Lukaku cost us tonight

[Jed I. Knight]

I don't think you know as much about xG as you think you do if you state, "It only looks at where on the pitch the finish is made." It depends on the model used. There is not a single, unified xG model. Some are more sophisticated than others. Some account for shot location, shot type, assist type, defensive pressure, goalkeeper location, form of attacking play etc.

See, for example, Caley.

Yes, I consider myself corrected in this stance. I checked up on Opta's definition, which I consider to be the ones who define the term at any given time, since they introduced it. You are correct that they use other factors in their regression model apart from just where the shot is made, as per this article. Apologies for making a fuss!

 

[Solius]

Sometimes he plays like Emile Heskey in jeans.

 

[Hammondo]

For who? Even with his wastefulness, it would be madness to play anyone else there.

Martial and Rashford deserve a chance when hes playing this badly. They couldn't do any worse.

 

[goin4glory]

Lukaku isn't good enough for a club with our ambitions. His link up play is non existent and he actually goes hiding rather than take up spaces where he can get the ball to feet. That being said I was fine with us signing him because of the injury to Ibra and Rooney being moved on, realistically he was the best available striker but ultimately we should be looking at elite level strikers to replace him.

 

[AbusementPark]

even if his chance had went in, it would have only papered over the cracks. In the second half we still could have conceded the goals we did, Spurs would have to push for an equaliser and would have exposed us at the back. We potentially could have scored more if he had scored his chance but to blame him for that loss is not correct.

 

[TMDaines]

Yes, I consider myself corrected in this stance. I checked up on Opta's definition, which I consider to be the ones who define the term at any given time, since they introduced it. You are correct that they use other factors in their regression model apart from just where the shot is made, as per this article. Apologies for making a fuss!

No worries. Glad to have helped.

 

[scholesyboy18]

Lukaku isn't good enough for a club with our ambitions. His link up play is non existent and he actually goes hiding rather than take up spaces where he can get the ball to feet. That being said I was fine with us signing him because of the injury to Ibra and Rooney being moved on, realistically he was the best available striker but ultimately we should be looking at elite level strikers to replace him.

Exactly. He can't create chance for himself, cannot bring others into play and for a striker , he is very poor on the ball. He was a good signing at the time we signed to do a job. But for club if we are ambitious enough to win titles, then he is definitely not good enough. But right now utd have problems all over the pitch, so may be not the top priority to replace him.

 

[ObieDeMoon]

He cost us against Brighton too. I like Lukaku but he's lucky our defenders are a bunch of morons otherwise he'd be getting criticized more.

To be fair to the big lad he should have a partner up top to play off.... We have not had a strike partnership for years. Increases competition betebet the strikers too... Sticking him up top on his own yes he will score a certain amount but with a partner to share the responsibility and build a rapport with, it would help us alot.

 

[Stacks]

Wow people being harsh on Lukaku on here...

The guy's 25 - a few years away from his peak.

Went all the way (kinda) in the WC - so physically needs to warm back up into form/sharpness.

Yes he missed that chance the other night - but class strikers miss glorious chances now and again. Happened with Ruud, Rooney, etc. etc.

For a typical striker he would be approachin peak but Lukaku has been playing since 16 so will peak and decline far sooner. He will most likely lose a yard or 2 of pace in 3 years.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Just like Rashford or Lingard he doesn't seem to be in control at all when surrounded by defenders. At Everton, he played a lot on the break and his pace helped him out against CBs but our slow passing means he is always crowded out. But he is the focal point of our attack so I expect him to score 15+ goals this season but he won't be a world class striker IMHO.

 

[Pscholes18]

Just another player Utd got fleeced on.

 

[Bastian]

Not sure if I'm remembering this correctly, but he may have missed great chances in every game he's played so far. Maybe bar Basel, not sure. I remember at least the first 3 games in the league where he missed sitters and then tonight he missed a one vs one, then headed over the bar with the keeper stranded and fell in the box when the ball was falling to him.

We've got all our eggs in the Lukaku basket and as much as I like him, he isn't anywhere near clinical enough to carry the attacking burden of a team aiming to compete.

We really need another option up there to share the burden and have the ability to mix things up.

 

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

He's a donkey. So bad.

