain if just one club is in for their player. Imagine if two of the richest clubs were competing for Saul -- they'd have milked us as much as they could.
No, no, no and no. I don't even know where to begin with explaining the positional differences and break down why this is a bad idea but there's a very good reason its not been done. Same for the people who have suggested AWB play there.
Even putting aside the skill set he would need but doesn't have, the positional awareness and perspective of the game as well as responsibilities are completely different. Just because Lindelof can read the game pretty well and can ping a good pass here and there it does not mean he can go and play in midfield.
Fred is actually now at the point of being really under rated. Our fan base tend to do this, Carrick used to get absolutely pelted. Our fans called him the crab. Those same fans who will try to look insightful now and say what a great player he was. Neves lost possession more than twice the amount that Fred did against Wolves and I'm not saying I wouldn't like to sign Neves but I bet if you asked after the game, who lost possession the most in that game that a lot of people would probably have said Fred. In reality it was less times than Neves, Traore, Bruno and Pogba, as well as other players.
He needs upgrading, absolutely, but the narrative that he's some absolutely awful liability is getting a bit much now.
This.
We are playing a long game. There is a vision and a plan in place going 3-5yrs out.
The issue is that next year we will need a striker, no way are we buying rice and haaland for example.
Next year? Thought we signed Ronaldo on a 2 plus 1 year contract
There's no excuse now for not breaking down teams that pack the defence and sit deep against us. Midfield is clearly an issue and there's the question if Bruno, a natural 10, is wasted in a 4-3-3 but we have enough options to certainly kick on from last season.
Cavani will be gone and Haaland is available. Ronaldo physical condition might not enable him to play every game next season we don’t know yet.
I'm completely with you mate and have felt the same when it comes to the composition of our midfield over the years. We just don't have a player in the first team who can provide the class and guile on the ball, as well as the industry off the ball in a deeper role IMO. So if the plan is to buy Rice, Bissouma or Tchouameni to play alongside one of Fred or McTominay, then I don't expect to see much improvement as far as controlling a game via possession-play from midfield is concerned, especially with Bruno playing in a advanced role alongside our forwards.
So we either look for solutions via future transfer windows, where we buy two midfielders of different strengths or look for a solution internally whereby we promote young Hannibal Mejbri who has the profile to develop into the player that can open up passing angles under pressure and provide that touch of class and creativity from midfield. Now I'm not saying he's guaranteed to succeed, but I know I'm one of many people who are cautiously very optimistic regarding his long term future.
So if we did sign one of Rice, Bissouma or Tchouameni and paired one of those players up with Mejbri and Bruno in a 3 man midfield with Pogba on the left, we'd at the very least have some hope of seeing us play through midfield against the so called lesser teams. Against the bigger teams we can drop Mejbri and play the game of poker by ceding the midfield which we've done quite often in a low/mid-block which has brought us a number of wins playing on the counter.
But I'm hoping to see Ole at least try something different in midfield with the array of talent we have at our disposal, especially against the smaller teams.
Speaking of CDM's...
Just throwing this out there. I know their stars have somewhat fallen off this past while for different reasons, but as it stands, both Kessie and Zakaria are due to become free agents at the end of this season. And come January, we would be totally permitted to agree deals with both players to join us on free transfers next summer.
If we're going to continue playing a 4231, then Kessie/Zakaria and McTominay/Fred would be pretty strong depth.
Just throwing this out there. I know their stars have somewhat fallen off this past while for different reasons, but as it stands, both Kessie and Zakaria are due to become free agents at the end of this season. And come January, we would be totally permitted to agree deals with both players to join us on free transfers next summer.
If we're going to continue playing a 4231, then Kessie/Zakaria and McTominay/Fred would be pretty strong depth.
You're forgetting something. Mourinho bought Matic to be the CDM and playmaker from the deep, a role he had played for him at Chelsea, he didn't neglect the position.
Matic did do very well in his first season (17/18) and he was a mainstay in the team (36 league appearances, with 35 starts and rested only in the final two games). However our worries that he was in decline and losing whatever little pace he had proved to be correct in the following seasons.
In theory the midfield trio that Mourinho had set-up was a very balanced midfield....
