He wasn't exactly great yesterday. The goal is a sitter and the shot that hit the post was a mistake by Howard. He lost the ball too easy and, as always, made bad decisions when he had the ball. An average player who hasn't had a great game for two years now. I always liked Nani but it's time.
Luis Nani | 2013/14 Performances
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Why does it have to be a great performance? It was a good one, obviously and thats enough for his country. It would be enough for us too.
For some reason it always feels like people are comparing him with Ronaldo and Robben and other world class, perhaps the best in the world players and their standards. And then the moment they decide he's not as good they decide he's rubbish.
Just because he isnt as good as the best wingers doesn't mean he isn't a good one.
For some reason it always feels like people are comparing him with Ronaldo and Robben and other world class, perhaps the best in the world players and their standards. And then the moment they decide he's not as good they decide he's rubbish.
Just because he isnt as good as the best wingers doesn't mean he isn't a good one.
Pretty hard to have a great game when he's barely playing.
That's quite shocking statistic. I was aware he isn’t used often but this is bizarre. I’m really curious what has been happening with him during these days.
Alexis Sanchez has averaged being tackled 4 times and misplacing passes that went to the opponents 2 times.
Nani 3 and 2.5
Alexis Sanchez 72.9% pass accuracy from 35 average passes
Nani 75.3% pass accuracy from 40.5 average passes
Now Sanchez has created more with his passes, scored 1 and assisted 1. And he works harder defensively.
While Nani has put in a lot more good crosses and has 1 goal.
But there we are in another thread salivating over Alexis Sanchez hoping we make a big money move for him, while in this thread people are complaining Nani gives the ball away too much. He’s given it away less than your fantasy signing.
Nani 3 and 2.5
Alexis Sanchez 72.9% pass accuracy from 35 average passes
Nani 75.3% pass accuracy from 40.5 average passes
Now Sanchez has created more with his passes, scored 1 and assisted 1. And he works harder defensively.
While Nani has put in a lot more good crosses and has 1 goal.
But there we are in another thread salivating over Alexis Sanchez hoping we make a big money move for him, while in this thread people are complaining Nani gives the ball away too much. He’s given it away less than your fantasy signing.
Those stats are crazy - they don't differentiate between simple and difficult balls.
Sanchez has been better than Nani so far in the WC. He plays like the rest of the Chile team, with fire, and there is no way he has ceded possession as cheaply as Nani in the tournament.
Nani is technically gifted but the simple parts of the game are letting him down at the moment. I have said before that I would rather keep him and sell Valencia and Young but that doesn't look likely. He did look dangerous last night though.
Sanchez has been better than Nani so far in the WC. He plays like the rest of the Chile team, with fire, and there is no way he has ceded possession as cheaply as Nani in the tournament.
Nani is technically gifted but the simple parts of the game are letting him down at the moment. I have said before that I would rather keep him and sell Valencia and Young but that doesn't look likely. He did look dangerous last night though.
If you include the amount of times Nani has miscontrolled the ball, or been dispossessed by an opposition player I'm sure that particular statistic would be favourable towards Sanchez. It's misleading, Sanchez has been far better than Nani this tournament.
It's no wonder he polarises opinions so much, even last night there were two different Nanis on the pitch. One of them was a real goal threat, always looking to make something happen in the final third. The other one couldn't trap a ball or pass it 5 yards. It's one for the Nani - optimists V pessimists - archive.
I worry about whether we'll ever see him come back to his best at United. Sections of the OT crowd only see the mistakes as well, and they let him know about it. Wingers (normal ones, not the freaks) are always prone to errors and inconsistency. It's almost part of their job description that they can ignore the mistakes and still try (more or less) the same thing again. I think he might have lost that kind of confidence for United. Last night showed that he's still got plenty of ability though, mistakes or not.
I worry about whether we'll ever see him come back to his best at United. Sections of the OT crowd only see the mistakes as well, and they let him know about it. Wingers (normal ones, not the freaks) are always prone to errors and inconsistency. It's almost part of their job description that they can ignore the mistakes and still try (more or less) the same thing again. I think he might have lost that kind of confidence for United. Last night showed that he's still got plenty of ability though, mistakes or not.
He's had a lot of injuries over the last two seasons. Missed a lot of football. I think he was one of portugals better players. It's not the best portugese squad. We know he can do better. Hopefully LVG can get the best out of him but he has to stay fit and sharp.
There's an evangelical tone to Nani's fans in this thread that make any rational discussion very difficult. I didn't watch the game, so can't comment on his performance but it's really fecking weird the way people are getting shouted down for making very reasoned criticisms of what sounds like a fairly standard Nani performance, with the obvious major upside that he scored a goal.
Last night was actually a pretty good example of a lot of Nani performances. Got a goal or an assist, did some really good stuff, but also made some really poor - and at times baffling - choices on the ball. I sometimes think he's one of those players that's very influential when you look at stats alone, but is less convincing when you watch the games. Like Phil Neville said before the game, the talent is there, but something is lacking mentally to bring it all together consistently.