 

[Fully Fledged]

It doesn’t matter how many chances he misses Jose won’t drop him.

He can play as bad as he wants without fear of being dropped.

 

[kouroux]

It doesn’t matter how many chances he misses Jose won’t drop him.

He can play as bad as he wants without fear of being dropped.

Same goes for Matic

 

[#07]

Lukaku just makes me roll my eyes. If he had been in the kind of form Van Persie hit in 2012/13 we’d be cruising at the moment.

 

[Judas]

He tries, I can see that he cares, and in a squad where trying seems almost lacking at times, it's appreciated. I just think the issue that has always been there is he's simply not good enough, he's not consistent enough, and I'm doubtful he ever will be.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Same goes for Matic

Yeah doesn’t matter how bad he plays he’s always on the team sheet.

 

[kouroux]

Yeah doesn’t matter how bad he plays he’s always on the team sheet.

What stunned is how he was directly as a starter for Tottenham, with zero preseason and an ankle surgery.
I like him a lot but he is being ruined big time.

 

[Treble]

Lukaku just makes me roll my eyes. If he had been in the kind of form Van Persie hit in 2012/13 we’d be cruising at the moment.

Imagine if he was like prime Luis Ronaldo. We'd be favourites for the title now. Well, not really. The problem goes deeper than Lukaku and points towards the man who signed him.

 

[Fully Fledged]

What stunned is how he was directly as a starter for Tottenham, with zero preseason and an ankle surgery.
I like him a lot but he is being ruined big time.

I agree. We overplay a handful of players which doesn’t do them any good or the other players who play in their positions.

 

[Red Star One]

He's not the biggest of our worries, but he'll cost us so many times in the future some will be truly surprised. Not reliable enough, unfortunately - since I really like the man.

 

[ZAGREB RED]

Him missing chances in games that people then say United would have won had he converted them is a bit unfair on the guy. I think he does look a bit limited at times in matches but the problems at United are throughout the club and far deeper than the main striker missing the target a few times.

 

[PlayerOne]

Same goes for Matic

Yup, Mou clearly has his favourites. No matter how badly they perform they will play the next game and get no criticism, it's all pretty annoying too. But that's just how Mou operates, did the same thing with other clubs too.

 

[ZAGREB RED]

Yup, Mou clearly has his favourites. No matter how badly they perform they will play the next game and get no criticism, it's all pretty annoying too. But that's just how Mou operates, did the same thing with other clubs too.

To be fair, a lot of managers have their "favourite sons" who always play despite their form. I get your point, but Mourinho isn't the only one who does this, although he is maybe a bit more guilty of it than most.

 

[PlayerOne]

To be fair, a lot of managers have their "favourite sons" who always play despite their form. I get your point, but Mourinho isn't the only one who does this, although he is maybe a bit more guilty of it than most.

Yup, that's fair. You would expect those players to repay the faith he places in them but those players are costing us points and underperforming badly so it's pretty infuriating as a fan to watch.

You could even argue those players are not good enough for Mou to have them as his favourites.

 

[Greck]

To be fair, a lot of managers have their "favourite sons" who always play despite their form. I get your point, but Mourinho isn't the only one who does this, although he is maybe a bit more guilty of it than most.

And tbf that kind of inflexibility is why a lot of managers don't last once things go south. That's why there will only be one SAF.

 

[Ainu]

Yup, Mou clearly has his favourites. No matter how badly they perform they will play the next game and get no criticism, it's all pretty annoying too. But that's just how Mou operates, did the same thing with other clubs too.

The biggest problem is that there's no other striker at the club that Mourinho trusts in that center forward role. If we had such a player, he'd drop Lukaku. Of course, it's his own fault for failing to bring such a player into the club.

 

[PlayerOne]

And tbf that kind of inflexibility is why a lot of managers don't last once things go south. That's why there will only be one SAF.

Yeah but SAF was guilty of having favourites too. Difference being, he placed his faith in the right players and knew how to get the best out of them, something I'm not sure Mourinho knows how to do atm.

The biggest problem is that there's no other striker at the club that Mourinho trusts in that center forward role. If we had such a player, he'd drop Lukaku. Of course, it's his own fault for failing to bring such a player into the club.