--Pogba----Fred/McT
-----------Matic------------
The problem's were that a) the team under Mourinho played dreadful, defensive football regardless of who you threw into the team. And b) Matic and Fred never peaked together. Matic arrived in 2017 and Fred in 2018. Fred took a year to adjust and by 2019 Matic was a shadow of himself already. He had a mini renaissance in the tail end of the 19/20 season which got him the extension and since then has continued his inevitable decline. We also signed Bruno in Jan 2020, which further complicated things in midfield and resulted in Pogba playing LM/LW.
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"Manchester United wanted to challenge for the title but will now wait till next year".
Zakaria hasn't recovered his form after the bad injury he suffered a while ago. So it'll be interesting to see how he does under Adi Hutter this season
Very true. An absolute collosus of a player for them prior to that awful injury.
I think we're very much going to have an epic Rice-saga next summer. That one is going to run and run. It's a very Ole signing. We couldn't get Sancho the first time and we revisited it. Our interest in Rice isn't as obvious but I think the murmurings seem to be that's only because he's too expensive to the extent it wasn't even worth bidding this year.
I'm afraid Fred is a liability for the role he is currently occupying. If Fred was being asked to go chasing after the ball and pressure high up the field he'd be, mostly, okay. He actually does that job pretty well. However, playing next to Pogba gives Fred a new set of duties that he just does not do very well. Rio Ferdinand was right in what he said about Fred on his podcast this week. Fred does a good job in midfield but he does not do that job, of using positioning to screen the defence, particularly well.
Its not really helpful to rely on who lost the ball more as a measure of performance in that sense. We know enough about Fred to know he will very rarely try the sort of long passes Neves does, and when he does they usually go into touch. Fred gets the ball and gives it to better players at short distance, which, in the right role would be alright.
I do not believe people like Rio and Keane think Fred is rubbish. I think they think Fred is just not at the level he needs to be to anchor Man Utd's midfield, which is accurate. Fred is the Sami Khedira to someone else's Xabi Alonso. He's the Goreztka to someone else's Kimmich. The problem is we do not have a Xabi Alonso, we do not have a Kimmich, we have Matic who is long passed it. It means we end up playing Fred in a role that showcases what he is worst at instead of what he is best at.
I suspect this to be the case. Lets hope it doesn't turn into an auction.
I know many will say that Rice wants to go to Chelsea, but i actually fancy our chances. Chelsea are already stacked in midfield with Kante, Jorginho, Kovacic and Saul. Next season Gilmour returns from loan and maybe they'll buy Saul. There's no room for Rice.
West Ham is going to play tough, but we should go all for it. CDM should be a priority next summer, higher than striker.
West Ham is going to play tough, but we should go all for it. CDM should be a priority next summer, higher than striker.
Exactly.
Next summer I reckon we will only be buying midfielders.
I agree.
If it comes to it I reckon Rice will be priority number 1 next summer (we should chance our arm in January as well for the hell of it). If the rumoured wages Raiola is asking for Haaland is even remotley true then theres no way we will even consider it whether he has a release clause or not.
We wont be buying Rice and Haaland in the same window considering we would be looking at minimum 150/160 million on two players.
I think we will judge the striker position on how Ronaldo and Greenwood handle this season (and Rashford) and if all is good there then I see us going all in for Rice and getting a back up striker instead.
West Ham actually got their rumoured Rice alternative in this summer. The Alex Kral guy. Hopefully he beds in well and West Ham drop their ridiculous demands for Rice. If that's who Ole wants.
I reckon this is part of why we didnt go for him as well, having already got nowhere with them regarding Trippier we probably had no intention of trying to work out the same deal Chelsea somehow managed in the end.
Maybe Ole's thinking is that, with Sancho and CR7 added to our squad, we won't rely too much on the CMs to create/support our attack, so that McFred could do a job.
It matters, one year becomes two and two become a decade then before you know it you have gone thirty years singing next year is our year - sound familiar? You don't sign Ronaldo and Varane and postpone a title challenge because Declan Rice is not available, he is replaceable because he is not a unique talent.
Its not like we are saying Ole should have forgone the signing of Rice in order to sign a bang average player because the options we could have gone for will most probably have as successful a career as Rice. We effectively declined going for a midfielder so that we could play Fred and Matic!
To me it seems someone was getting his excuses in ready, I failed to compete for the title because I couldn't sign a midfielder who I have to wait for until next season but then we lose Pogba and we wait another two years for the perfect replacement for him. By that time maybe Maguire is winding down or Bruno has left so we spend another three years waiting for the perfect replacement to become available.
You’re only the 2nd poster to refer to carrick as the crab and the other was banned a while ago. Hmmm