I just wonder what could have changed that for him or whether it was just something innate that he was/is never to overcome. An irony I think is that for someone who has such speed physically, he often needs to slow everything right down; so often when he's on the ball play will come to a complete stop and he'll do that thing of standing in front of one defender, almost motionless, for 5 -7 seconds while he has a wee think about what he wants to do.
Conversely, I think he's the best there is at standing a defender up in front of him and shifting it half a yard to get a fantastic cross in. To get the sort of delivery he does with little backlift, or room to shape the ball is amazing.
If only he did that more. To me it looks as if that 'standing square with a defender' is more for his benefit than anything else, to give himself time to think, which in itself isn't a bad thing but it is perhaps a tad excessive than you'd usually hope for, especially when it means often the impetus of the 'break' may have been lost in the delay. He's very good at taking on the last man, usually, but for me it falls down once he's done that. He'll beat the man and then have a fairly straight forward pass/cross to find and it'll be skied or skewed or he'll unfathomably try and take it round someone else again.
Did you not read my post? It tells you exactly how many times each has been dispossessed by an opposition player
The damage that does goes beyond that particular phase of play IMO. It must be absolutely infuriating to have a team mate that makes so many blatantly wrong or strange decisions. It will also leave players on his team constantly wondering what he's going to do next. Which will have a knock on effect on the confidence and fluidity of the attacking football from the team as a whole. I think that's why he Fergie and Moyes seemed less and less willing to pick him, even though he's quite capable of creating something out of nothing. It's all very well saying you should consistently start someone who can unlock the opposition any moment but that does seem to come at considerable expense.
What's really odd is that he is capable of having games where he has his game head sorted and consistently makes all the right decisions, over 90 minutes. He spent a couple of seasons where this was almost the norm. So it is in there somewhere.
Poor old Fellani! Even his teammates don't care for him!He didn't put anything on twitter when Marouane scored.
I dont actually think Nani is THAT much better than Young these days and Valencia has shown some decent form recently, so Im not sure those arguments are valid anymore anyway.
Personally I think hes lucky to be at a club like United still.
Personally I think hes lucky to be at a club like United still.
Young cant even get near the England squad, and Valencia cant cross to save his life. Nani has been a lot better in the world cup too
I really fail to see the difference between Nani misplacing a pass in middle third or [insert player's name] losing the ball by smacking it into defenders legs when he has 3 or 4 of his player deep into the opposition's box. Neither is good, and in both situations team ends up losing a possession, and I hate that about Nani, but for some reason Nani is stupid and inconsistent for doing that, but [insert player's name] is reliable and consistent player. I am not trying to turn this into Nani vs other players, but most of people who hate Nani for those reasons for some reason think those players are reliable option to have. Weird logic.
You really can't see why it might be more damaging to a team to concede posession cheaply in the middle third than it would be to hit the first defender with a cross? Come on. Think about it.
On the contrary, people are often too lenient with Nani if he shows a loose touch, makes the wrong decision or is dispossessed too easily, as he's a 'flair player', or at least 'takes a risk'. With Valencia he is lambasted for over-cooking crosses or daudling when one-on-one with a fullback and allowing the opposition to regain their shape, he is rightly critisized for that, but Nani should too for the mistakes he makes.
It is silly for someone to deride one and not the other and it does work both ways too. Personally I wouldn't care if we sell Nani, Valencia and in particular Young. The latter simply has to go, but the other two can at least contribute something in some capacity. All three are unreliable however.
Nani only gets away with being loose with the ball if he produces enough in the final third. Nani is usually good at that.
When he doesn't produce and just gives the ball away everyone agrees thats a poor performance.
When he doesn't produce and just gives the ball away everyone agrees thats a poor performance.
No, I don't, especially when in the crossing situation you put many players in the box and end up losing a possession. Of course losing a ball in middle third can be very dangerous, but when is the last time we or Portugal conceeded a goal after Nani losing it in middle third? Last time that(and that wasn't after a poor pass, he simply decided to dribble in front if opposition's box) happened was against Chelsea one or two years ago in the league cup and he was criticised by many here, even by Fergie, but when Rooney did the same thing and Ramires nicked the ball from him and Mata scored on counter for them few games later in much more important league game no one even mentioned it. It was always double standards with Nani for some reason, I have no idea why. Of course he loses the ball more often than some other players but that's because he always tries to create something, I am yet to see him pulling few back passes in a row, he is simply always looking for attacking option. Maybe he should pass it back to his fullback all the time like Valencia and Young do, maybe that's better?
I don't think even his fans disagree that he should be more carefull with his passing and decision making, I quite like him but I agree with that. People who like him hate when people describe his performance like awful because he misplaced passes, and just ignore the rest of his game. And of course he can have that excuse that he is flair player because he is, he is anti-Valencia type of player. He creates more but also messes it up more, but having winger who actually creates something is always better than having a winger who is just good defensively.
Agree on the second part, I would personally like to see Januzaj developing into our first choice winger, and kf that happens, I couldn't care less with other 3.
No, that's not actually true. As you can see from the discussion of his latest performance he didn't lose the ball because he was "always trying to create something". He also lost it because of poor touches and bad decisions. Same shit we've seen many many times in a United shirt.