Yup, pretty mental we only have one striker in the squad. But this is where the very best managers earn their money, coming up with a solution no one else would is what makes a good manager a great one. SAF did it all the time, O'Shea and Giggs in midfield comes to mind. That's what the best managers do.

What we're doing now isn't working out, why not try something new? Not like it gets worse than what we're currently seeing.

 

[TheFlagStaysDown]

Yup, Mou clearly has his favourites. No matter how badly they perform they will play the next game and get no criticism, it's all pretty annoying too. But that's just how Mou operates, did the same thing with other clubs too.

That’s alsoa big sogn of his falling out with other players, so he can only rely on those, Ffs who would need mcTominay around?

 

[Mike Smalling]

I think it might make sense to give him a bit of a rest soon. Of course it is early in the season, but except for the opener against Leicester he has played every single minute for us this season. He did not exactly have a full summer to recuperate, so I find it a bit strange that he did not get a least some rest in the league cup. When you then consider his performances as well, I would say that this is questionable management.

 

[Beagle]

Him missing chances in games that people then say United would have won had he converted them is a bit unfair on the guy. I think he does look a bit limited at times in matches but the problems at United are throughout the club and far deeper than the main striker missing the target a few times.

Sure the problems run far deeper than him. But if everything else were to be fixed and the rest of the team were playing to their potential this guy would still be our weakest link. Not a ball player, not a target man and not even a clinical goal scorer. What is he supposed to be?

 

[reddaz71]

Probably the worst Utd striker I've seen since Gary Birtles!

 

[Murray3007]

surely there is no one who really believes Lukaku will ever truly be good enough for a top top club. I don't think all the blame should be on him but his overall performances have been poor for the club. first touch and passing is terrible majority of the time and his perfomances v the better teams last season were so poor.

 

[Greck]

Yeah but SAF was guilty of having favourites too. Difference being, he placed his faith in the right players and knew how to get the best out of them, something I'm not sure Mourinho knows how to do atm.



Yup, pretty mental we only have one striker in the squad. But this is where the very best managers earn their money, coming up with a solution no one else would is what makes a good manager a great one. SAF did it all the time, O'Shea and Giggs in midfield comes to mind. That's what the best managers do.

What we're doing now isn't working out, why not try something new? Not like it gets worse than what we're currently seeing.

SAF always shook things up when things started slipping. He didn't stay loyal to non-performers for long.

 

[AKDevil]

Can see this thread reappearing regularly on match day this season.
£75m and not good enough. What a damning indictment that is on so many things, including the state of transfer fees these days.

 

[sunama]

The biggest problem is that there's no other striker at the club that Mourinho trusts in that center forward role. If we had such a player, he'd drop Lukaku. Of course, it's his own fault for failing to bring such a player into the club.

Another CF would've cost a lot of money, which Woodward was unwilling to spend.

 

[montpelier]

Well... if you want to play nicey-nice football with him constantly involved I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

He wants to be the finisher (last man in the move) or he thrives where there is space & can get defenders isolated 1 v 1.

I don't think it's controversial to say that isn't happening on a regular basis.

His weaknesses are very obvious but there is another side to things. He needs support in terms of how the team plays & a set up to serve him what he needs.

We might not like what that means but currently isn't a lot of fun either is it?

 

[harms]

Imagine if he was like prime Luis Ronaldo. We'd be favourites for the title now. Well, not really. The problem goes deeper than Lukaku and points towards the man who signed him.

I know that I'm derailing the thread, but yes, really — that Inter team was entirely dysfunctional and he was very much the example of a one-man team.

I feel bad for Lukaku, but it's hard to see him ever becoming truly world class. With van Persie, for example, you always knew that when he overcomes his injury issues, he'll be a top striker — while Lukaku peaked earlier and it's unlikely that he will become much better. Perhaps he'll improve his decision-making, but in the end it'll probably won't be enough.

It's quite unlucky that we were forced to buy a starting center forward when the market was so poor (I can't think of a single realistic target who would've been significantly better thank Lukaku, since Kane, Cavani and Lewandowski were practically unattainable).

 

[Ainu]

Another CF would've cost a lot of money, which Woodward was unwilling to spend.

Perhaps if Mourinho wasn't chasing another CB after having already bought two for a ton of money and proceeding to declare them not good enough, Woodward might've considered spending more money.