I really don't get why people find the criticism so hard to understand. It's been explained at length in this thread, fecking countless times. He's a very frustrating player to watch and, presumably, play with. That's why he isn't rated by many people on here as highly as you seem to think he should be.
Well, not always obviously, but most of the time he loses the ball, it's because he is trying to do something positive with it. How many times did you see him losing the ball when he was passing it back to the defenders?
Losing it because of poor touch is really unlike Nani, how many times he loses it because of that? His first touch is better than half of our team, one game like last night's really cannot be rule, but exception because his first touch is quite good in general.
I didn't watch the game, just reading comments, so can't comment on how good his touch was. There are more options available to a winger than taking a pass with a high risk of not reaching it's target or passing it back to a defender. There's a balance to be struck between those two extremes and Nani's biggest flaw is often failing to achieve that balance.
You've obviously come into this thread to have a moan about Valencia, so how about we go there? His crossing has been pants for the last couple of seasons and he's well below his best but he still remains very effective at linking up with Rafael and slipping him through with clever passes around the edges of the box. That's an extremely effective option in any winger's arsenal and proves that there's more to wing-play than simply firing crosses into the box or passing backwards.
On his day, Nani can link up very well with fullbacks. When he's not on his day he is a pain in the arse for his fullback to link up with, as we saw when he inexplicably ran into Coentrao in Portugal's opening game of the WC. That's the sort of thing that makes him such a frustrating footballer.
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Valencia is not even the best Valencia in Ecuador's first eleven right now. If he suddenly becomes the best player in the World Cup he shouldn't receive the endless critique he has already received for the year - instead it is better to focus on the positives that he suddenly is playing good again and dribbling past his players with ease.
Same goes for Young or any player who has previously had a rough time and performed sub-par. If they manage to turn it around it is best to focus on the new thing, which is the improvement - rather than repeat what made them bad in the first place. There has already been 120 pages about how shit Nani is and how he needs to regain form, now that he is outperforming Ronaldo and is the best Portuguese player against all the odds so far in the World Cup it is better to focus on the positive changes he has made.
Some people seems to be wishing for certain players to fail more than they cheer for United and the United players. One thing is to critique players who hasn't played good enough and another is to continue to slag them off while they noticeably make a step up.
I know where Valencia's thread is, if I wanted to talk about his performances I would post there. I came here to moan about people who moan about Nani for similar things they defend Valencia or some other players. As Ekeke posted, Alexis Sanchez has pretty much same negative stats in last two games as Nani, but everyone is still crazy about him and no one is even mentioning those things with him, but here everyone talks just how shit Nani's passing is.
As I said, I like Nani and I agree that his passing and decision making needs to improve, I never said anything different, and I am quite sure many other people who like him agree with that. People just hate other people moaning about it and at the same time praising some other players even though they are quite similar.
Yeah, I'll go with the stats over your eyesight
Why not just read papers the next day to decide who played well? Save time.
I don't have the time to watch 32 games. The stats say Sanchez and Nani gave away the ball at the same rate. Why would I believe someone who says he didn't give the ball away?
Annoyingly, he has moments of utter genius in his boots. You can't go selling players like that.
I won't lie, I think some of you lot defending Nani over last night are batshit crazy. 
Apparently as long as you score a goal and do a couple of nice flicks, it exempts you from any criticism for the rest of 85 minutes you're on the pitch. If you can't do the basic things right, you are well deserving of criticism.
Said it before and I'll say it again, if I was a team-mate of Nani I would feel like screaming at him for some of the downright stupid decisions he makes in matches. Frustrating isn't a strong enough word.
Apparently as long as you score a goal and do a couple of nice flicks, it exempts you from any criticism for the rest of 85 minutes you're on the pitch. If you can't do the basic things right, you are well deserving of criticism.
Said it before and I'll say it again, if I was a team-mate of Nani I would feel like screaming at him for some of the downright stupid decisions he makes in matches. Frustrating isn't a strong enough word.
Bar his goal last night, I thought he was atrocious. I also thought he was poor in the first match.
Nani has gone the same way as his old comparison-pal Babel. Too stupid to be a top player and too stubborn to at least be a disciplined player.
At least he got to shine a bit before he took the plunge.
At least he got to shine a bit before he took the plunge.
This is bang on the money, unfortunately. Some people wonder why some of us prefer Tony over Nani. Well we know he's limited but he usually gives us a consistent string of games doing the basics correctly.
Consistently inconsistent, after 7 years its time to move on, we were so close to getting rid of both him and Ando before we changed manager.
He doesn't need defending after a good performance.I won't lie, I think some of you lot defending Nani over last night are batshit crazy.
Apparently as long as you score a goal and do a couple of nice flicks, it exempts you from any criticism for the rest of 85 minutes you're on the pitch. If you can't do the basic things right, you are well deserving of criticism.
Said it before and I'll say it again, if I was a team-mate of Nani I would feel like screaming at him for some of the downright stupid decisions he makes in matches. Frustrating isn't a strong enough word.
You do for suggesting he didn't have one.
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